| Author | Message | |||
     Buelldyno_guy |
I sat down here and started to write this with a statement of, “I think you guys in the Midwest have one of the best dealers in the country,” and that’s true I do! But what is needed, is to let all of you know that it was Al Lighten from American Sport Bike that made all this happen. He started this process last year working with TechnoResearch on a Buell software program using Direct Link. Last month after we tuned his XB12X with a Micron and Race ECM to 99 RWHP, we as a team decided not to release and sell that package until it could read and write a stock XB12 ECM correctly. It was not until today at 2:00 PM PST that I downloaded the latest version, loaded it into my ULY and confirmed that the last known issue had been corrected. I think it was last month we both posted in KV and under his banner our plans to offer packages that included performance hardware, with ECM software. There will even be some bolt on 1250 Kits with and without heads as well as a Big Bore 90 inch kit, with heads, cams and 52mm TB plus a pre-tuned ECM. Again hats off to Daves and his team, as this brings the level of tuning Buell’s to a new high, but it took a lot of work from a very ethical guy to make it happen. ... Terry PS: The guy who trained at Appleton HD was not from DL, he is a well known independent dyno trainer from Arizona. | |||
| Daves |
He spoke very highly of you Terry. | |||
| Medic_2512 |
Sorry i didn`t know all the details and how much Al was involved. Great job Al i can`t wait to get set up with a Micron and ECU. Kevin, i saw the Micron was down on power at 2000rpm also. But i figured the bike idles at 1000-1100rpm and by the time you let the clutch out your already thru that area of the powerband. Besides i never ride my Buell even close to 2000rpm, even cruising on the highway at 75mph its reving at 4000rpms. | |||
| Daves |
Yes, a big thumbs up to Al and Terry! If nothing else this shows that the results are repeatable. 2 different bikes,2 different dynos,half a country apart and almost the exact same results. Sorry, I thought he was from DL. Thought that was what he said? My bad. Still knew his stuff well. I did not have the chance to sit in on the whole thing since I had plenty of other work to do last week. Wish I could've spent more time back there in the dyno room. | |||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Thanks Daves, I have worked with him for a few years now and he taught me a lot of what I know. FYI, I just took the the Modified Micron Race ECM Data and got it to load in my Modified Stock ECM. The bikes at home so I will get it to the shop tomorrow and install the A/C and Micron. We will be back in the Dyno room by Thursday I hope. My bet is we will see a $1.02 RWHP, But Who Knows. ... Al will post our runs under his Banner after we review them confirm a few things.... Terry (Message edited by buelldyno_guy on January 18, 2006) | |||
| Al_lighton |
I'm with you, Dave...the dyno testing with this stuff was fun stuff, I live for this stuff. Terry has the greatest job!!! The accel/decel tables are definitely in the stock XB ECMs, but it's possible the algorithms don't use them the same way. Terry will know the answer to that in the next couple days. There could be other algorithm differences between race and stock ECMs that aren't reflected in the lookup tables as well. These things may make it always preferable to start with a race ECM for maximum performance. But I suspect that even without a race ECM, a pretty decent state of tune could be achieved with any intake/exhaust mods. On your closed-course-for-competition-use-only-with-potentially-voided-warranty XB motorcycle, of course  The Buell ECM is quite different than the Harley Magnetti Marelli or Delphi ECMs, and the interaction with the tables is I'm sure quite different. But the tuning processes and methods are probably still quite similar, and it sure looks like Matt's results are good. From what I've learned from Technoresearch, Matt is more than familiar with tuning with DirectLink and with specific Buell ECMs, but he hasn't tested all the combinations. I've got most of them covered and think we've uncovered most of the compatibility issues, but merely reading/writing/modfying/uploading the maps doesn't tell all. We'll know more by weeks end. Thanks Terry. Al | |||
| Gentleman_jon |
Al, Outstanding!! Thanks for all your hard work on this project. | |||
| Giu |
Hey guys,if I'm right,Kevin did 96,3 max and 77,8 torque with a normal race ecm/K&N/SS set up.So those 97,76 and far better 80,40 for the whole system is not a miracle. Well,I must say,great job from all people involved in developing this stuff but we'll see better things in close future. Really want know some more on SS mapped set up for the xb12... | |||
| Djcrysler |
Hey Dave, I sure hope you will test the force pipe. | |||
| Jerseyguy |
Giu - You are correct. Kevin asked me to post this XB12 sheet from Tillys that includes the A/F chart. This is an XB12 with Drummer SS, Race ECM, K&N and nothing else. You can see that the Buell Race ECM leaves something to be desired as far as maintaining the proper A/F ratio for maximizing power throughout the RPM range with this configuration. Kevin advises that a bit of tuning with the proper ECM might yield some interesting results. As it currently stands the Drummer SS posts a respectable chart without the need for additional tuning and the possible loss of the race ECM's closed loop adaptability.  | |||
| Al_lighton |
Jerseyguy wrote: "...without the need for additional tuning and the possible loss of the race ECM's closed loop adaptability." Just a note so that no one is confused by this. Tuning with DirectLink does NOT result in loss of closed loop adaptability. If tuned properly, quite the opposite is the result. The tuning in the closed loop domain results in the ECM not having to use AFV bandwidth to compensate for the changes in the intake/exhaust tract. A properly tuned-with-DirectLink ECM will have the AFV settle right at 100 in standard conditions after riding in learn mode. This leaves all the AFV bandwidth for compensating for changing environmental conditions, the way it is supposed to. We tested this on my Uly with the Micron and the open airbox kit. After resetting the AFV to 100 after doing all our tuning, I took the Uly out on a spin and held it in learn mode for a suitably long period. Came back, hooked it up to the Digital Tech, and it was spot on at 100. I've uploaded the product to the website, see here: http://www.americansportbike.com/shop/cgi-bin/cp-app.cgi?usr=51F18309&rnd=321748 3&rrc=N&affl=&cip=71.136.61.67&act=&aff=&pg=prod&ref=9308&cat=&catstr=HOME But hold off a day or two for our stock ECM testing results and the inclusion of the new features in the code (i.e, AFV reset). Al | |||
| Zoar |
Will the 90in. kit be for the XB's? | |||
| Holigan |
I just had my 04XB12S dyno tuned at Tampa Harley with the Direct Link. I have a Jardine pipe, stock ecu, Buell Race Filter and a modified air box ( pulled the snorkel tube out of the frame and opend the rh side of the airbox lid and opend the front of the airbox cover like the 06 )I was pleased that before tuning it made 90 hp, but after the tune it made 94 hp and 80 ft lbs of torque. The low end response if now great, no decel popping and the throttle response is crisp. It rides like a completely different bike! The Direct Link in the right hands is the ticket!
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| Jerseyguy |
Al, Sorry if I wasn't clear enough in my observation. I was thinking of my experience with the TFI. | |||
| Xb9 |
If anyone is interested in tuning with a Wideband O2 controller w/data logging setup that uses a PDA for data collection (your own rolling dyno) PM me. | |||
| Tommy_k |
Ok, so because the direct link is locked to ecm's, does that mean we all have to buy one? or does the dealer, like Tampa HD have their own that works on multiple bikes? Just a bit confused...but my bike could use it...def. runs on the lean side. Thanks, sorry if I missed the obvious. Tom | |||
| Donutclub |
Al, Are you going to include your user manual with the Directlink kit? | |||
| Al_lighton |
Tommy, The USB key is locked per ECM. So yes, you need to buy at least the $249 key. Whether you want to own the SW for an additional $99 is optional, assuming your tuning center of choice has the SW running Jeff, Yes, we will include a hard copy of the tuning guide with the SW we sell. The DirectLink SW is easy enough to use from a mechanical point of view. The documentation from Technoresearch is a bit lacking however, and there are some gotcha's that one has to be aware of. Technoresearch is supposed to send me their manual files so I can help clean them up. For all the work I've been doing for them, you'd think I was a Technoresearch employee. But I just want our customers to have a good experience with it. VDSTS for Buells got off to a bad start when it came out (buggy and didn't even work to reset TPS's at first), and I don't want DirectLink to duplicate that experience. The process for dialing the map in is not trivial at all, and proper tools (i.e., Dyno and/or wideband O2 monitoring capability) are absolutely required. Terry and I took two days of just poking values and observing the response before we started actually making great strides in the actual tuning. The internal algorithms are not displayed, and Buell/VDO can't provide that info for a number of reasons. So it took a while to characterize the "black box" response. I bet Matt probably made it look pretty easy in his tuning up at Appleton, but that comes with years of experience doing ECM mapping across multiple platforms. It is a fun process, but it isn't necessarily 100% intuitive and very fast to do if you're tuning a Buell for the first time. So I hope that we can shorten the process to successful tuning by providing a helpful guide with the SW. But most folks would probably be best served by using a tuning center that has already come up to speed on the SW, or just buying an ECM that has the map already for their combination of go fast goodies. JerseyGuy, I hear ya on the TFI. Any of the external boxes that operate outside of the compensation loops have always had their issues with regard to tuning on Buells. That is why I am so stoked that DirectLink is finally available and why I've been busting my butt to help them bring it to market cleanly. Al (Message edited by al_lighton on January 18, 2006) | |||
| M1combat |
And a big thanks to both of you and everyone else involved... Terry, Dave's dyno guys, Technoresearch etc... Good work. | |||
| Sinatra |
ok..AL...where do i buy an ecm already mapped for an xb9sx with asb airbox kit, kn, no snorkle, d and d pipe. i got money....please hurry. before i do something stupid........i did just get a PC3 off ebay for dirt cheap, but like things to stay simple. help al, im begging. | |||
| Cmm213 |
Yes what will the price be to send in a ecm and have it remapped? | |||
| Djcrysler |
What would the cost be for me to send my race ecm and have it programmed for an XB9SX with K&N, Race ECM, and Force Streetfighter exhaust? | |||
| Daves |
Guys, I am working on prices,keep your pants on already!  To do one for a Force pipe I would need a bike here with a Force pipe to do the map. Not sure how soon that will happen. | |||
| Glitch |
I am working on prices I can wait. It'll be worth it I'm sure from what I've read. Is it ready yet?  | |||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Give is a few days, Al and I have discussed pricing, and Al will post soon. Yesterday Al found another minor SW glitch in the Acell and Decell Tables it is being corrected and I will have the latest revision from TechnoResearch by this Saturday. Tomorrow the Micron and American Sport Bike Open Air Box Kit installation on my "ULY" will be finished and I will start Sunday where Al and I left off with his. ... Daves, Please let your guys know that I will be contacting Matt concerning the SW changes since he trained your guys and let him tell you what action you may need to take. ... We all want this to work but don't need a lot of bad press because of a few minor SW issues. ... Will be back here with an up-date Sun, evening. ... Terry | |||
| Lucas70374 |
I was talking with Al and I am planning on getting the Direct link soon, I am currently running the Force Exhaust. | |||
| Djcrysler |
Glad to see more talk about Force Exhaust. Sure hope there is testing and a usable program for the Force Exhaust on a XB9. | |||
| Buelldyno_guy |
A quote from my post last week. ... "Al Lighten from American Sport Bike that made all this happen. He started this process last year working with TechnoResearch on a Buell software program using Direct Link." I just got of the phone with Matt Gross it was Matt that did the training for Daves. He and I have known each other for several years and it was Matt who gave me my basic and some advanced dyno training. Matt called to tell me he started the discussions with TechnoReaserch about tuning Buells using Direct Link software 18 months ago. I apologized to him for the above statement that it was Al who started it all and I believe I needed to make that apology public here on Bad Web. It seems that in Al's discussions with TR he had no idea that they had been working with Matt. It also seems that they never told him they were working with Al. I believe as I write this that Matt and Al are discussing how this all happened. Matt has agreed to review Al's development of a DL - SW tuning. ... I stand corrected and am sorry for anyone I might have offended. ... Terry PS The "ULY" will be back in the Box this afternoon. ... More Later. ... Terry} | |||
| Whodom |
Tomorrow the Micron and American Sport Bike Open Air Box Kit installation on my "ULY" will be finished and I will start Sunday where Al and I left off with his. Based on what Al's written up to now, I suspect it won't take you too long to break that magic 100 RWHP mark....  | |||
| Diablobrian |
Terry, Sounds like a case of "double blind" trial of the software. not uncommon in other fields of research. The Buell community is just so small it's hard to keep from having paths cross. I'm sure there was no malice intended. Just a means of getting un-biased results. Disclaimer: I have no affiliation with any of these parties, other than being one of Al's, and Dave's customer. I have never had any dealings with Techno Research. |
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