| Author | Message | ||
     Nanotech9 |
I hooked a buddy up with some custom made stuff and I hear he posted about it on here and it got removed... I was wondering if ya'll dont allow people to brag about their new mods on here or what the problem is? I'm pretty proud of the stuff i make and he was pretty happy and it looked good on his bike... Everything i make off the top of my head after taking measurements on whatever bike it is. I started by making things for my00 R6 about three years ago, then my ZX10 2 years ago, then custom fabbing things for my YZ426 self-converted street legal motard for the last year, and now i try to hook fellow riders (and fellow gun enthusiasts) up with stuff from time to time, all out of my home on my manual lathe and mill. I'm dissapointed that his post bragging about his new parts I made him was removed. This hurt me that my fellow bikers would do this and it seemed that it was not holding high the spirit of riding and enjoyment that this sport brings to us. I guess ya'll dont encourage custom mods to your bikes? Or is it against the rules to post about non-harley / buell branded things or what? I'm confused. (Message edited by nanotech9 on June 07, 2007) | ||
| Js_buell |
Well I guess that if it was seen as advertisement and your not a site sponsor thats why it got deleted. Only my .2 cents | ||
| Ridrx |
This makes me sad. You can't even fab your own parts without someone accusing you of "stealing" the idea, then simply removing your post? Funny how your "opinion" matters more when you have some sort of authority. I say the spools looked nice, good work. | ||
| Nanotech9 |
thanks. Has anyone ever talked about intuitive frame sliders or spools that didnt own that company? if so, what my friend did is no different. Now i'm here because i was offended by the way he was treated. But, i dont own this site nor am i a friend of the owner. I guess that person can do as they wish with their site. However, i was accused of copying someone elses work and this i am here to refute. I have been making axel sliders for Supermotos (starting with my own) for over a year now, and spools for over two years. The supermoto racing regulations require that supermotos have axel sliders. This is commonly done by running all-thread through a set of skateboard wheels or threading them into custom delrin sliders. I was asked by my friend to make him a set of spools for his bike. I asked if it the swing arm was threaded like all current jap bikes for spools. He said no. So i asked if the axel was hollow. It doesnt take a genius to figure out that you can stick spools on the end of a threaded rod just as easily as you can a set of supermoto sliders. Same principle, different application. I'm sure my idea is not new, neither was anyone else who tried this for the last 4 or 5 years since supermoto has been popular. Someone thought of it was back in the day when they first made it mandatory, and it caught on. Currently i've made about 10 or 15 custom sets of sliders, spools, extended sliders, bark buster sliders (for dirtbikes and supermoto), peg sliders, and knee puck sliders. Not counting the dozens of items i've custom fabbed for guns including flash supressors and trigger groups. I'm no genius, but i'm no dummy. I dont have to see anyone elses work to copy it. I can come up with simple ideas on my own, especially if a friend has a specific request or application. Maybe i can post some pictures of my ZX10 custom aluminum and delrin combo spools for you guys to look at since looking at buell items is forbidden. BTW, my zx10 spools are not for sale and are a one off for my personal bike. Sound good? | ||
| Lazyj |
uh...yeah Nanotech9 I would assume that you will be receiving an explanation shortly from a certain web moderator........ | ||
| Nanotech9 |
i'm sure i will... that happens on boards that are controlled and dictated by the businesses that support them. Where i come from we found a different way to handle things. We have local vendors - including several of the local competing bike shops - that are what we call supporting vendors... they support our club by offering our members a discount. In return we give them their own forum where they are at will to post specials etc... Anyone that offers a discount to our members is welcome to this forum and can post whatever they want. We also have banners. They are $100 a year for a rotating banner add. This give them visual marketing to a direct customer base, but it does not buy them any rights to tell us how to run our website or tell us who can and cant offer something for sale. This works much better and we can run our site how we want, not how other companies want us to. That being said, i'm interested in becoming a supporting vendor here. Does anyone know how much that costs...? is it yearly, or monthly? I'de like to offer some of my stuff for sale, and before anyone jumps me about "copying" anything, dont worry, i've already greatly improved any design offered by other vendors who are copying the products and ideas used profusely in the supermoto world. Someone get back to me on a price for advertising here please  | ||
| Nanotech9 |
zx10 spools - not for sale... should be ok to post right? i want to make sure i'm following the guidelines of this website.    | ||
| Nanotech9 |
I just looked at what someone told me i "copied".... their products dont even look close to mine. I dont get it. Looks like theirs are run on a CNC lathe and much prettier looking than mine, and designed completely different. The only thing in common is the all-thread but thats something we all copied off of the supermoto world. Its about the only way to do it w/o welding onto the bottom of the swingarm. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Wait a ••••••• second...the thread with the orange and black derlin spools was deleted?! I think we are owed an explanation why. If it's because DHM is a sponsor or because somebody thinks the design was a copy of DHM's this site is even more ridiculous than I thought. | ||
| Nanotech9 |
yes thats my understanding. I made those orange ones (and the black ones) and was pretty proud that i matched Kawasaki ZX10 Orange (basically OSU orange) perfectly. In fact, it was a closer match than the custom paint i had mixed to paint my wheel lips orange lol. I think my time figured up to me making about $5 / hr on those lol. I didnt know it would offend a vendor. I like to help fellow enthusiasts, and obviously, i'm not in it for the money. I make $30 / hr at work which would be a much better investment of my time compared to machining custom stuff for bikes and guns. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
But you didn't advertise them for sale on this site, did you? | ||
| Nanotech9 |
I did not... i'm not sure how my friend posted them up. I didnt get the impression that it was a classifieds ad, but showing off the item i made for him. Whether or not he payed me for it should be on no consequence. i think. lol. i'm not out to steal anyones business. just to help some friends out. | ||
| Brewtus |
Nanotech9 You sound like a stand up guy. Could I maybe interest you in making a custom muzzle break for a Remington .338 Ultra Mag?  | ||
| Cochise |
I have no idea and I never saw his post, but I will say that if somebody makes something that a vendor makes and the item made is cheaper than the vendor's, and the vendor is helping pay for the site, I see no reason why a post COULDN'T be yanked. | ||
| Brewtus |
Cochise, I agree with you completely, but the guy that posted those items never said they were for sale and did not advertise them. What I saw was that he just showed what his friend made for him and he was proud of them. All he wanted was opinions on them. I really love this site but I really just don't understand why the post was pulled.  Apparently it really doesn't matter though because Nanotech9 already stated he was willing to become a supporting vendor here. | ||
| Jmemmert |
Nanotech9... It is probably my fault. I posted on that thread asking if you'd be willing to sell them. That should have been sent in a pm. I apologize for that. In My opinion... The thread's original intention wasn't to sell a thing. It was only created to show off someones ability to fabricate a custom part for their bike. If anything should have been done, my post requesting some be made should have been deleted, not the whole thread. Sorry for expressing my opinion. Jon | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Nanotech9... It is probably my fault. I posted on that thread asking if you'd be willing to sell them. That should have been sent in a pm. I apologize for that. Don't feel bad. They should have never removed that thread even if you did ask that. Whoever deleted the thread is a tool. I'm just curious if that person is going to admit to it and give us his reasoning. Cochise: You didn't see the thread so you don't know how innocent it was. Nobody was selling anything. One person came up with homemade slider/spools NOT unlike the rollerskate homemade threads on this site, and it was deleted FOR NO REASON! | ||
| Molly_hatchet |
personaly ,,,i wish i had a friend that could fab up some nifty stuff like that...sometimes when ur afraid to offend anybody...u end up offending everybody....go figure...no such thing as an unbiased forum. | ||
| Blake |
I removed Charles' (Slow_black_ss') "spools" thread from public view only after politely asking for and receiving his explicit permission to do so. The issue should have ended then and there. Nanotech, if you have an issue with me, I ask that you please take it up directly/privately with me. The public display of drama and consternation is unwelcome here. Frankly, if your friend Charles shared with you my communications with him on the issue then you should know well my stance and the reasoning for it. But you are playing coy, so I'll lay it out for you here in public. My view is that the sliders were copies of the DHM design; whether intentional or not really makes little difference in the end as far as the appropriateness of their display on BadWeB. It was inappropriate to have them displayed here with folks inquiring about purchasing and producing them, especially on this the primary venue that DHM generously supports in return for the privilege to advertise their products. The ability to conduct market/advertise here is a valuable privilege for sponsors whose support is vital, allowing BadWeB to pay our bills and maintain the web site here. Comments from Charles, the author of that thread, like "You keep spending your money buddy" were not re-assuring as to the intent and origination of the sliders. The same goes for some comments from other contributors to that thread. I communicated privately with most of them, and we all have reached respectful understanding. I challenge anyone to imagine the other side of the issue. Imagine how you would feel if you invested a bunch of hard work and personal resources and advertising investment trying to create a successful small business only to see people displaying home-made copies of your product on the very venue where you pay for the privilege of marketing your product? Anyone who says that they'd be fine with that is not likely being honest. When the shoe is on the other foot, the view of the issue can change in a hurry, yes? I can tell you that the folks at DHM are among the very finest, most honest, kind, and thoughtful that I know. Their integrity is impeccable. They were not at all pleased to see the thread displaying copies of their design and folks expressing interest in purchasing or obtaining the design details for further manufacture. They were not pleased about that at all. Neither was I, and neither should anyone be who has a measure of integrity. If you say that the spools were not intentional duplicates of the DHM design, I accept that, and apologize for accusing as much. My bad, sorry for that. I hope in return that you will honor and respect my decision on the matter and let it drop. I am asking politely and respectfully that you please drop the issue. Will you please do that? Surely we can find more pleasant and constructive things to discuss. Yes? (Message edited by blake on June 08, 2007) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I think something similar happened in a post proclaiming the benefits of a machining company's products. The individual had like 2 posts to his history. The machining company eventually became a sponsor. I like the fact that every other thread isn't a post to market a product. Too much spam is a really bad thing. I don't know if this was a product pitch or not. Product pitches without doing the necessary sponsor action is bad form. Someone not pitching products would understand the desire not to have rampant spam and the reason a thread might be deleted. Does make you wonder. | ||
| Blake |
Timothy (07xb12scg), You apparently don't read your email. You are free to refrain from participating on this "ridiculous" site at any time. I often suggest to folks like you, the over-indignant discussion board critics of the web, to go create your own web site forum and run it as you see fit, however your heart desires. I sure won't presume to tell you how you should manage it. If I don't like it or how it is managed, I'll simply avoid it. Simple, yes? Honorable, yes? Yes! Posting here is a privilege enjoyed by those who manage to avoid seriously aggravating this "tool" or my fellow custodial "tools." It usually takes a LOT to aggravate us "tools." Congratulations are in order for you though as you are well on your way to that status. Ever consider that you may well have achieved a "tool" status of your own? From my perspective that is highly likely. Me? I suggest that we let the issue drop dead and talk about other more interesting and constructive stuff. What say you? Got any cool power tools?  (Message edited by blake on June 08, 2007) | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Blake, you are correct about having the right to run the site the way you want. I don't know who owns or runs this site and I didn't even know that you're one of those "in power". My comments and opinions still stand. Run the site this way and you will drive people away. My comments were driven by what I feel is right. Your deletion of that thread was driven purely by money and not for the good of the site or the good of the members. If the thread we are referring to here violated something then I'll assume that you will also take down the roller skate slider threads on this site. They do use the through-axle design as well and surely they infringe on DHM's design... I plan on eventually getting the DHM spools and sliders, but I wish somebody from DHM would chime in here voicing their opinion and supporting the creator of those spools. I did not check my email as I don't check that account often. I will do so when I have time. If I have aggravated you or the other mods I think I did well. You aggravated me and a bunch of other members by your comment on the other thread and then by deleting it. I don't know what field your in, but if you were in engineering like I am you would see that so many designs are very similar to even patented designs. Does that make them illegal or unethical? No. | ||
| Nanotech9 |
Blake, I appreciate you addressing my questions. I also appreciate the manner and wording of your post, and am surprised by how you've handled this. I fully expected to be banned instantly, and yet you've voiced your perspective very well. "I can tell you that the folks at DHM are among the very finest, most honest, kind, and thoughtful that I know. " I never met or spoke with them, but i'll believe you on that - i looked at their product lastnight, and it looks like top quality product. They obviously have machines and tooling i cannot afford as i do this as a hobby in my 1 car garage amongst my dozens of other hobbies, all packed into that same 1 car garage lol. "If you say that the spools were not intentional duplicates of the DHM design, I accept that, and apologize for accusing as much. My bad, sorry for that. " Thanks for the apology. Upstanding on your part! For everyone else on this forum - I also am a moderator on a forum that deals with motorcycles - in fact i'm a council member in our local club that owns the forum. I believe that Blake has handled my posts very well. He could easily have had a knee-jerk reaction and banned me for being aggressive about this, but he chose to explain his actions. As a moderator myself, i understand how difficult it is to choose the right thing to do, and that no matter what you do, 1/2 the people on your board will like it, and the other half wont. Ultimately, he chose to do what would most please his sponsor. That makes sense from a business standpoint. As a moderator myself, I am not pressured by this type of situation and am grateful. Our forums does not depend on the money brought in by sponsors, but by dues payed by our club members. All our sponsors receive the same treatment which is access to post in their vendor's forum at will. Anyone offering our club a discount gets the same privileges, competitors or not. This has made our local shops be MORE competitive in prices. In fact, one fellow offers $10 tire changes off the bike on brand new top-of-the-line touchless tire changing machine and electronic balancer. WOW. But, thats what works for us, and thats what i'm used to. I admit i'm not used to being controlled by paying sponsors, so i'm not fully aware of the pressures they can put on the mods or owners of a website like this. I would however request that the boards be more lenient towards home-made items that people show. If you dont want competition to your sponsors, simply ask the posters to mention either the item isn't for sale or its in conflict with a similar item from a sponsor and you are therefore just showing it off... Ultimately, what my friend did was no different than if someone bought a set of spools from Intuitive and posted a picture, and said "i got these really cheap off ebay".... They bought an accessory for their bike that was not made by a site sponsor and mentioned where they go tit from - just because it wasn't made or sold to them by a sponsor honestly shouldn't prevent them from bragging about it. My last and final thought on this.... How has removing that innocent thread of someone bragging about their new mod helped your sponsor more than leaving it? The removal of the thread only caused me to sign on here and try to defend my creation, bringing even more attention to the item(s). It would seem that would be just the opposite of what you would want to do in the best interest of your vendors. Also... I take it i'm not welcome to become a sponsoring vendor? | ||
| Hdbobwithabuell |
Zzzzzzzzzzzz | ||
| Blake |
"Ultimately, he chose to do what would most please his sponsor." "Your deletion of that thread was driven purely by money and not for the good of the site or the good of the members." You're both wrong. I've lost and angered sponsors for displeasing them in the way I've seen fit to maintain BadWeB against their own wishes. Pleasing sponsors and/or obtaining their money are not my over-riding concerns, nor the reasons compelling my views and actions on BadWeB. Upholding the integrity of the site here is my paramount driving concern. In my view, allowing folks to display what appear to be counterfeit copies of retail products and then having folks seeking to purchase and/produce them sorely compromises the integrity of the site, especially when at the expense of those who make the site possible. I asked the author for permission to remove the thread. If permission had been withheld, the thread would have remained along with my clearly stated opinion contained therein. It likely would have fallen into the archives in short order. No big deal. Some folks here may not have heard, Paris Hilton got out of jail after serving just one day! Now there's some real drama for you who are so inclined, ahem Timothy (07xb12scg) ahem. Have I done enough to "drive you away" yet? Wow! You are in engineering! Then you must be used to always being right. You should start a new web forum, "Why it's okay to copy the work of others." I'm sure it'll be a huge hit. My site, my rules, my screw-ups, my horrible imperfectness (don't tell my wife). I only do the best I can. I ain't perfect (again, please don't tell my wife). Then again, there are some folks who I and the other custodians are perfectly happy to "drive away" from BadWeB. Those would be the relentlessly antagonistic, pontificating, self-righteous, instigators of consternation types, "tools" is an applicable descriptor. Wouldn't you agree? Did anyone notice? I worked Paris Hilton into the thread. This should be fun. | ||
| Ridrx |
Blake, Glad to see you standing on valueS rather than value$. The offer to purchase had not been posted when I saw the thread, hence my post. I agree with the removal, especially since you contacted the poster first.  I know I'm probably one of the "...relentlessly antagonistic, pontificating, self-righteous, instigators of consternation types, "tools"..." you were referring to(not an accusation), but I will ALWAYS applaud integrity and principals.Keep up the hard work, the wealth of info and good people here are worth it. BTW...Is anyone surprised they let her out? I'm shocked she did 3 days. | ||
| Nanotech9 |
You're both wrong. I've lost and angered sponsors for displeasing them in the way I've seen fit to maintain BadWeB against their own wishes. Pleasing sponsors and/or obtaining their money are not my over-riding concerns, nor the reasons compelling my views and actions on BadWeB. If so then i think you're probably doing an excellent job as a moderator of this forum. Carry on the good work. Thank you for taking time out to address my concerns. | ||
| Court |
>>>>If so then i think you're probably doing an excellent job as a moderator of this forum. He is. Even when he's a pain in the ass, we still love 'im. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Some folks here may not have heard, Paris Hilton got out of jail after serving just one day! Now there's some real drama for you who are so inclined, ahem Timothy (07xb12scg) ahem. Have I done enough to "drive you away" yet? Wow! You are in engineering! Then you must be used to always being right. You should start a new web forum, "Why it's okay to copy the work of others." I'm sure it'll be a huge hit. So now you've resorted to patronizing me? Wow! I'd leave it at that, but I have to defend my engineering reputation. No, I've NEVER stolen a design so don't even insinuate that. I don't think I'm always right either, but I AM usually correct. Let's take the frame of an XB for example. Its design is very similar to that of a Jap bike's frame, with the exception of fuel in the frame. All of the Jap bikes frames are strikingly similar as are their engines. Now were any of these companies sued or reprimanded for having similar designs? No! You can create a design similar to another, but that does not mean you're copying the design. That was my point. At least you asked the creator of the thread before you deleted it. | ||
| Court |
>>>Its design is very similar to that of a Jap bike's frame I'm a construction worker and not all that bright. See if you can convince me of that. |
