| Author | Message | ||
     Dj_rider |
been a while since ive posted here...just wanna keep you up to date on my buell xb12r...its been in the shop for almost a month and a half and ontop of the stator coil being bad (on a 2004 HAHAHA), they cant seem to get it to run right. they think the rear cylinder has some internal problems (i have 9800 miles on my buell). for all the people wondering if they should buy a buell, i have only one thing to say "if you dont mind your bike being in the shop more than on the road, and if you dont mind putting alot of $ back into the bike to keep it running, buy yourself a cool looking buell, but if you want something reliable and fairly inexpensive to maintain, buy a jap bike" i dont hate this group, i just really am let down on my overall expierence with my buell. | ||
| Glitch |
buy a jap bike Please do. | ||
| Buellerx |
Sorry DJ rider. I know how frustrating it is when your bike isn't running. Mine was down about 6 weeks this summer with various problems. I think I made 5 total trips to the dealer and was stranded 3 or 4 times. It was finally straightened out and has been running fine for a couple of months now. I love this bike when it runs but I had considered dumping when I was having all the problems. Ultimately you have to decide if the fun is worth the aggravation. For me I decided to stick with the Buell mostly because of this board and people like Court and Daves that helped me resolve my issues. Hope it all works out for you. | ||
| Buell666 |
just remember, every manufacturer is going to have a bike roll off the assembley line everyonce in a while that will have problems. there have been many post on bwb that state some pretty good facts as to why buells are more reliable than jap bikes. they could be opinions, they could be facts. after 13000 miles on my bike, the only problem i have had is when i wrecked it. i dont care what you ride. if you want to go out and buy a jap bike like everyone else in the world, go for it. do what makes you happy. in my opinion, a buell is the only street bike i will ever own. i4's just dont do anything for me, or alot of other people. someone stated on another post "the japs build race bikes, buell builds bikes for the road." did you consider ever trying a different dealer? if you arent having much success with a particular dealer, maybe its not the bike, but the technician. this board isnt a place for people to bitch about their bike being in the shop. either be an enthusiast, or just dont post. | ||
| Isham |
The engine on this bike seems simple enough for me to do my own repairs. Screw taking it to a shop. Thank god it's not a Jap bike... Did you check your oil levels? Been abusing the bike? What do you think caused these problems? | ||
| Xbjelly9s |
"your overall experience", i don't think that means no one should ever buy a Buell. | ||
| S1eric |
DJ, Are you saying it took A month & 1/2 to repair A stator problem. That does seem a bit excessive. What makes them think that the rear cylinder has "internal problems" Don`t jump ship just yet Give them A chance to make it right. Have you called Buell customer service ? About the Jap bike thing. I like motorcycles PERIOD ! All motorcycles. Don`t forget if you say you want A Jap bike on a Buell web site, It`s hard to get an open minded view point. Just sold an R1 earlier this year. Great Bike. And would consider buying another one. But just can bring myself to sell the S1. I think it will be in the garage for quite some time. Good luck with your buell. S1eric | ||
| Krassh |
Buy a different bike. 22,000+ on my XB9S and has never spent more than a day in the shop for a wire chaffing problem. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
DJ, I am not sure if a jap bike or any bike is for you if you don't like to wrench it a little, change this and that, make it faster, change the look to make it your own. Honestly if the Buell isn't your cup of tea, cool. Go to a different brand. My two Buell's, total of 22,000 miles this year, just on those, not to mention the 9000 on my springer, Florida rules, have been trouble free except for one broken belt that was so my fault. Yep I broke being stupid, I think the tech and the rider's attention to their bike as well as the passion for the bike they are riding make the difference. Either way, all motorcycles basically are like women, I am old so I will give you this advice, they all have something good about them, nice headlights (bolt on or original equipment), great rear end, handle well, whatever their redeeming quality is, you want to ride EVERY ONE YOU SEE, regardless of what you will admit to in public or be seen on, eventually they will break down, and of course cost you too much money, but most importantly if you know how to turn them on, you don't even have to know their proper name to ride them!! I hope your "experience" gets better. LW | ||
| Saintly |
"this board isnt a place for people to bitch about their bike being in the shop. either be an enthusiast, or just dont post." HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! That's Classic! Just Freakin Classic! I LOVE IT! HAHAHAHAHAHAHA! | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Saintly - you feelin' the bad vibes around here too. Holiday season must be making people touchy. | ||
| Bindy |
Hey DJ sorry to hear of your dramas, nothing worse than having your bike off the road. Can understand your mightly pi--ed off, but that does not mean all Buells are bad. Was a Jap Bike Rider for years and they are not exactly reliable all the time either. We have two Buells and can honestly say they are so easy to maintain and work on.(Better clarify, Opto makes it look easy, I just pass the tools that he got me for my birthday Hee! Hee!) Again sorry to hear of your woes, hope your back on the road soon with a huge smile  | ||
| Blake |
I've put over 60,000 miles on Buell motorcycles, tube framers to boot. All totaled, they were in the shop for a grand total of one hour. Damn kickstand safety switch. That includes over a thousand miles of racing on the track on my current '97 Cyclone. BEWARE! Don't buy a Buell! That's what I told the guy stranded by his new Kawasaki this Summer as I helped him push it up and over the overpass in Dallas. | ||
| Truk |
DJ - Really sorry to hear about all your problems. I have followed your original thread and now see things are no better for you. I can't imagine how frustrated you must be. I hope your dealer or Buell itself will make things right for you and real soon. I purchased my 03 XB9R used in Feb with 1,800 miles. Now have almost 12,000 problem free miles. Have you tried talking with Buell directly and sharing your experience requesting a quick resolution (either fixed bike or another one)? | ||
| Moboy516 |
I had some issues with my xb. Check my profile. Some self inflicted and some were bad luck. I ride the •••• out of my bike. My bike was down for a while but not a single problem in 11,000 miles except some major tire shredding. I had enough confidence to ride from mid-Missouri to North Carolina and back this summer, and that's saying a lot. 26,000 miles so far on a 03 xb9r and sometimes I still scream with joy inside my helmet when I blast out of a corner. | ||
| Skully |
Blake - Is there any way to get number of problems per 100 bikes from Buell (kinda like what Consumer Reports does)? Keith | ||
| Xb9ser |
I've got a 03 xb9s bought new in aug 03 10000 miles no issueus but a speedor senser still riding. | ||
| Blake |
Keith, I don't know of any way to obtain proprietary information like that from any vehicle manufacturer. | ||
| Hippo888 |
As a proxy for number of defects per bike, go look at the 3rd party insurance/warranty firms. These companies sell the extended warranties. They base their prices on actuarial data they've collected. You can't use manufacturers' extended warranties because they all put different profit margins on them (you can't compare a warranty offered by Honda to a warranty offered by Harley because the companies may make differing profit margins, which obscures the actual cost of the warranty). If you use a 3rd party insurance company, the profit margins are probably more consistent between brands of bikes. For example, if a 3rd party insurance company says that a 4 year extended warranty on a Suzuki costs $400 and a 4 year extended warranty on a Honda costs $500, then they've had experience that the Honda's have more problems (requiring more warranty payouts) and thus require a higher insurance/warranty premium. (Message edited by hippo888 on November 30, 2005) (Message edited by hippo888 on November 30, 2005) | ||
| Redstar100 |
"For example, if a 3rd party insurance company says that a 4 year extended warranty on a Suzuki costs $400 and a 4 year extended warranty on a Honda costs $500, then they've had experience that the Honda's have more problems (requiring more warranty payouts) and thus require a higher insurance/warranty premium." I don't think thats very good way to tell. The price structure would be created from the cost of parts, cost of bike, and perhaps frequency of issues. Between A $7,000 suzuki and a $7000 honda the suzuki may have $200 set of pistons and the honda may have a $800 set of pistons. Suzuki may be notorious for breaking down and the extended warranty could be $400. The honda may have a history of never breaking down but the warranty could still be $500 to cover the excessive cost in parts. | ||
| Court |
>>>just remember, every manufacturer is going to have a bike roll off the assembley line everyonce in a while that will have problems. That MAY be an accurate statement, I'm unable to refute it. The KEY, and what Buell excels at, is keeping that bike that made it off the line from making it out the door. Buell has a program that excels in catching variations from acceptable tolerances. Remind me some time to tell you about "working to the 9's". I'm doing a porject right now for Banc of America. They used to used Six Sigma ( a term owned by Motorola), but Six Sigma (encompassing a mere 6 SD) is but 99.97% reliable. BOA called us because it costs them $9,000,000 per second when they are down. They wanted "the 9's", or 99.9999% reliablity. I can go into all the math, but for those who want to play along, figure out how many seconds a years difference there is in the two and you'll see why my $44,000,000 price to do the electical system is a drop in the bucket. I've got some good power point presentations and I also have some of my material I'm done over the last year on systems and how they relate. If say, a motorcycle has 3 parts, each is 95% reliable and it will run with either A (headlight) and C (motor) or B (wheels) and C (motor)functioning, but not with A (headlight)and B (wheels), what is the overall reliability of the bike? This is the stuff of mathematics. Buell does not just lower their head, work real hard and hope for the best. There must be a plan to measure against. With no map, there is no way to strategically deploy limited resources. | ||
| Court |
By the way....I consider the board a GREAT place to bitch about your bike. The most elusive element in the customer service chain is data input. Folks, literally, keep it bottled up in side and fail to communicate the right info to the right place. Go back and read some of my writing on customer service. Understand that "bitching" has to include "actionable facts", even if it's just a "pink smoke pours from the horn button at 3,200 RPM". I need to know what needs to be fixed. A statement that "all Buells suck" or Bob Smith (with apoligies to any real Bob Smith) sucks, are but netertainment, bar room talk. Manufacturers track warranty $$$ per unit sold. I presume the warranty and good will (all the stuff that is done, not requried) are segregated. I do not know Buell numbers. I know folks who do. They are VERY HAPPY people. | ||
| Chainsaw |
Is there any way to get number of problems per 100 bikes from Buell (kinda like what Consumer Reports does)? I believe CR gets it's data from JD Powers. IIRC the JD Powers data on MC's can not be released publicly because of some legal-ese agreement between MC manufacturers. (I think I heard this from Court). I can tell you the car industry has an average of 118 problems per 100 cars, according to JD Powers. One Lexus model has 240+ problems per 100 cars. | ||
| Road_thing |
Uh, 85.7375%? rt Sorry to hear about Vicki's dad. Please pass on my condolences... | ||
| Blake |
Interesting. I'm wary of the consumer reports and J.D. Powers type info as it, like Court already alluded to, addresses neither context nore severity of the "problem." I had a "problem" with a new Ford Exploder; it was missing the cargo tie-downs in the rear compartment. That's a might bit less severe than a cracked frame or an electrical system that burtst into flames. That said, based on what I've heard reported recently on this board, I'd recommend that XB12 owners especially may be well-served to have their engine's drive sprocket nut removed, cleaned, loctited and retorqued to the new significantly higher torque specification. The pinnion shaft sprocket nut's torque specification was recently revised upwards for all Buell XB motorcycles and 2004 and later Sportsters from 190-210 FT*LBs to 240-260 FT*LBs. That's a 25% Increase in torque. Thanks to Mike (Rageonthedl) for advising us of that important change.  New Pinion Shaft Sprocket Nut Torque Spec | ||
| Rageonthedl |
yep yep, I really should torque mine to the new spec. I tend to ride the hell out of my bike, im surprised it has not come loose yet. | ||
| Dago |
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| Blake |
Court, "If say, a motorcycle has 3 parts, each is 95% reliable and it will run with either A (headlight) and C (motor) or B (wheels) and C (motor)functioning, but not with A (headlight)and B (wheels), what is the overall reliability of the bike? " This is fun stuff. To clarify, there are four parts considering the two "wheels." And what you are presenting with your "95% reliability" figure is actually a probability of non-failure, which is very different from what us engineering geeks would formally describe as "reliability". The "reliability" of a component/system/assembly in formal engineering geek-speak is a statistical measure/estimate characterized quantitatively using what we call the mean time between failure (MTBF), usually stated in units of hours. The MTBF for an individual part is determined through analysis of comprehensive historic records of actual failures or through analytical estimation using published engineering standards for known components with consideration for their specific work-load and duty-cycle. So your 95% figure is a probability of non-failure which would equate to a 5% probability of failure. Gosh, that is horrible! Now to your question: If the headlight is neglected due to being ruled non-essential for operation, and if during the operational life of the motorcycle the probabilities of non-failure for each of two wheels and the engine is 95%, then the overall probability of non-failure for the engine and wheels would be as RT so astutely states, 0.953=0.8574 or 85.74%. If however the probabilities of non-failure for the two wheels combined is 95%, then the probability of non-failure for the engine and two wheels would be 0.952=0.9025 or 90.25%. Fun stuff! "BOA called us because it costs them $9,000,000 per second when they are down. They wanted "the 9's", or 99.9999% reliablity." More clarification, What your six sigma and nines requirement is relating to is "availability." Availablility is just what is sounds like, the percentage of time during the operational design life of a system in which it is able to adequately perform its required function. Besides the MTBF, availability analysis must also account for the duration of down-time caused by any failure; this is characterized via the mean time to repair (MTTR), also usually in hours just like the MTBF. Mathematically the overall availability of any system is equal to the ratio of operational time to the sum of operational time plus down-time, in mathematical terms... Depending on the type of system, one would also include the down-time required for routine maintenance. For a recreational vehicle however, that is not so much of a concern. But it would make for good comparison between certain low versus high-maintenance vehicles. Anyway, what does all that geek-speak mean in real terms? It may mean that just as important if not more important than the "reliability" might be the "availability" of a motorcycle. The reliability may be overall not so impressive, but if for the most predominant failures, repair requires only takes two minutes on the side of the road, well then that may be infinitely better than a motorcycle with quadruple the reliability, but whose predominant failures require a week in the shop. Fun stuff. Had to put together an earth station once with 99.9999% availability, acts of God notwithstanding. Redundant subsystems are the only way to get there. Sometimes it's cheaper to simply sell them two complete earth stations, but in places like Japan, Taiwan, Singapore and Hong Kong, the cost of real estate issue comes into play. (Message edited by Blake on December 01, 2005) | ||
| Hippo888 |
""For example, if a 3rd party insurance company says that a 4 year extended warranty on a Suzuki costs $400 and a 4 year extended warranty on a Honda costs $500, then they've had experience that the Honda's have more problems (requiring more warranty payouts) and thus require a higher insurance/warranty premium." I don't think thats very good way to tell. The price structure would be created from the cost of parts, cost of bike, and perhaps frequency of issues. Between A $7,000 suzuki and a $7000 honda the suzuki may have $200 set of pistons and the honda may have a $800 set of pistons. Suzuki may be notorious for breaking down and the extended warranty could be $400. The honda may have a history of never breaking down but the warranty could still be $500 to cover the excessive cost in parts." My metric is just a proxy for data we aren't privy to. However, because it's a competitive market, you'll find that parts prices are fairly equivalent between Japanese bikes (for example, a NipponDenso regulator rectifier on a Suzuki is just about identical in everything as a NipponDenso regulator recitifier on an equivalent Honda). I have noticed that Harley/Buell parts are considerably cheaper than the Japanese though. In the end though, my proxy gives you a fairly accurate metric for measuring warranty costs/reliability for a certain bike over a certain period of time. More problematic bikes will have higher warranty premiums than less problematic bikes. What I am looking for is basically what you said, "the cost of parts, cost of bike, and perhaps frequency of issues." If bike A ends up needing $1000 of repairs and bike B ends up needing $3000 of repairs, one can reasonably say that bike B has more issues with quality regardless of whatever particular part broke. | ||
| M1combat |
Yeah... 18,470 miles and 1.5 hours in the shop in two years. |
