| Author | Message | ||
     Shakeybender |
I've got a 04 XB12R. Last year the belt broke and dealer replaced it with upgraded belt. This required new front and rear pulleys. So I want some opinions. It seems to me to have lost some torque/grunt at the low end. I've heard some people have swapped in a 03 9r set of pulleys and gained some back at the cost of a little gas/top speed. Has anyone taken a comparison of the upgrade belt ratio to 04 stock on a 12r? I know gear ratio changes are now made thru the primary gears on the later models. Sum it up does anyone know the difference in ratio of a stock 12 Gates setup compared to the new Goodyear on a 12. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Anyone else want to tackle this one?  There seems to be a bit of confusion here. Not that unusual when a Harley Dealer is involved in Buell technical issues. If I recall the situation properly, it goes like this. 1. The 2003 Model XB9 had a Gates belt which had a smaller rear sprockets. Nicer looking in my opinion. The belt was narrower perhaps, and thinner, and weaker, and had a different pitch, that is to say, number of teeth per inch than the 2004 belt. 2. In 2004, the Gates belt was thankfully dropped as original equipment, although allegedly improved versions were available from Buell. The 2004 belt was manufactured by Goodyear, and was thicker, and stronger with a different pitch. As it was less flexible, it required larger sprockets, and different belt guards and tensioner. 3. In 2006, the Goodyear belt was upgraded, and made to be 'unbreakable". A description turned out to be a slight exaggeration. 4. While the gear ratios of the Nine and the Twelve differ, this is due to different primary drive ratios. So now to your questions. 1. If your dealer replaced your pulleys and belt on a 2004, it was not because it was required by the new belt. All XB 12 models have the same pulleys. Perhaps the pulleys were damaged when the belt broke. Perhaps you got ripped off. Perhaps the dealer didn't explain something properly. 2. When people talk about switching to 9 gearing, ( as I have), they are talking about replacing the primary chain and rear primary sprocket. This reduces the gearing about 10% increasing acceleration and reducing top speed. 3. Therefore there is no difference between the Gates 12 ratios and the Goodyear 12 ratios, because there isn't any Gates belt for the XB 12. Did I get that right, anyone? As you may have suspected, I run chain myself. | ||
| Shakeybender |
Hello Jon. Thanks for the post. I have a 03 9 gates belt and rear sprocket. The sprocket measures about 10 inches. MY 04 12 sprocket is about 11 & 1 half inches. I am unwisely thinking of swapping them. I just need a 03 transmission side pulley. I know that this is low budget but since I have the 2 items already whats the harm in trying it out.. Anyone save their 03 9 gates front pulley after the upgrade? I promise I won't even post if it all goes south on me. How about 30$ + shipping? | ||
| Xb9ser |
I have 03 pulley and will take $20 + shipping I went to chain. | ||
| Neb25 |
The 06 belt is supposed to be unbreakable? Is there anyone out there who has had a 06 belt break? I ask because I had my 04 belt broke on me and HD replaced it with what they said was an 06 belt. If it is really that good it would give me a piece of mind. | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Shakey, I must say that this does not appear to be a really wonderful idea. "Unwise" is the word you used. I must wholeheartedly agree with that assessment. Gearing wise, I believe that you will find that the gear ratio with the Gates belt is the same as the Goodyear : 2.4 to 1. Thus you will get no gearing benefit. What you will get is a smaller rear sprocket which looks nicer, and is lighter.You also will need a different belt tensioner assembly. You will also get a belt that was never designed to take the torque of the Twelve, and wasn't even strong enough for the Nine, and so is almost guaranteed to break, just when you don't want it to. Having a belt break whilst underway can range from desperately dangerous to fatal. Very few who have experienced it are in any hurry to do it again, am I right, my brothers? If you insist on fooling around with your final drive, why not get one of Saintly's Chain conversions? I think they cost around $200, don't break, and allow you to change your gearing to your hearts content. Many brothers have joined the "Chain gang" and almost all of them are extremely pleased to have done so. Think about it, ok? | ||
| Brineusaf |
Neb This is a 2006 Model belt, on a 2006 model bike. This had just over 5K miles on it when discovered. Who knows how long it had been damaged before I spotted this obvious area.  | ||
| Shakeybender |
Thank Jon I will give that time to percolate thru my head. Rest assured safety comes first. I have a family to consider.  | ||
| Firebolteric_ma |
RUN THE CHAIN!!!!! G_Jon is correct above...  | ||
| Xb9ser |
i run a chain but will sell U the pully if U want | ||
| Fullpower |
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| Icon12r |
Looks like Al isn't selling the chain conversion kit. Any idea where one could be found? | ||
| Diablobrian |
Saintly? | ||
| Saintly |
Gearing wise, I believe that you will find that the gear ratio with the Gates belt is the same as the Goodyear : 2.4 to 1. Thus you will get no gearing benefit. Gent Jon is right. There is no difference in the drive ratio between the 03' setup and all others. You will be making a big mistake by going to the flawed 03' design. Is there anyone out there who has had a 06 belt break? I believe there have been 3 badwebbers within the past year who had 06' & up belts fail. Wolfridgerider was I believe, the most recent victim. (Message edited by saintly on April 24, 2007) | ||
| Brineusaf |
Any idea where one could be found? If you don't want to spend big money on a conversion send a PM to Saintly, and if you persuade him nicely he might disclose some information. If in the odd event you do want to sink alot of money into a conversion checkout the sponsor section, Al currently is in the process of getting a less expensive one, but I'm pretty sure Trojan has some available. Is there anyone out there who has had a 06 belt break? As stated above, mine was stripping teeth. Discovered 2 weeks or so ago. Picked up the bike last week from the dealership, where the belt was replaced under warranty. Belts are expensive, in the event they stop replacing them under warranty... I'm going to chain. | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
buy the chain conversion from saintly and you'll never look back. the belts are pretty cool but they still need a little more r&d. specifically in the "failure mode", a little warning would go a long way. brine was lucky, it's unusual to find any warning signs. | ||
| Xb12s_streetdemon |
I have an 05s and i have 13000mi I just noticed that my belt is a little loose. if i grab it and move it up and down it moves probably and inch and a half. I have looked over the belt and it shows minimal signs of wear. no cracks or nicks and no marks on the sprockets. i was just thinking of replacing it preventivly. what do you think? | ||
| Olinxb12r |
I have broken 1 04 belt and 1 06 belt. If there really is only three people on badwebb, we must be the three coolest badwebbers! Ha ha. The 04 belt lasted me 7k and the 06 lasted me 5k. With that being said I ride like a hooligan (or idiot, add your own descriptive word here).... The 04 belt snapped clean in half which makes me think I probably didn't have to much to do with it, but the 06 belt peeled off teeth like pictured above and I think that is my fault. I ride a lot of wheelies, and most of the time they are in 3rd gear which is a ton of stress on a belt. When this 06 belt breaks I'm switching to a chain. | ||
| Xb9ser |
the reason i would sell 03 pully is i have a saintly chain conversion. | ||
| Fulgur |
Just something to keep in mind. I had a 05 belt snap on me as I was accelerating up a slight incline onto the motorway. As well as the belt being broken (obviously), it wrecked the rear wheel bearings (mainly the one on the belt side) and shortened the life of the transmision sprocket bearing too. I made the mistake of having the dealer fix it (warranty you understand) and the monkeys nearly killed me when the rear wheel bearing exploded out on me at about normal motorway speed. They didn't change it out. It caused a whole lot of other damage and a big argument ensued. The bearings in the tension wheel didn't like it either. The amount of energy hitting these bearings must have been immense when the belt broke (oh and only a 100 km after they were checked at a service as good). Best anyone who has one snap check out the bearings good or if under warranty insist that they are changed anyway. (oh and by the way when I used to snap chains on a seriously hopped up GPZ I built a few years back, it would always wreck the rear wheel bearing on the chain side - every time). .....Fulgur. | ||
| Motorfish |
I just had the belt replaced on my 06 Uly, with 5000 miles. It had cracks between the teeth and was riding off the rear pulley about 1/16th of an inch. Liberty H-D/Buell replaced it under warranty. They seem to be a great dealer. The first dealer I went to, where I bought the bike,said,"Aw, those belts are real strong and they might move around on the pulley a bit. It`s OK". Thanks for nothing, Bozo. I`m impressed with Liberty, they "speak" Buell.How much are the chain kits?   | ||
| Brineusaf |
If there really is only three people on badwebb, we must be the three coolest badwebbers! I think you've hit the nail on the head!  | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Thanks for the photos, Fish. They clearly illustrate the cause of many belt problems. I guess this is as good a place as any to start a discussion of the design of the belt itself. It is simply faulty. As anyone who is familiar with Kevlar knows, that while is it a very strong material, it has several properties that make it unsuitable for this use: 1. It absorbs water, which causes it to rot. 2. The belts are "Sliced" from a larger pieces, exposing the kevlar fibers to the weather at the edge of the belt. In addition, cracks open up in the face of the belt due to constant flexing that probably allow for water infiltration there as well. 3. Kevlar's normal failure mode is sudden rupture, which is exacerbated by turning around small diameter pulleys. This is because the material is both abrasive and brittle. I learned to hate this material when I used to race sailboats. Kevlar cored rope was popular, as it was strong for its diameter and didn't stretch, but it would often break with no warning. Eventually I got rid of it: it was just too dangerous on a 53 foot race boat where loads on the sheets were in the several thousand pound range, and someone could get seriously injured if a line let go. 4. There are other fibers such as Spectra that don't fail as abruptly as Kevlar, but they have other problems such as creep: slow elongation over time. 5. If the stock belts had sealed edges, I believe the problem might be alleviated, as one never hears of Kevlar failure in tires where the material is protected from water. 6. Bottom line: at this point in time, standard roller chain is the preferred secondary transmission material, which is the reason Buell specifies it on their racing bike, and every other sport bike on planet earth uses it. Just my .02ยข | ||
| Motorfish |
I like the low noise level, no maintenance, and what I though was longer life than a chain, but with these things happening, it leaves me with a rotten feeling in my gut. I like to tour on this bike, far from home. I had pretty good luck with my FXR`s belt, but they don`t put out the power of the Buell, and they are wider. The chain may be in my future, but from what I hear, it isn`t cheap, and this is a NEW bike. It just shouldn`t be. Maybe a re-design is the answer, but it is a VERY good point that the race bikes have chains. | ||
| Aatch |
so, can someone clarify the cost of converting to chain? i've seen the chain conversion kits from Trojan, and i believe they're expensive (to the tune of $7-800) it was mentioned in a link above that conversions from Saintly are only around $200. What accounts for that price difference? and how is the quality of Saintly's stuff? reading all this about possible belt failures has got me thinking about joining the chain gang...also, for those of us with less than stellar wrenching abilities, how easy/difficult is it to do this mod yourself? | ||
| Hammer71 |
Saintly's kit is top notch and good quality parts. You would need to swap out your idler with him as it needs to be modified. Install is very easy and can be done in a half hour or so. | ||
| Rd3501 |
So my 2003 belt on my 9R is still working. I was going to upgrade to the newer stuff that everyone kept taking about....But after reading all the problems with the unbreakable belts..seems Buell never really fixed anything..So I guess I will just buy another 2003 belt when it breaks and save me some money too.. | ||
| Bhmax |
Don't have an xb yet, but one thing about them that interests me is the belt. I like the uniqueness of that and everything else. I love the twisties, and one thing I've heard mentioned is the smoothness of getting back on the throttle when leaned over with regards to the belt. Has anyone missed that when going to a chain? | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Two words: N O There is a shock absorbing mechanism built into the primary drive that takes care of it. By the way, the belt does not really act like a cush drive either: it is made of Kevlar, and has very little stretch. |
