| Author | Message | ||
     Holling |
First let me say I love my 03 9s. But I think it is time for Buell to break away from old Harley engine tech. and build a water cooled DOHC engine with approx. 120 h.p. The XB models are so high tech, yet they are saddled with a primitive engine. Will Harley not allow Buell to break free from air cooled- pushrod designed engines? I cannot consider buying a new XB until this change takes place. Just my 2 cents. | ||
| Isham |
Doesn't the XBRR put out 150? I don't consider that old tech. | ||
| Slaughter |
Take your place in a long line of Buell hopefuls. Not like this is the first time this has been wished for. Be curious to see how the MotoST series takes off next season and how Buell responds to it. Problem is that the liquid-cooled, four-valve motors don't make much sense for class racing since they'd be facing the big Ducks, Aprilias, RC-51, all those kinda bikes. If they don't race, they are not going to have any sportbike credibility. Racing costs big bucks and if not racing at a high level, it's only embarrassing. They'd have to kill their RR program to start developing a twin like you (and others) are hoping for "someday" | ||
| Darthane |
"High-tech" doesn't directly translate into "better", remember that first and foremost. Viper still uses a pushrod engine...doesn't the Corvette as well? I like the simplicity of air-cooled engines, personally, but to each his own. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
The RC51 has been Honda's top v-twin dog for a long time now...but aren't they notorious for running hot, terrible ergos, and a punishing suspension? You'll always end up with a compromise somewhere with any bike. That's the thing, find the bike that fits you with the least amount of compromise. Personally I like the ole lump in my XB but that doesn't mean I'll keep it forever. (Message edited by Hattori_Hanzo on July 18, 2006) | ||
| Davefla |
Today I was reading MO's write-up on the KTM 950 Supermoto and wondering how much physical packaging difference there is between that engine and the XB's. The SuperDuke is expected to be injected and have 100 RWHP in a 75-degree, 990cc, DOHC 4-valve configuration. I wonder how soon we'll see them at Polaris/Victory dealers, or if there will ever be a Victory 'streetfighter' while they are partnered with KTM. But if that's 100RWHP from shims and buckets, plus cooling system maintenance, then you can have it. I'll stick with my 'antique' XB12, maybe put on an exhaust/filter/remap combo, and still not need to do much more than change oil and tires. In the end, engineering is all about trade-offs. The Rolls-Royce Merlin and its derivatives were fairly awesome DOHC, water-cooled engines - but they still didn't replace air-cooled radials in every aircraft design. Edit: Just looked at your profile Holling- you're older & surely more experienced with hop-ups than me. You must know all this stuff already, so nevermind my rambling, please. What doesn't your XB9S setup have that you want from it? (Message edited by davefla on July 18, 2006) | ||
| Aldaytona |
If it aint broke, don't fix it. A lot of us WANT the HD "farm tractor" type power plant. Torque is fun. Lots of other brands to buy if you gotta have all them horses. Leave us with our solid engines and low maintenance. If I wanted a Jap bike, er metric bike, er no, Jap bike, I would buy one. | ||
| Sokota |
Keep it air cooled , 60 degree V twin , 100 to 120 rwhp ,8000 rpm of same broad torque power , gear drive primary ,shrink wrapped trick looking motor , 25 lbs lighter. 100mm bore x 80mm stroke | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
>>The RC51 has been Honda's top v-twin dog for a long time now...but aren't they notorious for running hot, terrible ergos, and a punishing suspension? To be fair, suspension and ergos have nothing to do with engine design. As far as running hot, you want high performance, you're going to get heat. Especially when wrapped in full plastic. | ||
| Xlcr |
The engine we will eventually see is a street version of the RR. There is no reason it can't make 115-120 HP on the street. Look at a picture of it and note the beautifully done die-cast cases. Dies are very expensive to produce, and it's rarely done unless the intention is to build a great many cases. Ducati is building 400 Desmodicis a year, and yet they have sand-cast cases. Do you really think a company as tight as Harley would spring for dies just to make 50 bikes? | ||
| New12r |
Pass on all water cooled bull crap! More parts to fool with. I have 32k on my buell and I dont need 120hp to school some dude in the mountains! How many of you can honestly say you can ride the bike to its limits? Really, HOW MANY OF YOU? Everyone wants more power this, more power that, try improving your riding skills first! Most of you wanting more power still cant slide the back end out of a corner at full tilt, so why do you NEED more power? I dont want to hear for the straights cuz you aint on a track. Sorry for the rant, just my .02. | ||
| Percyco |
"I think it is time for Buell to break away from old Harley engine tech" NOPE......Not in this life time, what drew me to a Buell XB was the V-Twin-pushrod farm tractor engine. If it had something else it wouldnt be the same. I for one do not want "the same ole'thing as everyone else". Oh....did I mention that my other bike is a Harley Davidson ?  | ||
| Pupu |
yeah, without that v twin harley in there it would no longer be a buell. i like the old tech, otherwise i would have not bought it. if they went to a different motor, i would not consider buying another one. | ||
| Perry |
And maybe I'm alone here, but how about a bit of counter balance? I don't mind SOME vibration, but idling in traffic actually gives me a headache from the shaking! | ||
| Mb182 |
The KTM 950 (990) is an impressive motor. smaller than the 1200 buell.. But they have shim on the valves and water cooled. not reaL attractive motor. Dealer network is even worse than Buells - especially for anything over the 640 bikes.. Most KTM dealers never bellied up to be able to get the 950's. after working with the KTM dealers in IN, I went with the Uly over the 950SM. also KTM owners drool over the acCessories we have available.. Buells are a nich bike if you want to go 160 there are plenty of Jap bikes out there for you... MB | ||
| Thepup |
How many of you,when buying a car say "that water cooling sure is a drawback,so many parts and complicated".There is a reason VW went to water cooling.Yamaha doesn't need valve adjustments for 24,000 miles or so. | ||
| Eexb |
Your point ??? | ||
| Tbs_stunta |
>>Yamaha doesn't need valve adjustments for 24,000 miles or so Buells don't need valve adjustments...ever. | ||
| Davefla |
Perry, sounds like you're getting to the point of the issue. I'd like a bit more smoothness off-idle from my 1200, in both throttle response and vibration... Packagingwise, just how much bigger *is* a Twin Cam, anyway?  | ||
| Holling |
Yes, I agree that the current engine has enough power for the street, but there are times when I launch WOT down the country highway and wish it had more power. I also get tired of people complaning on this board about engine heat and fan noise. A water cooled design would largely eliminate these problems. Also XBs could run 12:1 comp instead of only 10:1. Easy way to build more power! | ||
| Pupu |
that just puts more stuff on the bike that can go wrong. so instead of complaining about engine heat and fan noise, they will complain about water pumps and leaking radiators and whatever else they can find wrong with anything that will ever be built. | ||
| Thepup |
Your point ??? That worrying about the complexity and and added parts of water cooling is a joke. Buells don't need valve adjustments...ever. Most ppl who ride would never need a valve adjustment if it had to be done at 24,000 miles. | ||
| Pupu |
my point is that there is nothing wrong with the bike now, it is what it is, there are other bikes that fit the criteria that people are looking for, and people will always complain about whatever they are on. people complaining about the heat and fan now is a joke. | ||
| Thepup |
Pupu.I understand what you are saying,but watercooling and OHC aren't rocket science.The Buell way of doing things are no better than any other bike manufacturer,just different. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
To be fair, suspension and ergos have nothing to do with engine design. And I wasn't saying it did...what I was saying is that the whole package leads up to some compromises. As far as running hot, you want high performance, you're going to get heat. Especially when wrapped in full plastic. And there's the compromise I'm talking about! Personally, I'd love to get the chance to ride an RC51, and could see owning one sometime down the line. | ||
| Pupu |
i know, that is what is so nice about them, being different. i admit that there are better ways to get more power and be more efficient, but if i wanted that, i would have bought that. maybe i am bias cuz i like the bike just the way it is. i dont need any changes. | ||
| Speedfreaks101 |
I want a overdriven 6th gear. I know Mr Buell says that the bike does not need it but I pay the fuel bill and would like to be able to cruise at a lower rpm on the highway. After all this is a torque engine so it can cruise at a lower rpm with out struggling. | ||
| Bugman |
I like my XB12 fine just the way it is. Sometimes old is good. | ||
| Aldaytona |
Ah, I remember when motorcycling was a manly thing, no electric start, no wimpy hydraulic clutch levers, no rubber mounted or counterbalanced engines, no 26 inch seat heights or lowering kits, no bar risers for bad backs, no gel pads or rider backrests, when 2 cylinders was enough and people bought motorcycles to ride, not to bastardize. When the nicest people hadn't yet discovered Honda. About 95% of the posers on HD bikes now are the same guys who used to lock their doors and look away when my brothers and I pulled up next to them in traffic 25 years ago on our Shovelheads.................Yes, sometimes old is good. | ||
| Buellfirebolt31 |
Can someone clear this up for me....Will a SV 650 "walk circles" around the XB12's? this guy keep telling me that his will "walk circles" around my bike....i laugh at him, but will someone gimme something really good to say to him next time he says it...thanks |
