| Author |
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Ulendo
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:52 pm: | 
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you're apparently overpaid for your opinion |
Xbswede
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 10:09 pm: |
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"Race ECM doesn't increase the hard limit, but I think it gets rid of the soft limit(s)."
They show to be identical on the XB12 when viewed in ECM SPY. |
Hexangler
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:46 am: |
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They show to be identical on the XB12 when viewed in ECM SPY.
Meaning the the soft and hard limit have the same value in the race version?
Not to get into sharing trade secretes, but I think it would work to just have the top limit.
Hex
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Xbswede
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 01:06 am: |
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"Meaning the the soft and hard limit have the same value in the race version?"
Yes. |
Zpyro
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 02:36 am: |
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ulendo, calling us "boo hooing naysayers" is a bit of an a$shole comment. excuse us for telling somebody to avoid doing something that can very easily destroy their engine.
erik buell didn't just get a stock engine, and raise the rev limiter just to see how high it would go until it blew up. im pretty surehe engineered things and made sure that components were up to snuff before running an engine to a higher redline. if you have the funds to blow up engines and thoroughly test them, more power to you. it's not something a regular enthusiast should be trying, unless he likes riding the bus
(Message edited by zpyro on May 01, 2008) |
Id073897
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 04:12 am: |
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ulendo, calling us "boo hooing naysayers" is a bit of an a$shole comment. excuse us for telling somebody to avoid doing something that can very easily destroy their engine.
Just out of interest: how many carbed engines whithout any rev limiter besides the "built in" did you blow up? None? One? Tens?
For about a century just some red numbers at the tach were suitable enough to keep people away from destroying their bike by overrevving it. Did this all change? Are motorbike drivers so stupid now, that they need some technical means for everything to prevent them from doing silly things? Did they all retard to pure idiots by too much car driving?
Questions, lots of questions ...
Regards,
Gunter |
Spike
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 08:03 am: |
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It seems there's a lot of speculation going on considering there's plenty of actual test data available. Nearly every weekend Buell racers are out there hammering away on their motors with all sorts of configurations and varying rev limits, many of whom have probably decided on a risk/return level that is acceptable for them and their budget.
Ask them what rev limit they run on the XB9 crank.
Ask them what rev limit they run on the XB12 crank.
Then ask them how often they split the cases to replace the crank. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 09:30 am: |
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The whole thing about these motors is that the bottom end is notoriously "weak" at high revs. The top end without re-springing the valves can also be a problem.
Historically, it has been a matter of paying attention to the tach to prevent the motor from being over-revved. In a crowd at speed, it's often not practical. I'd say that GENERALLY, having rev limits have helped more than hurt.
In truth, if you set a rev limit to 10,000 and never exceed 7500 with a disciplined right wrist, your motor will very likely last as long (and maybe longer) than one that is constantly hitting the rev limiter at 7500. I don't have that kind of discipline.
If you can afford it, you CAN get more power just by spinning up faster... at a price. Splitting cases are rebuilding bottom ends is not trivial. Without modifications (Hals or Darkhorse Crankworks), you are just going to be tearing into the bottom end of the motor that much more often.
The fact that you CAN get complete control of the engine with ECMSpy is an excellent thing for the hard-core wrench/hobbyist... but hitting the rev limit on a stock motor at higher RPMs doesn't do the motor a lotta good.
Just look before you leap. I've seen a number of cases that have been split by a broken connecting rod and have also seen the results of the crank end bearings tearing the cases. You might say that "yeah but these were racing motors" - but I'd reply that as a privateer, ANY racing expense (time or money) is painful. Buying a new crank, cases, connecting rods is NEVER cheap - even with a discount.
And again to quote Hailwood:
quote:The throttle works both ways.
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Point_doc
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:15 am: |
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A small discussion about allowing the motor spin faster...
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/356621.html?1209399562
The biggest bang for the dollar that I have felt is to remove the excess weight that the stock primary puts on the crank. Once I removed the weight my motor started spooling up so fast that my stock motor was RUNNING away from other Buell riders. They were complaining about "how quick" my bike was!!!
(Message edited by point_doc on May 01, 2008) |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 02:22 pm: |
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quote:Erik Buell didn't just get a stock engine, and raise the rev limiter just to see how high it would go until it blew up. im pretty surehe engineered things and made sure that components were up to snuff before running an engine to a higher redline.
I bet he did on occasion just slap something together and run it to failure (though it was probably highly instrumented at the time).
The difference is that he didn't come back on BadWeb after the fact whining about unreliable sporty motors, or go to his dealer asking for a rebuild under warranty...
I put my XB9SX back to as close to stock as I can get (I can't quite bring myself to give up the honking airbox mod). The bike can still, 95% of the time, do far more then I have the skills to support. |
Ulendo
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 11:38 pm: |
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did I comment on user beware - I think I tried to demonstrate that I have far more technical resources than the average rider, and specifically said its best left for a professional tuner, and tuning shop.
is my motor stock - one is, one isnt. kind of a hint there, dont you think...
do I care if I blow it up - not at all. I have the resources to experiment, thus the second, non original motor is my play toy
how often do I split the cases - I split my 'road' case once a year, to do a full cleaning an inspection...as in my mind should all riders. My play case gets split when I feel I need to check it - and yes, thats a lot more often than once a year.
am I on here boo-hooing - hardly: thats why I've got a play motor. Sounds like a few folks are boo hooing others HAVING the resources to play, however.
am I telling anyone on here how to run their bike - no, but the naysayers I referenced certainly cant claim to be that polite in return. As the old saying goes "if the shoe fits, wear it".... |
Id073897
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 02:24 am: |
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Yeah, I do remember when we did the first pre-release of EcmSpy in Germany. The self-styled "consumer protectors" augured hundreds of blown engines ...
Well, I do not know of a single one in more than a year and some people do use EcmSpy to it's full possibilities.
And, how could it be otherwise, most of the "alerters" were distributors of VDSTS, DL, TFI, RapidBike or whatever. Hoho, but I'm not deaf. I can hear which way the wind is blowing. :-)
Regards,
Gunter |
Xcephasx
| | Posted on Friday, May 02, 2008 - 03:25 pm: |
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wouldn't it be safe just to bump the soft limits up to the hard limits? not pushing it past spec there... just removing the warning spark misses. i don't typically ride at those sort of RPM's but on a half dozen occasions have bounced it while over shifting. kind of annoying. it's not even to the red at that point. |
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