| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_A |
I was surprised there wasn't a KR-750 on there either... | ||
| Timbo |
Mikej, I have not seen the poster yet, but space may have been a consideration when deciding what models to include on it. The designers may have decided to include two Buells, and figured the S2 and the Blast would best represent the Buell line (notice I said "designers", not me). Actually, when I think about it, I'm kinda surprised Harley even included any Buells on a 'hundred years of Harley' poster. They seem so afraid to alienate the hardcore faithful with anything less than traditional. And to be fair, if Buell does a 'twenty five years of Buell' poster in 2008 would they put a Harley model on it? Don't get me wrong, it isn't that I don't think Buell is deserving. It's just that they are different. Kinda like putting a Corvette on a Cadillac poster (both made by GM). Dontcha think? Timbo | ||
| Dynarider |
I think Harley would put the Blast on their poster. Didnt they design it? It does say Harley davidson on the speedo too. My X1 doesnt, but the wifes Blast did, why is that? | ||
| Prof_Stack |
Dyna - I think HD intended all along that the Blast be a small step up to a Sportster or big twin or maybe a larger Buell. For me it was a step to the XB9S, what the Sportster used to represent in it's infancy, IMHO. The Blast was the most reliable cycle I ever owned, based on the 10k miles I put on it. Most fun, too. Would Harley be wise to repackage the Blast as a HD Sprint, complete with chrome and cruiser package? Heck, it's as rideable (or moreso) than the XLH883. | ||
| Rick_A |
Harley was responsible for the idea, not design. | ||
| Dynarider |
Norm, Harley intends every on every Buell being nothing more than stepping stone to a big twin bike. Read any dealers comments or even those right outta the mother ship & they state their desire is to get everyone on a Harley big twin, not a Buell. Even my local dealer who is very big into the whole Buell scene..well except for getting them fixed properly... says that he wants all Buell owners to "move up". | ||
| Stormfool |
Like the "Jeffersons"? | ||
| Paroyboy |
I always thought I was a** backwards! I went from a big twin to a Buell. Go figure! | ||
| Prof_Stack |
Yeah Paroyboy - I've got a big twin in the garage now with a new playmate, the XB9S. Poor Electra-Glide just doesn't have the excitement of the Lightning. But it does a great job as the pack mule when the two go out touring. Maybe it's another mid-life crisis, but to me the Buell is about riding and having fun. The big-twin is more about styling while riding a (comfortable) time machine. | ||
| Paroyboy |
Thats exactly how I described the purchase of my Firebolt, a mid-life crisis. Traded the Electra-Glide Classic. It was great for trips but when you only do one or two trips a year, it was more of a hassle than a bike. | ||
| Rick_A |
Hell, if'n I were selling the things I'd be trying to get people to step down to a Buell, then, I guess! I've already converted one Harley rider I go to school with...and a lot more are interested. | ||
| Steve_A |
>>I MUST get my hands on Steve Anderson's article. I suspect it is much more objective. << Thanks all for the nice comments on my articles in "The Harley Century." I wrote chapters on the development of the Twin Cam engine (I spent two days at Harley's PDC interviewing most of the involved engineers), on Buell (with a sidebar on Erik), and on Harley's future. If anyone wants a copy, Amazon has it relatively cheap at $35 (keep in mind it's a big book): http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0760311552/qid=1041354630/sr=8-1/ref=sr_8_1/002-4201039-8668861?v=glance&s=books&n=507846 | ||
| Blake |
"keep in mind it's a big book" That's an understatement! It is chock full of big beautiful photographs too. Nice work! Now, how about some help explaining the detrimental effects of angular momentum as it effects getting a motorcycle to turn at high speeds. I need all the help I can get  | ||
| Ar15ls1 |
Do you think that Harley Davidson will put the xb motor in the new sportster and call it the xr-1000. I think it would sell!! It would be a 12 second sportster, the fastest harley next to the vrod! | ||
| Mikej |
If they do that then it will have a new frame. Maybe the "new" Sportster will be | ||
| Reepicheep |
I bet the Sportster gets the XB12 engine, just an XB9 with bigger jugs / pistons and tuned for torque, probably leaning a little away from the current cruiser look and more towards a dirt tracker look. About a month after the time of the announcement, I bet both current XB's get a bump up as well, but will be tuned a little more towards top end. Once the real world reliability has been established with the existing Buells, it would be a simple and straightforward manufacturing and design change, especially for the original manufacturer... would add very little cost to the bike... most of it regulatory, and with the volume of sportsters Harley sells, that quickly approaches zero. Aaron has been REALLY quiet about this whole topic  I bet he and those Nallin boys have built up an XB12 already, and I am dying to know what the final package ends up hitting, and if it looks to be reliable. I bet their performance target will be the Honda F4i. And I bet they beat it. The XB's will end up with every bit as much power, and better handling, and a better power delivery curve. A really world class sport bike. They will get there with twice the displacement of the Honda, but people get way too uptight about that. A two stroke engine has twice the power for the same displacement as a water cooled overhead cam inline four. A watercooled overhead cam inline four has twice the power for the same displacement as a pushrod aircooled Vtwin. Big deal. I want my bike to be the best street bike it can be, not a detuned race bike. I don't want a high strung dremel tool of a street bike just because the lookalike racebike ancestor had to hit high performance numbers at less displacement. You would be a fool to race a bike that is built to emphasize good all around power delivery over top end power without regard to displacement. But I think you would be a fool as well to ride a streetbike that was tuned for top end power with artificially limited displacement at the cost of the across the board power delivery curve. Different tools for different jobs. For example, if I had my choice of my Cyclone to be magically transformed to have the engine from either a TL-1000 or a GSXR-750, I would take the TL engine in a heartbeat. I don't think I would rank the GSX engine above my current 1200 cc engine. What I care about is the character of the power delivery of my engine, the sound of it, the reliability of it, and the weight / packaging dimensions of it. I could care less about displacement. Top end power is cool, but on my average ride of 2 hours, I spend maybe a total of 3 minutes at "peak power", if even that. I have to listen to the damn thing every second of every minute of every ride. I *love* how my Cyclone sounds, even with the stock exhaust. So my suspicion would be that we see the XB1200 engine in the new sportster tuned for torque. Harley announces it, gives it a month or so for the Harley faithful (who are going to have to pay a 50% premium for it over what we will pay) to feel special, then looses the same engine on both existing XB's and the new Buell sport tourer. Picture an XB12S and XB12R. 93 or so HP at the rear wheel stock, 103HP at the rear with a race kit, everything else roughly the same on the bike. Talk about checkbook bait... Yikes! | ||
| Lornce |
Reepicheep, I like the way you think and I hope you're right. Lornce | ||
| Mls1 |
Rumor mill is saying that at the January Dealer convention in Orlando HD will give more info regarding the XB style engine (possibly in the 1200cc range) in the Sporty. And very likely a 1200cc Buell along with a touring version of the XB. Just a rumor but I heard it from the GM of a Harley dealer. I think it would be great for both lines to have a 1200cc XB engine. | ||
| Sarodude |
The thing I keep reading on here is that there's the impression that nobody would dare stick a short stroke crank in an XL case or stick a long stroke crank in an XB case. Let's try to be somewhat openminded about things here. Surely there are other benefits to the XB engine over the XL engine beyond the revability of the short stroke. Better oil control / breather stuff? Sturdier bottom end design? Nicer shifting tranny? Other stuff? I'd LOVE to see a SPORTster - not a shrunk down Dyna or FXR. 'Twould be cool... -Saro | ||
| Blake |
Bill, Well said! However, if they first give an XB12 engine to the Sportster, we will have a violent mutiny of the Pegasus. It wouldn't be pretty. I think they would need to release an XB12 engine in Buell form first or worst case simultaneously with the Sportster version. Maybe the sportster version would be longer stroke and the Buell version will be bigger bore. That would maintain the Sportster's cruiseresque low revving personality. | ||
| Ar15ls1 |
I prefer the bigger bore to the longer stroke anyway. I like the idea of an oversquare engine. I have seen far to many overstroked engines that have reliability problems. I think that the shorter stroke is what the little sportster engine needs. You can make big horsepower just at a higher rpm. Now I wish Buell would sell a 1050cc firebolt from the factory with a little more agressive timming and cams. | ||
| Ray_Maines |
I just can't see how there would ever be a "SportTour" version of the XB bike. Fifty two inches just isn't enough wheelbase and 3.7 gallons isn't enough fuel to do a proper SportTour bike. That's not to say that the frame can't be streched and tweeked in a dozen ways and the end result wouldn’t be a world class bike, but it wouldn't be the same XB that we’ve grown to know and love. In fact, an XB with a long, fat frame, big fairing, tall handle bars and hard bags not only wouldn’t be a decent Sport bike, it wouldn’t even be a decent touring bike. If HD makes a proper SportsTour bike with an XB engine it will have a tube frame and a real gas tank that says Sportster on it. |
