| Author | Message | ||
     Buelltroll |
I wonder why mr anonymous himself don't post in this thread like he does anytime someone starts a thread he feels is "invalid" ? | ||
| Hkwan |
Wondering if one of the Vendors on here can come out with a kit that allows for 'easy' swap with the R's headlights. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Hkwan, no matter what, it's NOT an easy fix to do the Hella conversion. Doing a kit? Yeah, I've thought about it. But you still have to hack away a bunch on the original mounting bracket to get to the new adjusters while it's mounted.And the you have to cut the openings on the fairing itself to get a proper fit. Cut off the inner two adjuster studs, remove the other 4 adjustment studs, etc... I could design up a bracket that takes most of that out, except the fairing issue. But it would be a 5 axis job, or multiple setups on a 3 axis machining center. In any case, it's not exactly an EASY swap IMHO. Here's my swap I did recently. http://picasaweb.google.com/mackay.steve/HellaLigh tsForXB12XRSTT | ||
| Rd3501 |
I know everyone is looking for a fix to the lights but reality is Buell needs to fix it. You paid over $10,000.00 for a motorcycle that came with faulty lighting that is required by law/government to work to a standard. Buell was in such a rush to get the bike into production that they let a lot of things slide. Personally, still think someone at Buell should have ridden the bikes in the middle of the Desert at night and see how the lights work at jack rabits. For all those who continue to chime in and say blah, blah, blah, Buell is great stop bitching about your poor lights. Who needs lights you say.. I guess you might want to pull your headlights part and take a look at them. Thats if the people who keep praising Buell even own a Firebolt. Never a problem it seems until it happens to you I guess. Just like all the poor guys who had 2003 and got stuck in the middle of no where with bad belts. Just spent $600.00 for the new belt system. Not really the right solution in my opinon. Just like force me to fix my own headlights. Sorry its just plan wrong. I still want to see if someone who owns a 9S, or 12S would be so kind to pull them apart and see if they also need fixing. I am guess yes there is problems with them too..Even the new Uly...and TT.. | ||
| Ridrx |
}"Buell was in such a rush to get the bike into production ..." That was in 2002(2003 model year), this is 2007(it's been 5 YEARS!)! That's not pushing toward a production date, that's IGNORING a KNOWN defect, whether Buell wants to admit it or not! There are posts about this dating back to 2004, this is NOT a new issue, regardless of what Buell, Court , or anyone else says...BMC HAS KNOWN ABOUT THIS!...and chosen to ignore it until people started talking about legal ramifications. So, they replace a handful of parts with the same defective junk (not even ALL the defects,just enough to claim they have taken some action) and continue ignoring us. Everyone keeps bringing up how much this could hurt BMC financially(defective lights),but I bet that keeping silent on the issue is far more detrimental to their existence than a few bad lights they got from an outside source. I'm not upset w/ BMC that the lights need replacing(they didn't make them), I'm upset that BMC insists there is NO problem, and continues to ignore the fact that EVERY person who actually looks inside their lights has this problem. I wonder why mr anonymous himself don't post in this thread like he does anytime someone starts a thread he feels is "invalid" ?. Because this is a valid complaint with safety equipment...posting on the issue would be an admission of knowing about,ignoring, and trying to HIDE the facts... 1. One Bolt has already caught fire(how many others that aren't on BadWeb?) 2. Complaints filed w/ NHTSA(thankfully the number is growing) 3. Buell has the defective parts in their possesion 4. Riders wouldn,t be dropping hundreds on lights if the stockers worked 5. This HAS been known about for a LONG time(long enough to have rectified the situation) 6. BMC doesn't make the product, so how can they do ANY kind of research(just pissing away our time/their money)...shouldn't the manufacturer be the one doing any research needed? (Message edited by RidrX on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Jandj_davis |
Didn't Badweb just add a sponsor that does all CNC Billet stuff? For great prices too I believe. Precision Engineering I believe. I wonder if they would chime in on this machining conversation. That bracket that Steve put together definitely does not look like a 5-axis job to me. | ||
| Gowindward |
Ridrx, can you post up some photos of the reflectors from your bike showing us the level of degradation that has occurred on your lamps. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
Jandj_davis, No, the bracket *I* put together is *NOT* a 5 axis job. But to make it for a brain dead simple install, it would need to replace the original plastic bracket that holds the headlights/adjusters, and several other things that mount at various angles on to that plastic bracket. And to mount to the fairing mount itself. The bracket I made, makes it less "rigged", by not having to bondo up the plastic bracket to drill the holes for the adjuster. But I still have to cut parts of the original plastic bracket away to make clearance for the new adjusters. | ||
| Ridrx |
Gowindward, My crappy lights became so dim by 3800miles I had to replace them...got pulled over for improper lighting, fortunately it was thrown out thanks to the threads on this forum about the lights being defective and us not getting ANY help from the manufacturer, HOWEVER the JUDGE did suggest we get a lawyer and start a class action suit, which sounds more reasonable every day. The ••••••• dealer says I used the wrong bulbs(they were stock) so I refused to get SCREWED into BUYING a new one and found a local wreck which only had 1700miles, reflector was still in better shape than mine. I sent mine to guy who was trying to make a metal reflector that could be chromed, didn't work too well and the original degraded reflective surface was removed in the process. | ||
| Isham |
I think someone on this forum put aluminum foil into the stock housing and got good results. I just picked up some chrome paint and repainted the inside of the housing and its holding up well. Now I have other problems with the headlights the plastic straps that hold the lens on have cracked and are barely hanging on any day now they'll fall out. I guess I should break out the super glue right about now. I think the best thing to do is take the stock housing and get it plastic-chromed, don't wait for BMC, your safety can't wait for the mother company to act. If BMC got some spares and had them chromed the problem would be solved. Make it an optional recall. They supply the parts we install and everyone is happy. (Message edited by isham on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Onthebumper |
I'm upset that BMC insists there is NO problem Since when has BMC or anyone claimed there is NO problem BMC doesn't make the product, so how can they do ANY kind of research(just pissing away our time/their money)...shouldn't the manufacturer be the one doing any research needed? How is it that you came by the information that the Manufacturer of the headlights is doing nothing/research? There are a lot of assumptions going on here about who is doing what if anything at all (BMC or Manufacturer). If you have a problem then file it with the NTSA. Right now it is your best bet since WE DON'T KNOW what is going on except that our lights are having problems. Again my stance on this is that I do believe there is a problem but that a solution is not as easy as everyone here believes it is. And yes I do own a Firebolt and yes the lights do need to be replaced and yes I filed with the NTSA. (Message edited by onthebumper on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
A bracket is not necessary to do this installation. I did mine using the stock bracket. I drilled holes and reinforced those area's with some liquid metal. The lower holes are just outside the original bottom bracket holes and need to be removed. A small piece of flat stock was used to make the new mounting hole bracket. very small piece of metal is needed. When doing my installation I had messed up the first set of holes and needed to redo them as the lights were not dead center like I wanted, I would have needed to shave a little off the top lip on the fairing. I wanted them to look stock and had to make new holes to get them right in the middle. The fairing needs very little material removed. Just enough to make a circle that goes from the top lip to the bottom lip. I used a dremel tool and took my time. Then install the fairing and check the clearence once the lights are adjusted correctly. You will need to take a small amount off as the lights are on a small angle after adjustment. You will end up with a nice tight fit and they look stock. Last night I was messing around w/ a cad drawing and modified a bracket that was sent to me(thanks Bertman !) It was not perfect but close. I made a template from some thick poster board and went out to the shed to check it out. I was thinking I would get it laser cut and install it this weekend After messing around with it I decided it was not needed as it really only added material that was not needed. I was going to add the bracket plate but decided this would be a waist. It is perfectly fine as it is with the stock bracket. I like to keep things simple. This is a simple install and can be done in about 5-6 hours taking your time and doing it right. I should have taken some pictures while I had it apart. I was not thinking. | ||
| Hkwan |
Dont know if any lawyer will take on this class action since no financial compensation will be awarded from BMC, i.e. no money in it for the lawyer. Would an online request to BMC in a form of a letter and have everyone sign online be effective to get BMC off their butts and start fixing the issue? They wanted to buy some time and shut some people up short while ago by agreeing to take in some bad housing from some BadWebbers in the name of investigation. I am willing to bet they just toss them in the trash the moment they received them. No data produced from what they received. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
I hesitate to enter the fray on a topic which has already generated more heat than light so to speak, but I couldn't help wondering if anyone has experimented with having the reflectors in the stock lights chrome plated. In another recent post I remarked how jealous I was of the headlights on a friends Kawasaki F 1000 which seemed much, much brighter than the lights on my Lightning, (not Firebolt). I noticed that the reflectors on his headlights, like all Japanese bikes, were a bright lustrous chrome plating, that looks just like chrome plated metal even though it is plastic, (I think). I wondered if anyone had tried to chrome plate their reflectors? I am thinking of doing it to my Lightning as the reflectors on the stock lights are pretty dull. Ideas anyone? | ||
| Ridrx |
Onthebumper, Since when has BMC or anyone claimed there is NO problem Since the genius at the dealer told me it was MY fault? Since a phone call to Buell netted me the same reply? Since Buell,until just a few weeks ago, IGNORED it? Since Buell ASKED for the bad lights...then replaced something like 5 peoples lights and said "we don't need any more", ever occur to Buell that WE might NEED them? I don't claim to know jacksquat about the events that must transpire in order for this problem to be solved, whether by Buell or the manufacturer. I DO know that complaints of this issue are in the public access area of this forum(which Buell monitors to be sure,even if only occassionaly) since 2004 maybe earlier, and I doubt if people were complaining on the internet and NOT telling Buell about this, yet it is 2007 and not even an acknowledgment, much less a solution, from Buell, the light manufacturer or the overly protective HD mother company. One example(that I know of) has actually caught fire, not only was there no recall, investigation, or even a service bulletin, Buell still maintains they are determining IF a problem exists, all the while holding the evidence of a SERIOUS safety issue in their hands. I'm through complaining to BMC, filing, calling, etc. As most have already done in the name of SAFETY, I'm going to fix it on my own dime. Don't worry Buell, almost everyone has tired of waiting and fixed it themselves...just a little longer and you can pretend it never happened. GJ, I agree, more heat than light. I've tried calling a few places to do just that, however most places don't want to touch it because it's a headlight(DOT regs and all that)... but i'm still looking. (Message edited by RidrX on May 31, 2007) | ||
| Srlorg |
I made an aluminum cnc bracket for my XB9R that requires that you drill two holes in the original mount and modify the 90 mm hella adjusters on the high beam side. You also have to sand and saw away the fourth lug on the Hella lights. Very easy to install. You need a drill, a way to file the fairing Id do a run and make a kit if enough people are interested. Im not sure what the policy is for making stuff like that and selling it here though. | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm upset that BMC insists there is NO problem Send me your source for Buell's insistence. The majority of the rhetoric has been in regard to Buell's silence. Tell me when they said and when they insisted anything? I think the problem is REAL. I think most the rhetoric is bogus, born of frustration. I'd be equally frustrated, bear in mind you are dealing with the owner of a BMW F650 which BMW still denies the surging problem after 7 years. The problem needs solved and Buell has never failed to aggressively pursue a solution whenever they became aware of a problem and, in fact, has done several recalls where they could not substantiate that there was a problem but erred on the side of caution. The folks in charge of this are smart, honest and hard working motorcycle enthusiasts. I'm not sure our putting words in their mouths or misattributing thoughts to them is entirely fair. Buell has a reputation of going miles beyond what is required. I have no reason to suspect they'll suddenly deviate from that. Frankly, if I owned an XB I'd be pissed and optimistic. I maintain that few folks have an appreciation for the root cause of the problem or the magnitude of the solution. Court | ||
| Bueaddicted |
I'm scared of even saying anything that might be taken out of context, but it is these little problems and the lack of aftermarket parts, etc, that soil my happiness with my first ever Buell. Don't get me wrong - my 12R has been my best bike ever so far... Goodness gracious... KTM/Ducati/Triumph keeps getting more and more attractive... | ||
| Ducxl |
Just so everyone remembers. | ||
| Ridrx |
Court, "...has done several recalls where they could not substantiate that there was a problem but erred on the side of caution. 1. Complaints have been filed with the NHTSA 2. Buell currently has "enough" examples of degraded reflectors in their possession. 3. One unlucky individual has already experienced the next to worst scenario...FIRE. At what point is it time to err on the side of caution? }Frankly, if I owned an XB I'd be pissed and optimistic. I wish I had the experiences with Buell you've had, I can understand your optimistic stance...however I have zero experience with Buell prior to buying my 12R last July. As the headlamp issue is the only complaint I've had, it's the only thing I have to gage how they're going to look out for me( I'm not personal friends with the guy who's name adorns the airbox cover) after the sale. "I maintain that few folks have an appreciation for the root cause of the problem or the magnitude of the solution. }Tell me(and BMC)the root cause so I too may appreciate it and understand the magnitude of the solution. Nobody can tell me anything but ...wait. | ||
| Hkwan |
Waiting might be OK if a reasonable timeline of what will be done is given by BMC. But if BMC took back a hand full of defective housing and determines that the problem is being worked on then they might think the XB-R owners are just bunch of kids born yesterday. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I don't claim to know jacksquat about the events that must transpire in order for this problem to be solved, whether by Buell or the manufacturer. Really? From my perspective, you sure want people to think you DO know what's going on... Statements such as: Buell currently has "enough" examples of degraded reflectors in their possession. Can you please enlighten us all that "aren't in the know" how many Buell has, and how many it will take to analyze the situation? What if Buell handed you some "new and improved" headlights tomorrow, only to find out that they were rushed in to production. We'd certainly have you going on and on about how crappy of a company BMC is for not testing enough. It's a catch-22. Production planning takes time. Testing takes time... Etc... People will whine because they aren't getting a solution fast enough. People will whine if the new solution came out without enough testing involved. I'm sorry for your headlight troubles. But really, give it a rest. We get the picture. You're unhappy. | ||
| Ridrx |
Steve, First let me say, I look forward to seeing your finished project. The sentence says "I don't claim to know jacksquat about the events that must transpire in order for this problem to be solved, whether by Buell or the manufacturer." Can you please enlighten us all that "aren't in the know" how many Buell has, and how many it will take to analyze the situation? I have never claimed to be, or intentionally implied that I am "in the know" about anything...Buell sent out letters requesting examples of degraded reflectors, after they received X number(?) of examples, Buell began replying that they had all the examples they needed.I don't have clue as to how many are needed but apparently Buell does, and has that number of examples in their possession. }What if Buell handed you some "new and improved" headlights tomorrow, only to find out that they were rushed in to production. We'd certainly have you going on and on about how crappy of a company BMC is for not testing enough. It could be said that it appears they have already met the "not testing enough" criteria based on the current generation of Firebolt headlamps. If you'll read my posts in the Court in Session board you will see that I have said outright(more than once) I do NOT want a rushed solution, I DO understand it takes time...contrary to what you may think. My biggest issue is that this gen. of lights( I'm guessing they are the same03-07?) have been around for 5yrs,my bike was not even 6mos. old/5k when they had begun dimming,so I feel confident Firebolt owners before me have discovered this and requested some assistance from Buell. Yet Buell approaches this(IMO) as if it is some shocking new discovery. People will whine because they aren't getting a solution fast enough. People will whine if the new solution came out without enough testing involved.} I can wait...but, for how long?,and is this the SAME "testing" that produced the reflective coating on the current parts? I hope not. | ||
| Leeaw |
Riding my wife's SV650 at night for the first time in who knows how long, I have to say my XB light sucks! I am less than optimistic not about Buell ponying up and buying me a new light, but rather the fact that I cannot just order a new one for the rational fear that I will get the same thing. Do we all just not ride until there is a resolve? That is what I did with my M2 when I paid for it 4 days before the whole no-delivery mess. Still wearing the Vanson jacket I got out of that though. | ||
| Hkwan |
Srlorg, I for one will be interested in a kit. | ||
| Deltablue |
I too would contemplate a kit. Not to wade too deeply into the fray....but. Court, while I appreciate everything you pass along to the board, there is a secondary underlying problem. There are plenty of aftermarket auto headlights out there using the "angel-eye" concept. Most if not all of them include projector assemblies, assemblies which are made out of metal! It seems to me if anyone with some auto parts contacts made some calls they could probably find a line on some replacement assemblies made of metal which would alleviate the problem of most Bolt riders. However the trouble is should any of our vendors tackle this problem, and expend the energy necessary to broker the deal and supply a large majority of us with new assemblies, Buell could turn around the next day and issue a recall, and those vendors would be stuck with a lot of wasted time and money. Understandably, they are hesitant to waste the time with a what is believed to be imminent solution from Buell. The problem is few if any of the people working on a solution...from either end.... are riding the bolt daily, which leaves those of us that do with less than ample resources to deal with this problem. Which leaves us making changes to our Buells that should not need to be made. NONE of us should have to cut up our fairings just to receive ample light! I for one would purchase an interim assembly from anybody that addressed as much of the problem as possible at this point, and was a relatively direct swap. | ||
| Pragmatic |
First off I have a Lightning which does not seem to have the problem. Buells are not the only bike with light problems. My Bandit gets deposits on the inside lens and light output goes form poor to lousy. Its a well known problem the Suzuki has ignored. One solution using the Hellas can be found at: http://cabuhs.net/headlights.htm Also as far as Buell solving the problem, no matter who the manufacturer is the solution will take time. They have a contract with the light manufacturer (whose terms we don't know). I'm sure they are negotiating with them to get a solution it just takes a lot more time then we realize. | ||
| Blake |
Ridrx, I understand frustration and dissatisfaction. I reject absolutely your accusations and assumptions. You are way out of line. I've asked privately that you put forth a constructive effort on this issue. You apparently are unwilling to honor that request. Your ranting is tiresome, unhelpful and unwanted; your accusations are irresponsible and entirely out of line; you are way out of line. You have no idea of the facts concerning Buell's response and activity on this issue, and you obviously have no understanding of or appreciation for the magnitude of effort, complexity and innovation required to effect a reliable long term solution to some problems, especially when they involve a subcontractor or vendor. Your irresponsible emotion-driven ranting is entirely unhelpful and unwanted here. I am asking that you please limit your comments about the issue on BadWeB to statements of absolute fact and/or thoughtful constructive suggestion/dialogue. A strictly analytical approach to the issue is the only one that will yield positive results. Reporting and gathering data on problematic headlights is analytical. Suggesting that folks report their Firebolt headlight problem to the NHTSA is constructive and helpful. Pretending to know Buell Motorcycle Corporation's overall response, activity, and plan of action concerning the problem is dishonest. Assuming with no statistical basis/proof that all Buell Firebolts are affected by this issue is not analytical; it in fact is technically and scientifically irresponsible. Stick to the absolute facts. Have you submitted any form of written complaint to your dealer and/or Buell Motorcycle Company? If not, why? | ||
| Ridrx |
Blake, I've asked privately that you put forth a constructive effort on this issue.You apparently are unwilling to honor that request. ?????????????????????????????????????????} }I never received any such request. In light of such request, I'll post nothing further about the subject. | ||
| Steve_mackay |
I took a short 250 mile ride this afternoon/evening after installing the Hellas & firebolt fairing on my STT. Something vibrated loose on my low beam connections, so I swapped the low and high beam connectors. I can tell ya 1st hand, JUST the low beam is brighter than having both low and high beam on the previously stock lightning setup. If you're having troubles with you firebolt lights, get the Hellas. They are worth every $, and every minute you spend installing them. |
