| Author | Message | ||
     Buellryder246 |
It's no secret that some of the parts on our beloved "American Motorcycles" are not made in the USA. Nonetheless, I saw something today that ticked me off. I had to buy a new sidestand pivot bolt for my XB12R. Printed right on the bag the bolt came in, it said "Made in Taiwan." Genuine Buell part indeed!!! I don't know what makes me more frustrated....the nimrod American engineer that designed the whacked-out sidestand, or the fact that my "American Motorcycle" is held upright by a bolt made in Taiwan. It's kind of like the time I was at the Harley store and was going to buy a hat, until I looked at the label.....Genuine HD motorclothes - made in China. I gotta stop reading the fine print!!! | ||
| Superbee24 |
Very few items are 100% AMERICAN made. Best you can hope for is for Assembled in American. ( By foreign hands ) | ||
| Johnb |
made in China, made in Taiwan, made in Japan, made in Italy, made in Austria, made in USA. 'The new models' (Uly) are all-american in that 100 percent of its design and testing was carried out in this country. But for component sourcing, Buell turned to the best vendors of motorcycle parts wherever they are located (cycleworld) - - unfortunately for US, a global thing and our std of living may eventually . . And Yeah, the kickstand design needs looking into.. (a centerstand would be nice.)  (Message edited by johnb on December 27, 2005) | ||
| Kdan |
What is made in the U.S.A. anymore? Due to high priced labor, insurance and a ridiculous standard of living, companies can't afford to hire american manufacturers anymore. Send it where they'll hire kids to run the machines for pennies a day. every business is doing it and I'm afraid they will keep doing it until this is a third world country, with every one working at Walmart. I interface all night long with computer operations folks in Brazil who displaced operators who used to sit beside me. | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
There have been several articles praising the Engineers at Buell who design some parts using the newest and greatest manufacturing processes. The Firebolt nose cowling mount won such an award. The original S-2 design was actually 20 parts welded together. On the S3 it was 10 parts stamped and welded . The Firebolt bracket uses a state of the art investment casting process that the Engineer/Buyers found could be done in Germany. It's this type of thinking that lowered the inventory cost improved the bottom line and makes these bikes so special. ... Terry | ||
| Court |
>>>>'The new models' (Uly) are all-american in that 100 percent of its design and testing was carried out in this country. That's an inaccurate statement. Significant testing was done outside the USA. The "Global Sourcing" was no accident. The plan was presented several years ago, adopted and skillfully executed. | ||
| Court |
>>>Send it where they'll hire kids to run the machines for pennies a day. every business is doing it That, owing largely to the use of the word "every", is an inaccurate statement. 33% of the world speaks Mandarin Chinese, 7% English. The Chinese economy, regardless of how you feel about it, is the fastest growing in the world and the reason some American schools are beginning to offer Chinese. Buell sources parts and mental firepower from around the world. The imply that they do this simply to leverage the cost savings realized by making children work long hours for pennies is both inaccurate and misleading. When Buell did the frames with Verlucchi there was a team assigned to Italy who concentrated as much on business practice as the product. There are terrible abuses of human rights in many countries. Personally, I think it's a bit "abusive" for folks to pay minimum wage here in a town where a studio apartment goes for $1800/mo and the price of a single family home just passed $1M. But, it's simply inaccurate to infer that anything not manufactured in America was made by conscripted labor. If you are ever in New York City, let me give you a tour of America's most modern power plant. We went commercial with the NYPA500MW unit last Friday at 4:53PM and we are scheduled for "first fire" at the Astoria 500MW within the next 20 days. Since everything coming in the USA has to have it's country of origin prominently displayed, a walking tour provides keen, if anecdotal, insight into American trade policy. P.S. - make it quick, I a staring at retirement.  | ||
| Kdan |
I generalized, I wasn't inferring child labor, I was inferring younger people who will work for significantly less than more skilled, um..."seasoned" labor. Much like the college hires at my place of employment. If these kids knew what I was making, it'd be Norma Ray all over again. | ||
| Glitch |
a ridiculous standard of living You can always move back to Canada where the standard of living more to your liking. | ||
| Kdan |
And weed is purt near legal! Canadians are spoilt fat bastards too, it's a North American thing. (Message edited by kdan on December 28, 2005) | ||
| Mountainrider |
What is made in the U.S.A. anymore? Due to high priced labor, insurance and a ridiculous standard of living, companies can't afford to hire american manufacturers anymore. That is not true. Greed is the reason american companies use cheap labor. Our labor rates are not as high as say Japan. That is one of the reasons so many companies are moving here. For every GM plant that shuts down to go to Mexico a Toyota or Honda plant takes its place. The big three wants us to believe that labor is the reason for the high cost of vehicles. What they do not tell you is that their highest priced vehicles are made in Mexico. It is 100 percent greed. Harley has not built an american bike in years. They have assembled bikes in the US but most of them use parts from all over the world. Harley is the only company that their entire line of clothes is made somewhere besides the US. I love my Buell but it would be nice if it were american made. It is hard to brag about about beating a rice burner when Buell has so many rice parts on it. | ||
| Glitch |
I have a problem with the word greed. Greed is the accumulation of wealth through less than honest means. Any business is about making money, that's not greed, that's business. Plants aren't leaving the U.S. because of labor costs, they're leaving because of taxes. It sounds like you could be calling me greedy, I'm self-employed, my rates go up every year, some times twice a year, mainly because of the taxes I have to pay. If I want to maintain the ridiculous standard of living I'm used to I have to do this. If I could move my business to where taxes were less, would that make me greedy, just because I want my business to do well? | ||
| Grndskpr |
.Plants aren't leaving the U.S. because of labor costs, they're leaving because of taxes. i would add that some businesses are having issues because of pentions and health benifits also. The sky rocketing costs of health care are creating there own issues, and i suspect health care in some cases cost more than taxes depending on coverage and needs R | ||
| Glitch |
The sky rocketing costs of health care are creating there own issues True, but I don't pay more than 45% of my earnings to health care, I do pay more than 45% of my earnings to taxes. | ||
| Mountainrider |
Glitch I am sure there is a lot of difference between your business and a corporation like GM. I do not think anyone working for you got a multi million dollar bonus last year. They want to cut the workers pay and insurance but the top people just keep getting more and more. I have been in plant management before and I know how it works. The president of the company I used to work at talked us into taking a small raise because the company was losing money and might even close. The day after we accepted the offer all the top people received new vehicles. That was their bonus for screwing us. That is what I call greed. I do not know you yet but I would hope you would not stoop that low. Seems like I am not cut out to be on this forum. Everyone gets their feelings hurt to easy here. Not like the hooligans I am used to hanging with. I am sorry for any comments that I have made that offended you guys. | ||
| Mb182 |
American companies will continue to move plants off shore as long as people flock to Walmart to buy crap... Everyone wants high paying jobs here but no one is willing to pay the premium for US made products. How may of you buy Japan made auto's?? MB | ||
| Mikej |
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| Glitch |
I'm not offended. Just giving my point of view. | ||
| Glitch |
That was their bonus for screwing us. That would be less than honest. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Main Entry: greed Pronunciation: 'grEd Function: noun Etymology: back-formation from greedy : excessive or reprehensible acquisitiveness : AVARICE from Merriam-Webster's dictionary. Nothing about honesty in there at all. | ||
| Aldaytona |
I'll side with the greed issue, take the popular tourist attraction here in central Florida as an example, a couple of years ago the bulk of workers were trying to get a small hourly raise and didn't get it. The CEO gets 100M a year (I forget how much actually, 100M is used for example only, I think it's actually more) and couldn't give the guys/gals sweating their *arses off a few more cents an hour. Thats GREED folks, I feel relatively sure he could live in an lavish lifestyle on 99 1/2M a year and let the workers have a couple of extra dollars a week for their families. I could be wrong, but that seems to be the case with a lot of big companies. * Special thanks to our brothers across the pond. | ||
| Rd3501 |
Speaking of making things in the good old USA. Not that it has anything with motorcycles but the best bicycle parts are made in the USA. (Both have two wheels) Chris King makes the best hubs and headsets in the world Thomson makes the best seatposts and stems in the world The machining on these is just sweet and I will never have to buy another seatpost, stem, hubs, headseat again. That is what I am talking about. Quality... I still believe that when we as Americans really want to we can put everyone else to shame. By the way Americans are the most productive people in the world. | ||
| Race_pirate |
I really didnt need to see this thread.... I try as much as possible to buy things that are MADE IN USA, it is getting harder and harder. There is less of a distiction between "Globalization" and "Foriegn dependancy" I recently watched a program regarding Bethlehem Steel which made my stomach turn. I can relate to what Court was referencing, I live on Long Island where povererty is considered earning $50K a year. I also watched the irony of the old Republic/Fairchild Aircraft Plant turn into a bunch of stores that sell household items made overseas and the old aircraft paddock turn into a parking lot for new Nissans & Mitsubishis.... They used to make American warplanes to protect our freedom. Its sometime frustrating,takes a little more time and sometimes costs a little more but take the time and try and buy items "MADE in USA" Sometimes its impossible.... (Clutch lever for Buell) | ||
| Bomber |
I find it hard to imagine someone getting screwed (more than once, anyways) without standing still for it -- at some point, it becomes the responsibility of the screwee, I beleive Grounder hit upon an interesting fact -- the cost of an employee at a joint I recently left (within 3 months) was figured thusly pay = x overhead & benefits = 45%X bennies included health insurance, pension (rare these days), 401K, health club subsidies, vacation, paid days off (holidays here in the US), ZEmployee Assistance Programs, the list goes on -- it represented 70% of the Overhead and bennies overhead is the guys that cut the grass, plow the parking lots (thanks, grounder), change the light bulbs, the cost of electricy to light the bulbs, building maint . . . . . btw, this company was, for good or ill, non-union I wonder what those figures look like ex-US? doing business isn't cheap -- we here is the US are making it a bit more expensive than it might be -- again, ya pays yer money and ya takes yer chances I remember when Buell was All American -- I also know I couldn't have afforded one to save my soul -- me, I ain't voting for an all-US Buell any time soon one of hte reasons US worker are more productive than most others (all others, mebbe) is that we work a whole lot more than workers in other industrialized nations (knowledge workers in Germany work an average of about 12-15 days a month after holidays and vacation are figured in -- ever try to reach the French office in August?) there's no doubt that US workers can, and do, perform world class work -- it's just a matter of where you wish that work to be focused -- me,I'll take a Chinese bolt or two so I can afford the bike -- I can't imagine what a new XB series scoot would cost if it were 100% US made, but I'll betcha it's a fair amount more than it is now (and many already scour the country looking to save $200 on the price) | ||
| Ginzero |
One of the reasons why I bought the Buell is for its American heritage. I too believe in keeping domestic manufacturing jobs by being consumer conscious. Being an immigrant it always amazes me how short sighted my fellow Americans can be when it comes to consuming.. and if our fellow countrymen only value our freedom to consume (cheaply) we should examine what it means to be free. We reep what we sew.. | ||
| Mountainrider |
Bush stated that it was the consumers fault that the goods were being made in China. He said that we should buy american. I do not think he does any shopping. You do not have a choice anymore. When 100 percent of a product line is made in China what choice do you have? | ||
| Buelldyno_guy |
Early in this thread it was about Buell and their suppliers, now it's about all things global. I also have enough grief with the "Global Economy," but am proud of my "American Motorcycle." The few times I have been around this Buell guy in person I have always been impressed with his insight, his drive, and his products. … Terry | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
I just walked out and looked at our Buell accessory display wall (yeah, we have one!) and EVERY single accessory package out there said "Made In United States" on it. The helmets were "Made In Korea" and the T-shirts (from Vanson) are from El Salvador and Nicaragua (but printed here). Then I go look at ANY Harley accessory display wall and 95%+ are foreign manufacture (fun to point this out to the "Chest Pounding, Patriotic, All-'Murican 'Buells-Ain't-Harleys' riders"  ). Looks like the "Made in USA" Harley parts are roughly twice the price of the foreign-made ones. Just FYI... HellBuelly J Central Texas H-D/Buell, Austin, texas | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
This is a tough topic, everyone hates the top management of the major corporations. Do you think the guys that are paid hourly will work 100hrs a week, never have a family life, have to work 7 days a week, and travel on very short notice, plus be responsible to the stock holders. The reason you see so many large bonuses being given to the top management is the responsibility level they are at. They receive these bonuses to make the tough decisions and make the company a profit. It is more of an incentive for them to succeed, if the hourly guy does not succeed he/she is replaceable, sad but true fact. If the top management is not succesfull, the company fails and everyone is out of a job. The reason so many american shops are closing up and moving overseas are the higher costs to conduct business in the US then it was 10 to 20 years ago. Look at how much the price of raw materials has increased in the last 5 years. The price of fuel, steel, lumber, plastic, employee's wages, taxes, health care costs, pretty much everything has increased 25% or more but have we accepted this increase and paid the extra cost, no. So what do most people do buy foreign generic goods at a much lower cost. It seems like a lot of Americans are not ready to pay for a premium for "American Made". I worked for a steel company that had a location in China, the factory workers where paid $200 to $300 a month, by the way this is an upper middle class wage in China. These are not little kids working. Look at India, they may work for less but it has taken a lot of people out of poverty in that country. Another thing, I am not going to bash unions, but I do believe they negotiated themselves out of a job. I worked for a union shop (John Deere) for 3 years, I worked with a lot of people there that where making $80,000 a year in a warehouse driving a forklift. Most of these guys had 20 to 25 years in with the company, and did not do much work. They let the college students do all the work. This is just what I experienced, I am not saying this happens everywhere, but I do understand why John Deere closed up shop. They where paying these people a great wage, a pension, 401K, 100% medical, and profit sharing. All of these negotiated benefits lost them their jobs. When you add up the costs for the company to keep these employees, you have to add more then just the wage they where making and the fact that we Americans where not willing to pay for an increase in the price of their products that is why these jobs where lost, to keep costs down and make a profit because in the end the business is about making a profit. If you really want to blame someone for the reason jobs have moved overseas, blame the stock holders because if you have any stocks don't you want to see your profit grow and a lot of companies have had to make major cuts to make a profit. And it will never be an option to lower the salary and bonuses of the top management because these are the decision makers in the business world, not the people that do the work. People will have to come to terms with the fact that we are not an industrial country any more, soon we will not be the top agricultural country either because the cost of Farming has increased 400% in the past 30 years but the price for a bushel of grain has stayed around the same as it was 30 years ago. | ||
| Vonsliek |
rushing thru this thread .. i love america .. i ain't american btw .. but anyway, i DO! if ppl want all american, support yr local builder & spec out an all american vtwin streetfighter of yr own .. damn .. so many great & inventive makers .. so many rich wankers who collect *exotic* bikes .. but thats irrelevant. s&s are all american .. patrick is a brit in america .. aren't merch now america (were canadian) .. who else .. there's a whole bunch of american manufactured bike parts .. so many great welders in usa .. have a frame made for yr engine type .. get p/m forged sport wheels .. p/m brakes & •••• .. get an s&s cloned xl-based engine .. baker trans .. all yr braided hoses .. rubber (well, are there american tires .. hoosier - for bikes??!!) .. plenty of seat makers .. tube-benders .. milling machines .. cnc .. carb/efi peeps .. for a scant say $20k u cld have a genuine, one of a kind, american designed & made bike called the *your bike* xxxx .. badmofo .. put yer $$ where yr keybord is if it that big a patriotic issue .. less talky more do! pauly. |
