| Author | Message | ||
     1324 |
I apologize in advance for the long post...but it is all pretty relevant. After a long winter of waiting for decent weather and some mods, I made it out for a very short ride yesterday. New tires, front pads, powdercoated bits, 1125R turn signals, LED flasher, home-made open airbox, 06 belt conversion, etc. The plan was to road test the bike and scrub the tires in. Once I was happy with the tires and brakes, I planned to go home and swap the old airbox/filter for the new ones so I can do a decent back to back butt dyno comparison. That was the plan, anyway. By the time I swapped the intake and got the bike back together, the problems started. Or more aptly, the bike wouldn't start. Puzzled, I took the seat back off to check for fuses, relays, etc. Nope, they all look good. Wheeled the bike back into the garage and started looking around. Voltage was a bit low, but nothing drastic. Maybe low 12V range...can't remember to be honest, but it wasn't alarmingly low. To be safe, I hooked the bike back up to the battery tender. The fuel pump wouldn't cycle and the starter wouldn't crank. Lights worked, but dash didn't. I let it charge for a couple minutes and tried again. Not surprisingly, the bike started. However, I revved the bike quick to see how it felt and it died promptly. Huh, maybe the battery is shot and it can't deliver the current needed to run higher engine RPM. It did start kinda slow... At that point, I didn't have much time to troubleshoot due to the holiday, but I noticed that the turn signals wouldn't work any more. Tail light worked, along with low and high beam. The kicker? The dash still wouldn't light, the gauges didn't sweep, and the LCD panel didn't power up. BUT, the high beam indicator light was illuminated with the low beam on. Switch on the high beam (either with switch or pass to flash button), and the high beam illumintes...but the indicator light shut off. WEIRD. At that point, I didn't have any time left to troubleshoot. So, I called a Buell dealer 2 hours away that I could get a battery from since I was passing through to visit family. Although the voltage seemed appropriate, I knew the battery was original (bike was produced 9/02), so I figured the battery made sense...although the symptoms were very atypical. Well, I bought said battery, and the problem still persists. I've removed the air box to check for pinched harnesses or whatever, but nothing is out of place. All fuses are good, and all three relays in the fuse block are operating as they should. I still have no turn signals, the flasher relay doesn't cycle (I swapped back to stock to no avail), and the high beam indicator is still reversed. Oh, and did I mention that the gauges sweep when you turn the ignition switch to OFF? Well, they do. Needless to say, I'm a bit puzzled. I didn't have much time to troubleshoot this weekend, but I need to do some work. I'll admit I'm no electrical engineer, but I consider myself fairly competent with basic electric circuits like those found on motorcycles. I've had to diagnose my share of problems of the years, but this one sounds funny right from the get go. To be fine one minute and then this screwed up the next is mind-blowing. I don't believe in coincidences, so I've double and triple checked everything I could have affected. ECM maybe? I have no theory as to how that would have failed, but honestly, I'm at a loss. I'm going to pour of the circuit diagrams tonight, but I'm starting off a little confused. Sooooo, I apologize for the long post, but has anyone experienced anything similar? I enjoy challenges, but why do these problems always rear their head at the start of the riding season? If only this happened 2 months ago... | ||
| Jos51700 |
Grounds, grounds, grounds. What did you powder coat? | ||
| Jos51700 |
Also, try playing with the harness at the LH side of the steering head. There is a revised guide in that location, and I've seen bikes break wires in that area. I've even seen bikes sweep the needles with no key, and noone touching the bike. The Buell tech guys were looking at a handling issue on one of the first Uly's, and we all saw it happen. Thus, the revised guide. I would also try sub'bing a new ignition switch, just to see... | ||
| 1324 |
I'll check into that harness guide tonight. Do you know specifically which harness connector it is? LH controls or RH? I'd try the ignition switch, but I don't have one. Short of checking it for operation, there isn't much I can do. I powdercoated the whole tail section, so I'm going to re-examine those two bolted grounds on the side rails. Those were the only two I've had to remove to take the tail off. It does sound like a ground problem, though. What blows my mind is how it worked flawlessly and then gave up the ghost minutes later and is acting so flaky. Ground problems can be mysterious, but its strange the headlights and tail lamp works so well...they draw much more current than the fuel pump, dash cluster, etc. | ||
| New12r |
The headlights can use a different ground circuit. I would unplug the key switch and jump it with a couple jumpers. Then I would TEST the relays. Dont just feel them and say they are working. If you have a factory manual it has the diagrams so you know where and what to test. | ||
| Zac4mac |
The high-beam indicator working backwards is a classic type grounding symptom. Pictures.... what's she look like now? Zack | ||
| 1324 |
I was planning on the doing the relay checks tonight (off the bike). Previously, I just did the feel check...you're right though, I need to verify. Just the other day, I fixed my headlight issue. Late last season, my highbeam stopped working. At first, I thought it was the bulb because I use the HB all the time. Replacing it didn't work though, and it appeared to be a bad connection. I didn't have time to troubleshoot it then because of a relocation and job change. So the other day when I got around to looking at it, it turned out that the headlight fuse was actually able to wiggle free, just simply from the vibes. Not sure how the clips that the fuse plugged into opened up, but sure enough, that fixed it. Luckily, I did the headlight wire switcheroo when I bought the bike. If I didn't, I would have lost BOTH headlights during that lovely night ride I was on. At any rate, I checked the other fuses for similar fitment issues. Unfortunately, this wasn't that easy. | ||
| Ratbuell |
My guess is you have a bad ground (as noted above) either in the instrument cluster or in the left switch housing. Or a pinched wire to the left switch assembly. Did you have the housing off for anything like new grips? No matter how hard I try, or how often I do it, I *always* pinch something the first time I put switchgear back on the bike. Also, on anything you powdercoated, take it back off and grind the coating off of not only the grounding points, but the attaching points as well. Sometimes you may have a ground wire that attaches cleanly to the part...but the part doesn't have a clean attachment to the rest of the bike, so no ground. | ||
| Punkid8888 |
How about the tail to frame mounting points? If you got the tail Powder coated these surfaces need bare to allow the grounding to flow from the tail section to the frame. Other then that it sounds like a short to ground or something that got crossed up. Maybe checking the amp draw with everything off. the only thing that should be drawing current is the clock. I would also check under the flyscreen. there is a bunch of wiring under it that could have rubbed through something. | ||
| 1324 |
Last night while in bed I was thinking things over and I also thought about the ground contact between the the subframe members and the rest of the frame. I know I prepped some surfaces, but I may have missed some. I honestly can't remember what ones were done. Good calls though... | ||
| 1324 |
Oh, and Zac...pictures: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/327 77/344088.html?1205593739 http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/43/ 43.html?1206325750 | ||
| Etennuly |
For peace of mind try putting a small stainless washer under the bolts on your battery terminals if you don't have accessory stuff there already. The bolts have been known to be just a smidge too long, they will feel tight, but may have bottomed out into the battery. | ||
| 1324 |
The new battery I bought from the dealer come with SS hardware (bolts and washers). Plus, I have a couple connectors under the bolts for accessories. Bolts are definitely tight (first thing I checked last night). Hopefully this is just a ground problem....I don't want to buy more parts. | ||
| Jos51700 |
I'm going to refine my guess to poor connections in the torx bolts holding ground wires where they bolt to the side rails, and the side rails should be properly grounded at the frame mounting points as well. How about upper tie-bar/ground strap, is that tight? That one ran me in circles when I installed electric start on an XBRR. Commonly, in a bad ground situation, the lights will "hog" what little ground capacity there is, (Bigger "connections" provide less resistance) and then the other items are forced to back feed through whatever ground circuits might be available. (high beam indicator, in this case). IIRC, the ground cable bolts to the side rail (along with several other smaller ground leads in multiple places), and the frame gets it's ground from the side rail mounting points, and then the engine gets it's ground through the dedicated ground at the upper tie bar. A few minutes with a file should remove all questionable powdercoating. | ||
| 1324 |
For those who voted on the grounds, you get a prize. Not sure what that prize is, but congrats! Thanks for reinforcing was I previously speculated. Took about one hour to disassemble and sand (with a dremel) the grounds and mounting points. I had a pretty good layer of oxidation on the frames mounts, so I cleaned those up as well. Also, I had a chafed wire on the ECM's #1 pin (RH harness). Grounds fixed, wire fixed, new battery installed: no problems. The grounds weren't terrible, but they obviously needed the cleaning. However, the fuel pump and starter never ran with such vigor. I'm thinking the combination of the old battery and the oxidized grounds slowly reduced my electrical system capacity. I only have the bike for 8 months now, but it never started and cranked so easily. And here I thought it was normal. Embarrassing, but oh well. Thanks for the help, I'm just happy the bike is running now. I'm a firm believer in fate, even if it's caused by stupidity/rushing on my part. I have a feeling that using an almost 6 year old battery any longer would have been tempting fate! | ||
| Jos51700 |
Corrosion-free is tha way 2 B!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Punkid8888 |
sweet dude, glad to here its back up and running | ||
| 1324 |
Yeah, I'm glad, too. Good to know I don't have any faulty parts causing these problems. As long as the forecast stays clear of snow, we're ready to ride (finally). |
