| Author | Message | ||
     Bcool83 |
So I've been riding my 03 XB9S for, oh, 5 days now. When I first got the bike (test ride and all), I noticed that there seemed to be a LOT of clutch effort. But I just attributed it to being a different bike, and maybe needing an adjustment. The clutch (dis)engaged fine, the lever was just really heavy. Shifting seemed a bit heavier than normal too (I missed 2nd the first few times on the bike), but again, I thought it was just a Buell quirk. Well today, I'm sitting at a stoplight in N, and go to shift into first and nothing - it won't go into first. I have to jam on the shifter to get it in...this problem repeats itself many times throughout the day, but not every time I try to go into first. On the way home, it started doing it at every light. I noticed that the shifter was way lower than normal after "jamming" it into first...but I could then just nick the shifter back into place with my foot and we were good to go. Now it's started to be difficult to get into 2nd as well, and all but won't go into first. I did play with the shifter adjuster the other night, trying to fit it to me better... Maybe I just adjusted it wrong, or didn't tighten the nuts? I also checked the primary oil last night, and it appeared to be at the appropriate level. I haven't changed the oil yet, but the bike only has 1600 miles on it, and the oil looked clean last night (would've swapped it then but didn't have an appropriate funnel). Could it just need a primary chain adjustment? Any other ideas?  | ||
| Jackbequick |
Sounds like you may have started with a misadjusted clutch and/or primary chain. Another possibility is that the little clip on the shifter drum may have popped off and/or the pins may be backing out of the end of the drum. Or the spring plate may be falling apart and the bits and pieces are jamming things up. I'd say its time to get the primary cover off and start eyeballing things. All these problems and their cures are pretty well detailed in the Knowledge Vault. Study up on the procedures for adjusting the primary chain and clutch before you put it all back together, that'll pay off in the long run. Did you get that from a dealer? Any warranty? I use that if there was any. Jack | ||
| Bcool83 |
No, I got it from a private seller. Looks like I know what I'll be doing tomorrow after work! I assume all of these things are detailed in the service manual as well? I'll check out the KV too... Thanks for giving me some ideas Jack. | ||
| 1324 |
Buells/HDs have much heavier clutches and higher effort gear boxes than most, if not all, Japanese bikes...your SV included. That doesn't mean that your clutch cable is normal and doesn't need replacement, but given the low mileage on your bike and its state, I'd guess a damaged cable is unlikely. The clutch is definitely heavier than most bikes, and many friends have complained about mine, but it doesn't bother ME. When it comes to shifting into second, that is the only gear I've ever 'missed' on this bike (duh). But, a firm foot will fix that. This bike needs a little bit of muscle. It is much easier to shift into N with this tranny (and most bikes) while moving, so keep that in mind. I don't want to start a debate here, but I prefer to leave my bike in first in case I need to make a quick getaway. IMO, the possible t/o bearing failure over the life of my engine is worth saving my tail. So, in doing so, I never have a problem finding first or neutral. The only time I engage neutral is when I'm getting ready to dismount, so I usually shift while slowing to a stop. If you must get in neutral, I found modulating the clutch a bit while moving the bike back and forth to help... As far as the primary, I would change the oil, even though it is only 1600 miles old. I can't remember what oil Buell put in the 03's, but they now recommend the Formula + over the Syn 3 or whatever its called. I found Formula + to be much much better than the M1 synthetic, but that is just me. So, I'd recommend an oil change since the oil is old. As far as adjustment, its possible that the chain is in need of adjustment since your bike has so few miles on it...normal for a chain. I recommend buying the manual if you don't already have it and adjusting the chain/clutch per the book. HTH | ||
| U4euh |
Check the shift lever adjustment nuts first. Next-adjust the clutch tension, then the cable adjuster. Mine also acts up every now and then, I give a quick blip on the gas the same time pushing down on the lever, works every time. Then change your fluids, all of them. Assuming the person didn't change anything has always been my philosophy when buying a new toy. Several different opinions on what fluid to go with in the primary. I have used the Mobile 75w-90 gear oil. Some say it will fry the stator, I cannot argue that, but I will say, my motor had 34000 miles on it without stator problems. But I also changed that fluid every 8-9000 miles. | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... no sense in not going through the whole system. Clutch (easy as pie) Cable (easy as pie again) Lever (should pretty well sort itself out while your adjusting the cable) Then primary chain. With the primary chain it's better to be loose than tight, but you don't want it too loose. It'll start having trouble between 1st and 2nd. | ||
| Jackbequick |
The primary chain is easy to check, just pull that little cover and see if you can lift the chain about about 3-8" to 1/2" with light to moderate finger pressure. If you can, it is not too tight and you can leave it for now. If it was too loose you would be hearing it slapping on the case. If you do a primary chain adjustment, you want it a little looser than is called for in the service manual. Shoot for about 5/8-3/4" of free play (total movement, up and down, with moderate pressure). On the clutch adjustment, make sure you slack the cable length adjuster first (make the clutch lever floppy at the bar) and then do the clutch adjustment behind the derby cover as per the book. Down to a light touch, back it off 1/8th or 1/4 turn and quit. On the clutch lever free play at the bar, lengthen the cable sheath as per the manual. You only want to be able to pull the end of the cable where it enters and rests against the perch about 1/16" inch of so. And that is grabbing it with your fingers and pulling out as hard as you can. You can do all those fairly quickly without pulling the primary cover. If it still shifts hard and the clutch lever is still "really heavy" I wouldn't run it or ride it much until I could pull the primary cover and look for those other problems. The spring plate failure will normally put some small pieces of the rivets and brass springs in the primary and should be easy to spot. For the clip and the pins on the drum, get a small mirror and use a flashlight to bounce the light along your sight path up and behind the clutch drum and you should be able to spot if the clip is in place. The pins backing out will eventually drag on the back of the clutch drum and I guess that get really noisy and ugly from there. Those are just quickly remembered "snapshots" from the stuff in the KV and past threads here. You're in the right place to figure this out because if there is anything that has ever gone wrong with a Buell, someone here has experienced it. The happiest Buell owners are the ones that know and work on their bikes, you are now on the path to happiness! Good luck! Jack | ||
| Ratbuell |
My vote is for clutch and primary adjustment as listed above. Did the person you got the bike from have the 1,000 mile break-in service performed? Both those items are part of that service; if it wasn't done, I'd do it sooner rather than later. | ||
| U4euh |
Also remember when you adjust the primary chain, find the tightest spot on the chain then adjust from there. You will have loose spot and tight spot when you move the chain, bike in gear and rotate, or do as I do and bump the starter. Always look at at least 3-4 different spots. | ||
| Fran_dog |
Also before you go back together with it after checking everything mentioned above, lube your clutch cable. | ||
| Reepicheep |
If you are not careful about lubing the clutch cable often, it's probably dead at close to 10k miles on an XB. Even if you do lube it well, at 15k, it will feel a lot better when you replace it. | ||
| Bcool83 |
Thanks guys, I'm gonna try to tackle all this tonight (after I tear apart my kitchen sink, which conveniently got clogged at some point yesterday while I was breaking the bike, and apparently my cell phone too - bad things come in threes?!) Reeicheep, the bike has 1600 miles, nowhere near 10K...but I'll lube it anyways (assuming the svc manual says how to lube and with what?) | ||
| Ochoa0042 |
bcool, when at a stop and in neutral on a level plane, does the bike wanta move foward when you give off the brake? j/w | ||
| Bcool83 |
I don't believe so Ochoa. I know I tried "finding" N yesterday by letting off the clutch, and sometimes it either stood still or tried to move forward (depending on whether I was in first), but I can't remember whether I was on the brake or not. I'll try that first tonight...I'll bring the laptop to the garage and keep yall updated as I progress... | ||
| Damnut |
When I first got my XB I thought that the clutch pulled hard. Then I realized that that was just the way it was with the first few year XB's. Buying a Muller Power Clutch took care of that. Adjusting the clutch should help in shifting your bike like everyone says. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Mine needed lubed at 2k miles. It wasn't worn out by then, but it was definitely getting stiff. I ride in all sorts of weather though. I have come cable lube that has a long needle on the top. Rocket posted a nice description somewhere that had you cutting the corner out of a plastic bag, putting that over the open end of the ferrule, wire tying it tight, and squeezing oil down the cable. That may be a better approach... do it before you change your primary fluid rather then after, as it will force some gunk into the primary. | ||
| Hexangler |
Extreme clutch wear can demonstrate these symptoms as well. After 60,000 miles on my sportster (half of it pulling a sidecar), I had to replace the clutch plates and the clutch diaphragm spring. The clutch could no longer be adjusted, no throw out, clutch lever was always tight and limited travel. | ||
| Bcool83 |
OK, well the shift lever adjustment nuts were totally lose. Definitely problem number one, as the adjustment sleeve had spun down a bit. Just fixing that back to where it should be and shifting a bit in the garage, things feel back to normal. Next, to adjust the cable. Does the rear wheel really need to be off the ground for this? Manual says so, but I cant figure out why... | ||
| New12r |
No the rear wheel does not have to be off the ground for a clutch cable adj. For the primary chain adjustment it is helpful. | ||
| Bcool83 |
Ugh...ok, I've adjusted the clutch cable per the manual and per what everyone's said. I've got the ferrule, which I'm assume is the most outward part of the metal cap over the cable, to be able to be pulled ~ 1/16" from the perch (per Jackbequick as well). However, after doing that, there's no way to disengage the clutch it seems. Hmm, brain fart moment. Does the primary "derby" need to be back on in order for the clutch to actually disengage? | ||
| Bcool83 |
Hmm...nope, definitely has nothing to do with the derby. OK, any ideas why the clutch doesn't seem to be disengaging now? I turned the adjuster screw counterclockwise until it JUST stopped, then backed it off 1/4 turn (this was after totally loosening the cable adjuster). Then squeezed the clutch lever three times, and tightened the adjuster to where the cable is JUST able to be pulled away from the perch. I'm stumped - I've never touched the clutch cable on a bike before... I don't really understand the "ball/ramp" stuff talked about in the manual (the reason for squeezing the lever 3x before tightening the adjuster)? OK, after reading (Message edited by bcool83 on February 25, 2008)http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/32777/193947.html?1146522846#POST644777, apparently what I have is normal. I'll just have to push it around in N when I want to push I guess. Started her up - there's no creeping in N, and the clutch grabs at the same point it did before in gear, so I guess we're good. Now to try the primary chain adjustment (and figure out how to move the chain while the bike is stationary)... (Message edited by bcool83 on February 25, 2008) | ||
| Ccryder |
For getting lube in your clutch cable they make a real neat device that slips over the end of your clutch cable. It has 2 knurled knobs that lock it down on the cable housing. The actual cable sticks out the other end. Cycle gear has them for sure. You take your spray lube of choice with a little plastic straw and insert it into the donut on the side. Spray until lube comes out the bottom. The old ones with one knurled knob won't really fit over the clutch cable. Real neat, pretty clean and works great. You will notice the difference! Neil S. | ||
| Bcool83 |
So to lube the cable, I have to disconnect it from both the lever and the clutch? Sorry for such a n00b question guys, but like I said this is totally new (kinda sad this is still new after 6+ years of riding huh?) | ||
| Cataract2 |
Yup, you'll have to loosen it enough to get it out of the handle. Then you should have a cable lube tool and a spray can. I use chain wax for my cables. Works niiiiiiiiice.  | ||
| Damnut |
I see that your in Snellville, GA and going to March Badness. Do you know that your right in prime time 3%r's land??????  I'm sure that one of them could possibly help you out. | ||
| Bcool83 |
I just wish someone would tell me what 3%er was! lol... I'm waiting for New12r to say "Hey Bill, I'll be right over!" PS Damnut, I went to school relatively close to ya, at Roger Williams ;) | ||
| Jackbequick |
"..I don't really understand the "ball/ramp" stuff talked about in the manual (the reason for squeezing the lever 3x before tightening the adjuster)?.." What is happening there is that when you turn that screw CCW you are pulling the well nut down into that recess. You want to stop when I just contacts the bottom of the recess as tightening it any further has the same effect as pulling the clutch lever in, it starts disengaging the clutch. Backing the screw off the 1/4 turn CW unloads the bearing that the clutch actuator rides on. Think of that bearing as a throw out bearing, it is only under load when the lever is pulled. If you do not unload the bearing, it will not last long. Making the lever floppy at the bar first lets the ball ramp moving parts go all the way back as far as they can before you start making the above adjustment. If you don't do that you are giving up or losing some of the "throw" on the ball ramp. When you do the clutch lever free play adjustment, you are taking all the slack out of the cable preparatory to putting a pulling strain on the arm on the ball ramp thing. If you overdo the cable length adjustment you are again doing the same thing as hat happens when you pull the lever in. So you would be pulling the ball ramp arm part way and maybe loading that bearing full time. Also, on the XB's if you overdo one or both of the two adjustments, an excess pulling force or amount of travel occurs that can break the lip off that everything rests on in the inside of the derby cover. And that is a real tear jerker because you have to rub it with money for a new primary cover or a lot of cleverness to effect a repair. I'm speaking from my experience with a tuber but I think most or all the principles are the same on an XB. You're doing good though, don't you think so guys? We've had new Buellers here before that were much harder to communicate with. Jack | ||
| Damnut |
may I present the 3%r's http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 47796.html | ||
| Bcool83 |
Thanks Jack. I've got a fair amount of mechanical aptitude, but it resides largely with cars. I've done a fair amount of other mech/handiwork stuff as well, but I've never really tinkered with bikes even though I've been riding for a while. Hell, I was scared to take the fairings off my 2nd bike, and that was after riding for 2 years! Damnut, I know where the 3%er board is, I'm just trying to figure out why it's so named :P All - everything seems to be working fine now. I adjusted the cable, checked the primary chain tension, and replaced all oils. I didn't lube the cable, but only because I don't have time to get to CycleGear this week. Took her out for a quick rip around the neighborhood, and she's shifting right as rain now (aside from the apparently-common clunk). I really think my main problem stemmed from me not tightening the shifter rod adjuster nuts well enough, but I'll just check them after every ride now. Thanks so much for all your help! It's great to find another board with so much useful info and helpful people. | ||
| Typeone |
glad you're back in action, Bill! BadWeb peeps rule for thoughts, help and info. btw, those adjustment nuts can come loose often, keep an eye on 'em. when you lube your cable, if its still not to your liking, you could give the Free Spirits 'soft clutch' a try. i have one installed and love it. cheaper than the Muller but works essentially the same. i think it was only around $40US. |
