| Author | Message | ||
     X1glider |
Do you really think reliability and maintanence on rice and pasta bikes are any different than a Buell? So many people claim Buells blow up and are unreliable. Yet I hear people complain about their rice and pasta rides with this and that wrong with it as much as we do. The only time I don't hear the rice and pasta peeps complain about their problems is when someone with a Buell or Hog chimes in. Then their bikes all of the sudden become superior. Sure the rice bikes seem like a steal for the money right off the showroom floor. But that's where it ends. Take it to a shop, the hourly rate is just about equal. Parts? When it comes right down to it, depending on the complexity of the individual part or subassembly, they all seem to be about the same price. Do the work yourself? Due to the different designs of engines and frames and suspensions, is one really any harder to work on than the other? One might be easier for one problem but not another. Go to the track. There's a lot of great handling and fast bikes there. I see mechanical failures happen all day long in just about every sprint, Duc, Aprilia, Honda, Yams, zuks...all kinds. The only reason there aren't any race Buells blowing up in Texas, is because there aren't any in the CMRA...yet. The only reason I can think of for our bikes being unreliable is from what we owners do to them. They don't stay stock for long. Most rice bikes on the street simply get a new slip on or full exhaust. A lot of American V-twins get the full exhaust, intake and carb work, head work, big bore, stroked, cams, ignition, etc. We're pumping our power up to 1.5 times what it came with, where as the ricers might be adding 3-5 top end HP with their slip on. We have no one to blame but ourselves. That in mind, I developed a blown gasket in my engine case halves and tappet blocks on the HOG. Guess what caused it? A failed external Spyke Krank Vent. No one to blame but myself for putting it on and removing the umbrella valves. Guess what else, it isn't going to cost anymore to fix than a Honda VTX or Yamaha V-Star. They have equal shop rates. I'm definitely not saying the Buell is the bike to get, I have my own issues and opinions. I do know this, when it come to getting parts and accessories, the rice and pasta bikes have all the best toys are are much more readily available. And service wise, there are just as many incapable wrenches at their stealerships. We don't have that market cornered. | ||
| Budo |
Excuse me X1GLIDER but you are mistaken. More than 15 Buells have been bought back by the factory because they could not be made to run right. That was the number until that post disappeared, wonder why? A couple of people have been KILLED due to sticking throttles. A couple of people have been badly injured when the front shock mount broke allowing the front of the shock to dig into the asphalt and pole vault the rider over the bars of the bike. Several people have crashed when their rear tire was coated by tranny fluid from the overflow hose. Several of us have holed pistons due to intake seal leaks. Probably the seals should be replaced at each 10k service. Several of us have dropped valves, some more than once. I had to replace a rear wheel at 26k miles because the bearing races had enlarged the wheel bore. A common problem along with front pully failure which I also replaced at the same time. The cause? The factory specs for belt tension may be too tight causing failure of the above mentoned parts. Deanna the parts girl at Modesto said every fifth or sixth bike she sees needs a rear wheel replaced. She has warrented so many wheels that Buell has accused her of stealing wheels. Don't forget the number of people who have had numerous exhaust header studs break. Also exhaust mount failures have been common. Rocker box leaks? Don't forget the number of tranny failures when the primary chain tensoner broke. Go to the x1files and look at the list of common failures. And this list does not even address the incompetance of 99% of the dealers out there. Yeah Jap bikes have problems also. My previous bike was a Honda VFR, I put 18k miles on it and had to replace a headlight blub. The bike before that was a 1984 interceptor 500, I put 21k miles on it and had to replace a headlight blub. Before that I had a 1978 Triumph Bonneville 750. Now I did have some problems with that bike. It stranded me beside the road once. My 1998 Buell S1W has broken down and stranded me four times! So my Triumph was more reliable and had better dealer support than my Buell! Sure there are some people out there that have had no problems. They may be counted on both hands. I am the first person to say that these bikes are alot of fun, unique, attention getting, etc. But to deny that they are problematic, well then you would be in denial. | ||
| X1glider |
Hey, you had the same bike I did: VF500F. My first bike. And it is also the only ricer I ever owned. Not because it was a bad bike, it wasn't in the least. I just wanted to be like Freddie and got in over my head one day. I've owned American V-twins ever since, mainly beacuase of what it is, even though I knew there were all kinds of better choices available. I still feel that way. I never denied Buell's are problematic. That's a statement you put in my mouth. Oh, I admit Buells are problematic, I don't deny it one bit. Look at what it's based upon. That's the reason. All problems the sportys had got passed down right along side any new ones created by trying to make it a sport bike. The fork issue. I remember hearing all kinds of horror stories about that. Buying back bikes: it's possible other brands have done the same thing. Possibly another bike forum could confirm that, I don't know. Just because I haven't heard of it, doesn't mean it hasn't happened. Perhaps Buell's relationship with HD puts it in the spotlight and that's why they are judged so harshly. Go to another forum and lurk for a while, don't post. You'd be surprised at what's going on with their bikes. A friend of mine, who used to race, lives in Beckley, W.Va. and works at the Honda shop there. He gets a new CB model every year, starting with the CB750 back in 1987 to the present CBR954RR. He always finds something to gripe about. Gotta fix this, gotta fix that. So far nothing of the deadly kind. This is also the guy I bought the VF500F from. To deny that other bikes are problematic as well, well then you would be in denial. | ||
| Blake |
"That was the number until that post disappeared, wonder why?" What are you talking about? No such posts have been deleted here! "A couple of people have been KILLED due to sticking throttles. " I've heard of one such case, which is too many. However, similar incidents have happened with virtually any type/model vehicle you can imagine. "A couple of people have been badly injured when the front shock mount broke allowing the front of the shock to dig into the asphalt and pole vault the rider over the bars of the bike." Never heard of that. Please name those involved. Several people have crashed when their rear tire was coated by tranny fluid from the overflow hose. I've heard of tranny fluid being expelled, never heard of any crashes because of it. You have any names of these "several" crash victims? I'd like to know them. | ||
| Budo |
I apologize for putting words in X1glider's mouth. In rereading his post I see his postion is different. I don't have names dates and places. I have been on this board since before I bought my bike. I remember reading about the guy on a Buell demo ride. His throttle stuck and killed him. The group saw it. I have had my throttle stick on the interstate so it was not a problem. This guy had it happen as he approached a stop sign. Forced him to run the sign and there was a car and so.... I had asked if anyone know how many bikes had been bought back under the lemon law. A guy said he knew five personally and had found ten more on the web. Then Court said that kinda thing was counterproductive or served no purpose and it went away. A guy had the front shock mount break, he tried to stear it into a parking lot and the shock caught the edge of the driveway vaulting him over the handlebars. Well I don't have names dates and places. No need to because I read it all here. Over a period of five years or so. I suppose someone could comb the archives. I do know of one other bike bought back by the factory a TT600 Triumph which had a fuel injection mapping problem, guy in my club. Caused the bike to stall in traffic. The owners attorney cited it as a safety hazard and Triumph bought it back. Look, in spite of my post I like these bikes. Some of my attitude does come from dealing with my dealer. However, these bikes can be heartbreakingly unreliable. That's my opinion. As always YMMV. | ||
| Blake |
Budo, I appreciate your apparently infallible memory and meticulous gathering of hearsay on Buell buybacks, but making such serious accusations demands proof. I'll be waiting for yours. The internet, including BadWeB is NO place to blindly accept anonymous rumor as fact. I certainly don't recall anyone being pole vaulted by a broken shock mount or anything else for that matter. Not saying that it didn't happen, just that repeating internet hearsay as truth without knowing the source or pertinent facts is not a responsible thing to do. | ||
| Xgecko |
Well Budo All that you have listed was/is with the XL motor and the tube frame Buells. Now I can't speak for the XB's frame but my motor is based on it's motor and I have not had a single problem with it that wasn't caused by ME. They seem to have solved a lot of the XL issues in the new motor. A stuck throttle sounds like a mechanical issue. were the throttle cables binding somewhere??? I know mine did when I attempted to cheat a bit of extra length out of the housing. I can say with all honesty that my Buell has been extreamly reliable. Contrary to Popular Buell Myth | ||
| Blake |
Good point XG; in fact the Buell Blast won Buell the JD Power and Associates award for highest customer satisfaction for a new motorcycle. | ||
| Court |
>>>>Then Court said that kinda thing was counterproductive or served no purpose and it went away. Almost right, not quite. The "went away" happened not as a result of "Court saying" but as of folks' ability to provide proof. Look. . I know the bikes, the people and the legal enviroment pretty well. I do not beleive your story based on what I have heard thus far. I do, however, keep an open mind and am willing to listen and change my thinking. Until then, frankly, it IS counterproductive. Lemon Law buybacks are much rarer than folks think. Frankly HD and Buell go to great lengths to do anything other than buyback a bike, the "great trade" being the most frequent solution, so that the bike's title is not tagged forever. The shock stories, like the loss of a front brake drive pin at 60mph locking the front wheel (impossible, for the record) are pretty much worth the beer than spawned them. In addition, let me take the counter-corallary approach and ask...."ok, many folks have been killed/mamed/injured by the prodcuts one of America's most cash rich corporations and yet no attorney shows up representing these folks to unload $$$ from the offender". This is America, my friend. The land of the free and the home of the litigant. My riding partner just got rich with the settlement he got when a truck wheel seperated from the axle on the Verazzano Bridge and totaled the vehicle he was driving. He, for the record, was uninjured. The mega-cash was to "send a message". I'll listen to proof and am not suggesting you are wrong, but you'd loose a NYC parking ticket if you can't build the case any better. Court | ||
| Budo |
Ok, you guys are right, if I can't document the source/story then I should keep it to myself. I had to do that all thru school, no reason for it to be any different here. Xgecko is right. Everything I was railing about applies to the tube frame bikes. I hope the 'Bolt fares better. | ||
| Budo |
There is presently a discussion on sacborg, (I know, I know) about who has had the bottom end go. Interesting. However you are all correct, these are all discontinued Buell models and have nothing to do with the current bikes. I am confident that the new Buell models will compare favorably with the big four in reliability and maintenance. Hows that for a positive post? | ||
| Blake |
Budo, Though I optimistically agree, you are scaring me now.  Have you been assimilated?  "The Stepford Buellers" | ||
| Budo |
Well I do like my bike, alot. Kinda a love hate realtionship. Tho Buell has not built the bike I want, that is ok, I can buy something else. Alot of my bitterness comes from experiences with my dealer, who blows, Bumpas HD of Memphis Tn. I doubt you have seen such a bunch of friendly, know your name, pat you on the back incompetants in your life. My last experience with them twisted me up so much I put my bike up for sale, for awhile. I did not get any offers of course. After all who would buy one of these? I shoulda donated it to the salvation army and taken the tax write off. But I got off of the point. Which was that Buell has not built the bike I want. I want 100hp at the rear wheel, period! I don't care if it is air cooled or liquid cooled. I want it to have so much power it scares the piss outa me. I don't want anyone to tell me that I don't need that. I don't need a motorcycle at all. I want one. It is just like someone telling me that I don't need a dick that big! I will be the judge of that thank you very much and I will take my dick in a extra large! To go! Umm, seems I have gotten off of the point, which was, why yes I have been assimilated, yeah, that's what happened. | ||
| Xgecko |
Budo me thinks you need Nallin's 1250 kit...you seem to have the rest. | ||
| Blake |
Ya man, 90 FT-LBs will rock your world.  | ||
| Budo |
Well my bike stock dynoed at 76 hp and 74 ftlbs of torque. I did all of the usual mods, intake, exhaust and got it up ot 86hp and 84 ftlbs of torque. Then I holed the rear piston (intake seal leake) and installed nallin stage 1 heads and hurricane pistons. The bike is much more powerfull, seat of the pants. But now I have 29k miles on a five year old bike. I am not about to put another dime in it if I can avoid it. Considering the poor reliability record of my bike and the tube frame bikes in general, I feel that I am living on borrowed time. | ||
| Andrew |
I gotta pipe up here. I just got home from a 1100 mile round trip to Pittsburg, PA. So if a red Buell flew by you between Sunday and Wednesday, Hi from CT. Anyhow, the only reason the tool kit came out was to help bypass a ignition switch on a '69 shovel, that's broke down on rt 422 near New Castle, PA. The Buell ran great, never missed a beat. Got ~50 mpg at suborbital speeds. Boring story right? Well back to broken Buell tales then | ||
| Jmartz |
Budo: I have the same feelings about further mods. It is unfortunate that when I modified my bike Nallin was not offering the 1248 kit. I would have to spend another several thousand dollars to get up to the current 110. 115 is also doable if you go with the 585 lift cam form Zippers. My bike performs very well it dynoed at 103 RWHP 86 ft. lbs. of torque on its best test run back when I 1st assembled it. I can feel it is not as crisp as before but I have no intentions of refreshing it unless it leaks. What is it with these people who tell us what we don't need? Or who like to justify the Buell's lack of acceleration with its good handling? Why can I have the goal that the morcycle does it not me? "you can out run me on the flats but wait till we meet in the mountains when my superior skills will defeat you" You know what, I'm usually in the flats... | ||
| M2cyclone00 |
There's always the S&S 4X4 that Wes can assemble & mount in your steel framed Buell for you! Is 130, 140, or 155hp enough? 120 ft lbs of torque? That's my intentions once there's too many miles on mine. | ||
| Nykk |
That sounds like what I want! 120 ft.lbs. -wonder what the best possible fuel economy is with that engine. I'm going to jump over to the S&S site now (if they have one). -Nykk | ||
| Johnypebs |
To get back to the top of the page, I had a 900 Monster for a year, only trading it in after 12000 (fairly) trouble free miles while it was still worth something. The one time it did let me down was when I waited, like an idiot, for the fuel idiot light to tell me I needed petrol. It didn't. I loved it. I also love my M2 which, as soon as I fit the aluminium oil tank from Trojan Horse, will have all the factory flaws ironed out. If you buy an S4 you will need loads of money and loads of faith in whoever you give that money to for the essential servicing of the valve gear, something you won't have to worry about with a Buell. Also, if you do big miles on the S4 you might find it difficult to sell. Something else that might swing it, the Buell is made in America. | ||
| Mitchelob |
Another consideration might be that the S4 will not be sold in the US for 2003 and the M1000 will. | ||
| Budo |
Quote:Also, if you do big miles on the S4 you might find it difficult to sell. Something else that might swing it, the Buell is made in America --------------------------------------------- Buells have poor resale value regardless of the mileage. Made in America? Well parts of it are. The tube frames have numerious Jap and Italian parts. The XB9s wheels are made by a jap owned company. So, yeah parts of it are made in America. Service? The XB9s have a belt replacement scheduled every 15k miles, how much is that going to cost? | ||
| Mark_In_Ireland |
FWIW older Duke, 900SS 1991, 28000 miles in 18 months running on AGIP oil, never needed any clearance adjustments, motor 100% reliable, only failure was rectifier and severe carb icing....my Buell suffers similar problems too. I'd have the Ducati, the Buell could be the spare bike...LOL | ||
| Johnypebs |
OK. Maybe the bauxite used to make the alloy for the crankcases came from Russia aswell, the point I was trying to make was that the motorcycle IS American, designed (sort of) and built in America. The crankshaft that goes into a Triumph is, I believe, made in Spain. To me it's still an English motorcycle. In spirit at any rate. I paid £5000 for my M2 from a dealer (used, 127 miles) I can still ask £4500 to £5000 for it, and the local Buell dealer only last week offered me £4300 against a Triumph speed triple. Just window shopping, still have my Buell. My Ducati wasn't wanted back by the dealer who sold me it, even though it was draped in carbon fibre goodies I bought from them, horrified at the HUGE mileage I put on it in a year (12000). I went to the Yamaha shop instead. Servicing costs, if you have a new Ducati that means compulsory Ducati servicing. The 10000 mile service on my 900 Monster was £350, valve shimming, change timing belts, etc, then the chain threw its hand in which was another £150 for a chain and sprocket kit. Thats on a simple two valve air cooled motor. On the four valver you have to sit on the toilet before you take it into the dealer. Skimp on Ducati servicing if you dare. It's just my opinion, but it's based on actual experience. | ||
| Stormfool |
When I (just window shopping mind you) asked my dealer how much trade-in on my 2000 Millenium X1 with 18K miles (for a new XB9S) he offered 6500 USD. Not bad for that many miles--also a few nicks and dings from road debris. Problematic? Well first thing I did was change the exhaust/ECU/airfilter and then ride it EVERY day at least a hundred miles--I'm talking about 21K miles now in four months. I've probably had every minor repair you can think of (the stealership cringes every time I roll up )and the bike has left me stranded twice--primary case seal in the mountains of NC/ and a regulator in FL--it actually took less time for the Carolina HD guy to come get me from Gastonia (I was in Cherokee) than the HD/Buell guy in West Palm. Cheaper too! The Carolins dealer did not charge me for the 7 hour round trip ride he had to make/ the West Palm guys charged me $65.00 for a 20 mile tow AND for a new battery, though I had just bought one about thirty-five days earlier from my Fort Lauderdale dealer--go figger (I figger Florida dealers blow). Anyhoo--I ride each Sunday (well not this Sunday 'cause my Buell is at We Brown's shop) with a fellow who has an S4. Of course he loves it and praises it and so forth--but he only rides the damn thing on Sunday--about a hundred miles or so. As you might guess I ride a bit more than this fellow. His S4 is a lovely machine--the ergos look pretty comfortable--it'll out accelerate/outrun my Buell/but I can out manuever him on any curves (there's that skill thing again). As far as long term reliability for the S4? I doubt that bike will ever see 20K miles...Neat bike though. Then again I like just about all bikes (except loud slow cruisers of the HD ilk). | ||
| Stormfool |
As far as bumping up the torque/HP (torques is all I care about anyway) I too will reccomend anyone to Wes Brown at Cyclerama in Pinellas Park. If I can get the loot together, one of these days (when my 3 year unlimited mile warranty runs out) I plan to have Wes build me the ultimate street motor--of course by that time the Feds will probably outlaw anything except electric mopeds  In which case I plan to have the baddest coldfusion hydrogen fuelcelled megajoule moped you'll ever see! |
