| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
Hmmm.... maybe I am making connections that don't exist here, but the annony posting above that suggested it makes perfect marketing sense to put the 9R out first since there are tons of "X1's and Cyclones sitting on dealer floors" may suggest something... Mainly, that there is a replacement for the M2 soon to be forthcoming... Which is no great revelation, it makes perfect sense. Here's my guess. XB9R stays the same until new X1/S1 (XB9S) and new Cyclone (XB9M?) are out. Then, we see significant engine changes on the 9R and perhaps even more of a fairing and aggressive seating position. The 9S gets the same hotter engine, but with the aggressive naked look. The 9M keeps the existing firbolt setup, or the hotter engine returned for more torque, and is cheaper (I.E no upside down fork) and has more friendly ergos. That leaves the S3 replacement, which would probably be a version of the 9M, but with different seating setups.... maybe they will stretch the rear swingarm out a little to make everything fit better and be a little more comfy, maybe they can pull it off with the existing wheelbase. I really look forward to seeing what some or our local Guru's here can pull of with that XB9 engine. If the 1200's can be hopped up to 100+ horses reliably with that long stroke, I don't see why the XB9 motor can't do at least as well, if not better. All the same advantages the derivitive engine gives Buell in terms of reuse of existing tooling and knowledge should work just as well for our aftermarket friends. Seems to me it would not be unreasonable to see more or less bolt on head work, ecm mods, intake and exhaust changes for $2000 or so that would deliver a reliable 105HP or so at the crank, which would make the XB's just about untouchable anywhere but race tracks and drag strips. Any annony's (or local Guru's) think I am nuts here? I think Aaron had that blast hitting something like 70hp in a race setup, surely he could get 55-65hp in a streetable configuration, which would be more then enough. I read a quote from early on (in a Cycle World publication) where one of the Buell engineers was quoted as saying that the airbox can deliver enough air for 100 horses already with no restriction. I suspect that number was a target, not just an accidental achievement. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Damnit, the 9S really has me excited. Yes, there are only a few little differences between it and the 9R; but, they make all the difference in the world. Lower pegs and higher bars make it a more streetable bike. The little fairing makes it look mean! I still want a race repli-bike, which the 9R isn't. IMHO, the 9R compromises too much where the 9S is what a streetfighter is all about! Kudos to Buell! I still think it should be priced at $7999 and a 1200 version at $9,999, but I'm excited about this version where I'm not interested in the Firebolt. Weird. Again, if they were to come out with a 110 rwhp fully faired version, they'd have my money. Vik | ||
| Grizzlyb |
Maybe the best and most easy way to know the right weight of a XB9R is to put it on a scale   The research guys from magazine MOTORRAD did this in there latest test. Dry 394 lbs, Wet 454 lbs. It is a extensive test between four 2cyl bikes. Buell XB9R, BMW R1100S,Ducati 900SS and Moto Guzzi V11 Scura. The test was pretty good. They where not enthousiastic about the Dunlops on the XB9R, while cornering the bike stood up very strong when using the brakes. Problem was over when they used the BT020. Overall feeling of the testers... Tina Turner goes Britney Spears, Erik Buell has put the motorworld upside down with this creation. Pretty positive exept for the HP. They measured it 88 RWHP, BMW 99 RWHP, Ducati 83 RWHP and Guzzi 89 RWHP. I'll post a picture Grizzly(temp.OBCO, lately FFF) | ||
| Jrh |
Eeeeek If they come out with a fully faired 110rwhp version i'd be glad to send the fairing to you from mine for free,if i could stop myself from smashing it to bits with a hammer 1st.I guess i drink to much Pepsi+i really hate fairings. | ||
| Grizzlyb |
Sorry for the quality, I had to shrink it to much  Grizzly (temp.OBCO, lately FFF) | ||
| Gravedigger |
I guess what I am wondering is if you truley want a hooligan bike. why wouldn't you just buy the bolt (for the same price) since they are essentially the same. rip the fairings off and sell them on ebay or some other place and take the money to customize the bike the way you see fit. (ever seen the price for new plastic?) This makes more sense than buying one for the same price thats setup the way the company see's fit and having to add to it? I really think they just underachieved a bit on this bike. Don't get me wrong I really really like the firebolt. But don't really understand what difference you get between the two. it appears to me that you loose a bit for the same price. Where are the different cams, heads etc...? I am not trying to insult this new bike but I just don't get it! | ||
| Davegess |
Grizz, what weights do they show for the other bikes? Any idea what weight some of the Japanese sport bikes , lke an R1 have come in at in that same mag. | ||
| Archer |
Just got off the phone with Brian Nallin. He just shipped his first two big bore kits for the XB line overseas. He said that they are getting anywhere from 99-104 horses at the real wheel with just a power commander, K&N and a gutted stock muffler. Another interesting thing that we talked about was that he is putting in conventional valves and his own springs in the heads. Said that above 7500 RPM the springs went to shit. I was expecting the kit to be arond 1500-$2000. he's selling them for about 900 something. Also.....did anyone notice that they have dropped the price on the website for the 1250 kit to $500. Sounds like that just came into some people's price range. Can't wait to set mine up!! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Archer, thats what I was looking to hear. Is that $900 for both heads, or just one? If so, $11000 for a bike with the handling of the XB's and 100 HP at the rear wheel is a very reasonable price for an exotic, and right in line with the Cagiva Raptor, which is a similar reasonably priced exotic, but does not handle as well, is not as innovative, but has a skootch more power. | ||
| Spiderman |
Where the heck are they getting the K&N from i have only seen the powercomander and various dress up goodies. | ||
| Josh |
But if it's the M2's replacement it's about $2000 too high. I wonder how much fuss it will kick up when they release the XB12R next year for $10,599k and drop the XB9s to $8,599. Josh | ||
| Reepicheep |
It'll cause plenty of fuss around MY house, especially when the wife spots the XB9s in the garage!  | ||
| Steve_A |
Interesting to note the much better fuel consumption in the Motorrad test than the other bikes. At 100 km/h, the Firebolt is burning 3.6 liters/100 km, compared to 5.0 to 5.1 for the other three. At 130 km/h, the 'Bolt is burning 5.0 liters/100 km, compared to 6.1 to 6.2 for the others. Its theoretical range is greater than all but the Moto Guzzi. That corresponds to real world riding I've done on a 9R -- in a mix of around town and 75-80 mph freeway riding, the mileage was around 50 mpg. I would fairly consistently get 130-plus-miles before the warning light would come on and the special tripmeter would start counting, and there were times I went almost 30 miles after the light came on. I never put in much more than 3 gallons while filling it, so there was range left. Also, the weight difference between an X1 and a 9R is around 40 pounds wet. I also understand that the 9R and 9S may see a more substantial change in peak power with a race pipe -- perhaps as much as 10 horsepower -- than did the S1W and X1, which largely just benefitted by the elimination of the 3000 rpm hole in the power curve, and an overall big jump in mid-range torque with almost no gain at peak power. The pipe on the 984s was designed to deliver a smooth power curve in noise legal trim, whereas the earlier engines were tuned for noise-legal peak power at the expense of midrange. In any case, it may be possible to have both a smooth band and higher peak power on the 'Bolt with a louder pipe, and I'm very much looking forward to seeing what a race kit will do. | ||
| Blake |
Archer, ...did anyone notice that (Nallin Racing) have dropped the price on the website for the 1250 kit to $500. Still shows as $984.50 for me. | ||
| Blake |
I wonder how many of those asking for 110 RWHP or 120 RWHP or more from a Buell have ever actually ridden such a bike. In first gear, the term "mouse trap" comes to mind. Second gear isn't much different. Third gear is controlable at WOT but you better have your chin on the headlamp. There is a HUGE difference between the streetability of a low revving V-Twin with 100 RWHP and a high revving engine (10K+) with 100 RWHP. High torque low revving engines are brutal unforgiving beasts where higher revving engines offer a relatively sedate "dead range" at the lower rpms. | ||
| Grizzlyb |
Dave, Sorry, but I made a bad mistake in the translation from German to English (both not my language)  The test was wet only, that is typical for German tests. The second weightnr. was “zuladung” which means load capacity!! They never do dry weight or @crank HP. Always real live numbers, Wet weight and RWHP. So this is what it should have been. The weight of the Buell: wet 454 lbs (on the scale) load capacity 394 lbs (from the book) The weight of the BMW: wet 544 lbs.(with ABS etc) load capacity 447 lbs The weight of the Moto Guzzi: wet 542 lbs load capacity 471 lbs The weight of the Ducati: wet 491 lbs load capacity 434 lbs Again sorry for the mis-info, If you can read German I can scan the complete story for you and email it, or I could try and translate the hole 10 pages.(it'l take some time, but so what, I have my right leg in plaster and not much to do anyway Ciao Grizzly | ||
| Spiderman |
Good point Blake, Rode a GSXR1000 not too long ago and it had a lot of low end, even i was surprised, but no mid and alot of High commin out of third gear doin 100 is pretty awsome with no effort, but like you said without prior experience on that bike and she isn't very well manered. | ||
| Spiderman |
Blake by the way kick start on a Buell. With 10 to 1 compression you must be crazy. (been meaning to say that)  | ||
| Eeeeek |
Blake: I'm not sure how to respond to that. I want 110+ rwhp. I say that becasue bikes that I really enjoy wringing out, the TLR, RC-51, Mille, etc., are all about there. Yes, they rev to 10,500; however, I've found that those bikes, especially the Mille, provide an powerfull low end grunt and then an awesome top end. Never did I say I wanted 110+ rwhp from a low reving bike. Rev to 22,000 rpm's for all I care as long as it's smooth power delivery. I know the power I want is possible because I've found ir before. Give me a Rotax twin or maybe even the new KTM twin. Vik | ||
| Aaron |
Blake, your point is well taken, and something I've pondered a lot. With that 100" S3 I had, you simply could not whack the throttle hard in first or second, you'd land on your back. You could hit it hard in third though and it would just loft the front wheel, not violent. I thought it was entertaining as hell. But not a bike for the novice rider, that's for sure. I can't even imagine that kind of torque in a small stubby XB chassis with ultralight wheels. Death trap. It'd be more bike than I could handle. You'd be lighting the rear tire and/or looping it at the exit of every turn. BUT ... my M2, by comparison, makes similar power to that 100" motor with considerably less torque. I think it's powerband would work well in an XB type chassis. Yeah, it'd still be a bike for experienced riders, but so what? So is a GSXR1000, or a 'Busa, or an FZ1 for that matter. | ||
| Rick_A |
I read about some early Buell testing with an S1...they built an S1 with an 87" motor making over 120hp and 90ft-lbs of torque. Seems it was a bit of a handful and went no faster than a basically stock S1 around a racetrack. | ||
| José_Quiñones |
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| Tricklidz |
More H.P....More H.P......More H..... Hell, I think I'd be happy with the way the XB is now, but I haven't ridden one yet!! I have a 97 S3 with 82 hp.80 ft lb @ 4k...and it's plenty fast enough (when ridden right)!! I ride with (and have ridden) Rc51, Mille, etc...and...well...they just don't do it for me!! I'll take the Buell and my Duc anyday. Give me the XB...the S maybe...and let me ride the snot outta it. I'll just grin and say "suprise" to the Hondas and Aprillas of the world.. :-) Y.M.M.V. Steve | ||
| Two_Buells |
Jose, the XB engines have a 45mm throttle body  | ||
| Rd350 |
Blake, For years everyone has been asking for more power, more power. But instead we get less power. I could total understand if the new bike weighed 420 wet weight. But in reality it is 454 pds wet. This new bike is a tank compared to what is out on the market. If you are going to give us less power give us a really light bike. Don't give us fake numbers showing us 385 pds. We are not dumb. That is like saying guess how much money I made last year before taxes!! Looks good on paper but in reality... I think that Buells in general need more power from the factory and not from us dumping more than $2000.00 in modes. Years ago when you wanted power from the Big Four you would throw on a pipe cut up the air box and look out 15 to 20 hp. But todays bikes are so good at making power if you try putting on a pipe you are lucky to get 3 to 4 hp. I think that Buell needs to stop using dinasour tactics and pull some HP out of the motor. (They are already asking premium for the bike then give us premium HP.) Buell could learn a leason from the Big Four and it is free. First loose the iron cylinders and put in Nikel Silicon cylinders. That would give the bike 10% more power across the board. And if all the big fours are using it you know it works. Second get ride of the 5 speed and put in 6 or maybe even 7 speed trans.. This would help make up for the lack of power that the bike has. Last, let this engine rev...With after market springs you can already get 7500rpm without float. So with all the talk about the new NASCAR springs they should at least be able to get 8500 rpm out of them. Lets have some revs. Change these simple things and keep the price were it is. If not drop the price on the XB9S to $7999.00 and the XB9R to $8500.00 and Buell will not be able to sell enough of them. But for now they want to much money for an underpowered bike... And for years everyone has been asking for more power. Can everyone be wrong in tell BUell that there bikes need more power. Not less. Less is not more in this case. We want, we need more power... | ||
| Blake |
Steve A., Thanks for that great info. Really interesting. Aaron, Have you ridden your M2 at near sea level on a cool day?  Eeeeek, Yeah, with a higher revving engine, the big RWHP is not so intimidating. All, I'm all aobut more power for the XB9's too, just not sure some of us understand what it's like to ride a 120RWHP Buell. I'd love one, but it certainly would be a hazard if sold to the general public. | ||
| Archer |
When you hit that much horsepower and torque on a low reving motor you almost have to change the gearing. It becomes unusable power if you don't. If you're drag racing it becomes damn near impossible to launch the thing well (especially with the short wheel base) and road racing you start pulling the wheel up way to much coming out of the corners. You also risk breaking the rear wheel loose coming out of slow corners. You really have to know your bike to ride a setup like that. I totally agree with Blake on that issue. ...did anyone notice that (Nallin Racing) have dropped the price on the website for the 1250 kit to $500. must issue a retraction on that one I was looking at the Blast kit. OOPS Sorry | ||
| José_Quiñones |
I forgot one, which is relevant to this discussion:  | ||
| Davegess |
RD A TANK??? It weighs no more than the lightest 600 with all fluids except gas 385 is a "real" dry weight compared to all the japanese dry weights. these weights are all fantasy weights however. I sometime think they must count plastic as wet to get to the numbers they use. The 'bolt is just about 400 poounds sans fuel. The factory could give more power but it would cost more money. The $10000 price point is very important. Wake up guys this is a bike that is smaller and lighter than a 600 and that can out pace an RC51 on a twisty road, it is made in tiny quantites so that you won't see yourself coming and going, it is as exotic as just about any bike in the world (on features it is much more exotic) and it costs only $10000???? A bargin! I like Aprilas. cool bikes. But is it worth twice what my 'bolt cost? Not for me. The new KTM twin? Where can I buy one and at what price? the $10000 ducati, sure neat bike but you see an awful lot of them. Dave | ||
| Darthane |
Guys, I've gotta say, you definitely had me engrossed the past couple days. I've had my XB9R for about 3 weeks now and I love it. I'm sorry, but the bike makes 'enough' power as is. It'll lift the wheel off the ground with no trouble at all, making its piddly 68 ft/lbs at the crank. I'd personally be scared shitless of whacking the throttle on this teensy bike with 80+. Not that I'm not going to work on increasing the power, mind you. Bryan |
