| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
>>>>I'm sure they're getting sick of me bugging them Negative. It's their job.  | ||
| Spiderman |
Darth, No one has made any determination yet. Bearing play is in shape, run out is less than stated above from the other dealer as stated above, Dave (the tech working on your bike has to contact your Buell tech to see if there is any other test I still have to talk to him to see his other findings. BTW I was using a twisted tripple clamp as an example. Also did you ever contact MDOT about covering your damage???? | ||
| Blake |
Jim, What makes you say that bearings are not covered under warranty? | ||
| Jim_witt |
OOps, Sorry about that, I keep thinking about MY personal situation which involved the extended warranty trip'er'roo. Out'a here, -JW:>  | ||
| Darthane |
No, and I will not unless I'm told that I have to eat the cost of a wheel. | ||
| Bud |
Just checked a few washer/ drive bushings, I noticed that the free play on the badly worn rotor side was less than on the good side. I think ill solve my problem with some new one’s ( at least give it a go ) The ware on theme give’s it just a mm. Less play And with the rotor moving around, That some time’s the pulse is gone, and most off the time it’s there  | ||
| Xb9 |
How many miles on those puppies? | ||
| Bud |
9000 Mile isch | ||
| Bud |
I made up my mind. I have called the dealer, for a complete rotor ass. First word off the dealer !! “Ill will order the rotor for you , but you it will cost € 240,00” ! there is not a rotor is holland in stock ! I have asked ! bummer. ! I have to pay fore it ! bummer. But I can understand that, as it is a brake part and due to ware. but, where is the line for the decision if it’s warranty or not ??? a mate’s bike ( X1 02 ) , got a new and fresh rotor because it was warped @ 15,000 miles. Heck he even got the brake pad’s for warranty and the where worn-out ?? I could not believe that, my mouth dropped open. He got every thing for warranty !! Leaking header gasket as well. Don’t get me wrong , I’m happy for him. But I really like to now, were the limit is for warranty Gr,m | ||
| Darthane |
Apparently it is case by case for something that's not explicitly covered by a warranty. See if your dealer would contact their warranty rep? Oh, and they did get sick of me bugging them, Court. LOL edited by darthane on June 26, 2003 | ||
| Darthane |
All right, finally a happy dealer story. My 'bolt's been in at American since two Tuesdays ago. This past Tuesday I called them up to find out what was going on with it. I spoke to the technician who was working on it, Dave. He was very helpful and informative, and was the first person who's looked at the bike that gave me the impression he actually cared about what was wrong and how to fix it. Kudos to him. Basically he told me that he didn't have a clue what the deal was. He'd measured and checked pretty much everything that could have possibly affected the front end in that way. He told me that he'd measured the lateral runout to be a mere 0.010" and the radial runout to be only 0.008". He could find nothing wrong with the rotor or brakes, suspension, etc. He did tell me that the steering head bearings were 1.5lbs too tight on the pull test, but adjusting them made no difference that he could tell. I said, well, then if it's all the same to you, I'll take it back and I'll order a new front wheel for it and be done with it (the same thing I was going to do before I was told to return the bike to a dealer). He told me that he was waiting to hear back from Buell. Fine, unless they has something that they need you to do, I'll pick the bike up tonight. I get a rather enigmatic IM from Spidey later that day telling me that I'm getting a new rim and I'm 'all set'. OK, fine, so I let things sit for another couple days. I figured it would take them at least three or four days to get their hands on a wheel assembly. Yesterday I called back just to make sure everything's moving along (I've said it before, I'll never deny it - I'm an impatient bastard). I talked to a couple service reps before getting to talk to Dave again, who told me that not only was I getting a new wheel asm, but also a new rotor asm and a new tire! To add icing to the cake, it was done and I could go and ride him home. The old wheel et al is going back to Harley - Dave never did find out what the problem was but it's gone now, no pulsation and no head shake that I can feel/see. I know I can be a pain in the ass, but I meant it when I said I appreciated what everyone involved has done (sans the first dealer I went to -=snort=-). Through it all, it cost me: Dealer #1(Triple S Buell in Morgantown, WV): $147, replaced wheel bearings (warranteed) and front brake pads. Insisted there was nothing wrong with my bike feeling like it would fall apart under brake load. Dealer #2(Battlefield Buell in Gettysburg, PA): $57, one hour's worth of labor. Admitted to both conditions that I'd noted, checked wheel and rebalanced it, out the door I went, both problems still there. My fault, not theirs, as I could not/would not leave the bike there long enough to really get into it. Dealer #3(American Buell in Ann Arbor, MI): $70, one hour labor. Replaced entire front wheel et al. After 2 1/2 weeks, he's finally fixed. Now I have to get used to riding him again and not the Blast! Bryan | ||
| Bud |
 happy for you, gr,m | ||
| Xb9 |
Brian, Great to hear it is resolved. Hope Buell works up a cause/solution to this seemingly isolated but reoccurring problem. After 6K on my new wheel assy, I can feel the vibration coming back. I need to take some measurements.... | ||
| Darthane |
LOL...yeah, there must be SOMETHING wrong, just no one seems to know what it is. Well, hopefully they can glean something from the wheel off my bike and will let...well, I'd say us but I doubt that...dealers?...know about it. | ||
| Anonymous |
We know we are just not at liberty to discuss. | ||
| Darthane |
That's cool...I'm sure sooner or later we'll get let into the loop, then. Cheers! | ||
| Bud |
Reminder to my self, Keep the bill fore the rotor, and keep the old rotor at hand Maybe, perhaps…….. I now 1 thing for shore, if the new rotor warps the next 8k miles. There’s gona be a double disk conversion, over here. Gr,m | ||
| Blake |
Darthane, Would you please fill us in on the analysis, findings, disposition and resolution of your pulsing front brake problem? | ||
| Darthane |
Blake, I'd love to, but I'm not sure just how much more info I can give that hasn't already been listed. I'll give you a rundown here of everything that I peronally checked as well as any little tidbit that the various dealers let me in on. The brake pulsation itself became most evident riding around SE Ohio with XB9 the first Saturday and Sunday of the NE Tour. I normally don't get the chance to ride my bike that aggresively, and I think that's why it became so obvious to me then. After a half day or so, with it seemingly getting worse, I decided to run off to the second dealer stop and se what they could tell me. This was in Morgantown, WV. At first I was told that it was due to me having low air pressure in the tire (it had dropped from 38psi hot to about 24psi hot over the course of the day, apparently). They filled it up, I went for a spin and reported that it hadn't fixed anything (not that I expected that to). Was told to bring the bike back in the next day, which I did. After examination, they found a blown seal on my front left-side wheel bearing. I already had the orange-seal bearings in place. They replaced them, and I also had them replace the front brake pads since they already had the wheel off. Tech rode it, insisted it was 'like any other bike he'd ridden'. I took off for a test and no dice. Problem still there, and I had to run off to the next stop. Along the way to the next dealer is when I noticed the head shake. At constant speed, between 45-55mph seemed to be worst. The bar ends would oscillate over 1". I personally felt (and as time went on things seemed to confirm this) that the new brake pads were the cause of this,since the rotor had that much less room to move round in. I could very well be wrong. When I got to the next dealer in Gettysburg they rode it and confirmed both conditions, head shake and brake pulse. They checked the runout and rebalanced the front wheel (1/2oz out of balance). Problems still there. Kudos to Battlefield for not tossing me out on my ass. I was a little short with them. Yes, I did apologize. I spoke to a couple people about the matter and was given several things to try out. I 'reset' the front brakes by leaving a zip tie around them at night (I believe this helps the piston's retraction distance? I can't recall exactly). I reset my suspension settings to make sure they hadn't been tampered with. I went to 5 bars front preload (was at 4.5) in an effort to lower the nose of the bike. Neither of these seemed to help. Unfortunately I could not get a dealer to check my steering head bearings for me (at least, not without them keeping me far longer than I would hve thought necessary), which was something else I was told to check. I decided after speaking to a third dealer as well as a Ducati dealer in Maine to just ride it home and take it in to American where they could keep it until it was fixed. Along the way I stopped in Rochester to do a little more testing. A friend and I pulled the front wheel and swapped tires on it to no avail. While balancing the wheel (just the wheel, no tire on it yet) we agreed that the wheel itself was wobbling. We had no way to measure it, that was just visually. Once we reinstalled the wheel we could hear the pulsation in the brke just by spinning the front wheel (the rotor rubbing on the pads intermittently). Ended up with a used D207 on the bike for the rest of the trip home. When I came home, the following day I went to American and explained the problem. I was told simply, that H-D doesn't warranty wheels. Very well, I left and was set to go buy a new wheel assembly myself. I called someone that I'd told I would keep updated on the matter and was told to take the bike back to the dealer, which I did. On the way there I noticed that the head shake had diminished quite a bit from how I first noticed it, down to perhaps 1/4"-3/8" (again, I think this was from the brake pads wearing in and allowing the rotor more freedom - this was well over 2200 miles later). The tech there checked everything under the sun related to the front end, and from what I was told the only 'problem' he found was the steering head bearings being out of spec by 1.5lbs, which he fixed to no avail. Total info from first dealer: Low PSI in front tire, not the culprit. Blown bearing seal, not the culprit. New brake pads, not the culprit. Lateral runout on wheel measured less than 0.020", ditto for rotor. Total info from second dealer: Lateral runout of wheel measured to be 0.020", ditto for the rotor. Wheel rebalanced, not the culprit. Total info from third dealer: Lateral runout of wheel 0.010", ditto the rotor. Radial runout of wheel, 0.008". Brake pads fine, wheel bearings fine, front forks/suspension fine. Steering head bearings 1.5lbs out of spec, fixed, did not solve pulsation. Basically there was nothing wrong with the bike. I was going to pick it up the following Tuesday after I'd dropped it off (one week), after speaking to the tech and him telling me the above. However later that day I was told that I was 'all set' and the bike was given a new front wheel asm, rotor asm, and OEM front tire. The old parts were sent back to H-D/Buell. I spoke with the tech again that day and he told me that he was still stumped as to what caused it, and that he was hoping H-D would let him know what they found upon examining the wheel asm. An Anony posted here that they do indeed know what it was, but cannot say at this time. Aside from lost time on the 'bolt, I definitely came out on top with this one, and I'll say it again - thanks to everyone involved, and there were a lot of you. If I missed anything or wasn't clear, ask and I'll try to clarify. As to the bike now - it's all fine. There is no discernable head shake at any speed, constant, accel, or decel, and the front brake pulsation is gone. Unfortunately I now have one very shiny front wheel and one very dingy back wheel! | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi I am Giorgio from Italy I have a XB9R with the same problem of front wheel vibration when brake-on, the Dealer say that is normal, but for my this vibration is very dangerous !!! Can you explain me the solution of this problem or if Buell recall front rotor or wheel. Scuse me for very bad English Thanks a lot Giorgio | ||
| Mikej |
Your dealer should spend more time pinching the pages of the service bulletins than pinching the rumps of tourists. It is not "normal". Braking should be smooth, period. | ||
| Darthane |
Unfortunately I can't tell you precisely what the problem is, nor can I even tell you which component necessarily needs replacing. I received an entirely new wheel assembly, including a new rotor and tire. I believe others on the board with similar problems have replaced only the wheel assembly and had it solve their issues (XB9, Shazam?). In no way should brake pulsation be considered normal...like Mike said, it should be smooth, period. On my bike the pulsation progressed to a point where I was no longer comfortable braking hard, and that's not a good thing at all! Bryan | ||
| Blake |
Giorgio, Have your dealer check disk runout and wheel runout (out of plane wobble) versus the specifications in the manual. You might also check your brake pads to ensure they are wearing evenly. Sometimes swapping them left for right will help. Some questions to help us help you... 1. Have you had any off road experiences, accidents, or encounters with obstacles that might have imperceptably tweaked (moved) the front end alignment? 2. Is the vibration worse when cornering in one direction versus the other? I mean, is the vibration worse when braking and turning left or when turning right, or is it equally noticeable for each direction? 3. Is the vibration worse for hard braking or for moderate braking? 4. Does vibration occur always or only after brake becomes hot? 5. How many miles on your XB9R? 6. How many miles on the front tire? 7. Did your XB9R go through the wheel bearing upgrade? 8. What was the last service or maintenance performed on the bike prior to you noticing the vibration? 9. Did the vibration become gradually worse or did it appear initially already very noticeable? Your English is great! Thanks, hope we can help you figure this out. PS: Please avoid using the anonymous option. It prevents us from visiting your user profile information. The anonymous option is intended for people who would otherwise not be able to post due to professional and related reasons. | ||
| Giorgioloda |
Dear Blake thanks for your reply ! 1 no off road experience or accident 2-3-4 Vibration only when the rotor is hot and in the hard braking ( over 70 miles/h ) 5 8000 miles 6 the front tires is new ( dunlop 207 RR ) 7 yes the wheel bearing is replaced ( orange seal ) 8 befor the second service maintenance 9 no the vibration appear very noticeable I have look all post of this problem and now I measure the dimension tollerance for wheel and rotor, the brake pad are new and in good conditions. This XB9R is of my wife I have a XB9S and the hard brake-on on this bike is very very good !!! I hope to solve this problem Thank a lot Giorgio p.s. I am writing not in anonymous, I am login on this forum whit my username....I hope is all ok ! | ||
| Blake |
Here is an idea... Try swapping wheels between the two bikes. If the vibration continues on your wife's XB9R, the problem is then known to be outside the wheel. If not and if the vibration then occurs on your XB9S, you know it is the wheel/brake-disk assembly. This is a frustrating problem. I hope your dealer will behave honorably and help you find the solution. The fact that you say it appeared all of a sudden points to some distinct event or factor that affected the front wheel/brake. I wish I could help you more. Good luck and let us know what you resolution you find. Ciao, Blake PS: I mentioned the anonymous option because you had, apparently accidentally, used it in your previous post. No worries. Thanks for understanding. | ||
| Giorgioloda |
Thanks a lot Blake ! Swappig wheels is a good idea.....but if the two wheels vibrates...Arghhhhhhhhhh!!!!! In this case I have two problems than one !!! LOL !!! In this days I want to solve the problem. See you later Giorgio  | ||
| Giorgioloda |
Yesterday I checked the tollerance of the front rotor and wheel of XB9R and XB9S. All dimensions are very good and are in the spec. tollerance Rotor max. planar distorsion 0.3mm ( 0.011" ) Wheel max. planar distorsion 0.45mm ( 0.017" ) So I checked all components of forks axle bearing of triple tree, oil brake line and all is ok. I have change the OEM brake pads with a new pad not original ( sintergrip Ferodo ) and test the bike, I have ride for 50 miles with slow brake-on for adapting the new pads on rotor and a little hard brake at the low speed. After this procedure I test the bike in hard brake on at Hight speed and.....WOW the vibration is disappared !!! Now I dont Know if this is the right solution for everybody. After this test ride I look the rotor surface and notice that there are no omogeneus surface brake contact, so now I checked the thikness of the rotor. Today I make a long test on the bike and I hope to confirm the good result of first test. See you and thank a lot Giorgio P.s. This is a very interesting forum !!! Very compliments !!! CIAO From ITALIA | ||
| Court |
Giorgio Thanks for the update and I am happy to learn your problem is solved. I hope you continue to join us here at this forum. I have several friends with motociclisimo and I know how passionate your countrymen are about their motorbikes. All the best, Court Canfield New York City | ||
| Bud |
Giorgio, Do you have a partnumber off the ferodo pads ?? I don’t think it will work for me, because my rotor is very badly worn and warped. But I like to have the number for future reverence. I now there’s a lot off different brakepads en friction material, ( working @ a volvo dealership in now watt brake pads can do, for example the rear brake pad’s on an V70 awd , there was a modification on the pads because the original one’s was causing a vibration. Put some new pad’s in and the vibration is gone, and stay’s away !! Btw. I thought that the buell oem’s ware already sinter material. Gr,m | ||
| Giorgioloda |
Bud, I have tested the XB9R all the week end and all vibrations on the front wheel is disappared. I have checked the thikness of the rotor in same points and is ok. Now in this case I think that the problem are the pad braking. On my XB9S I use OEM brake pad with no problem and satisfaction. If you want tested the Ferodo pads this is the code ( for Italy ) FDB2145ST Syntergrip. Thanks a lot Giorgio |
