| Author | Message | ||
     Elff |
More miles in one day does not equal more strain on an engine. Drag Racing is a perfect example of this. It has also been proven that stop and go driving is more demanding than cruising. Therefore you dont have to hit high miles to have a benefit. For other people, 92,000 miles might be impressive, but with you it just shows that you've been around forever and learned nothing. Not to mention, I just dont believe you. I think you made it up. Lets see some proof? Otherwise your 92,000 miles are a worthless waste of typing. You sound like a baby. Jeees somebody call the wambulance because onebuell is throwing a temper tantrum | ||
| Ponytail |
Elff, I've got 118,000 miles on my jeep. You can't tell me squat about rock krawling until you've driven as many miles in your TJ as I have in my YJ. YJ's RULE!  See you Friday.  | ||
| Awprior |
I didn't read the whole thread, just this last page. As far as differences in cooling between the XBs and and Harley or Tube Frame Buell... Consider how far the rear cylinder protrudes into the frame of the XBs compared to any Harley (except for the VROD) or any tube frame Buell. There is the same amount of heat that needs to be expelled with a much smaller exposed cylinder surface area. The plastic that is around the engine is there for a reason. It might not there to faciltate fan flow, but airflow when the bike is moving. Ever seen the development of the VROD on Discovery and the work that went into engineering the baffles on the radiator? Same principle. I design construction equipment. We've got a ton of airflow/cooling projects to tackle with EPA tier III and IV emissions requirements, all of which lead to a higher engine temp. A bulldozer? Tough ••• machine. Lots of plastic and metal 'extras' are added to channel airflow where it is needed. Bulldozers or Buells, all of that stuff is there for a reason. We engineers aren't always right, but we design things the way we do for a reason. Prior | ||
| Elff |
Unless you drove that Bulldozer 92,000 miles we dont want to hear it Drive the Dozer 92000 miles with a freaking air scoop then talk to us  My Last jeep was a YJ. My upgrades went like this PBblaster loads of swearing more blaster more swearing bolts breaking drilling bolt extraction new part installed in 5 minutes 1.5 days until we crash at Walts. With this Buell, my jeep is a dedicated off road machine now | ||
| Leftcoastal |
"Can't we all just get along?" - R. King | ||
| Tunes |
So Sokota, 180 is the higest temp. you've recorded? Sounds reasonable and plausable. My old '76 XLCH had a oil tank thermometer and it ran 170-190, depending on the ambient temperature. With other scoops being developed, I'm gonna wait a bit and see what happens... but I'm still intrigued. | ||
| Awprior |
Suppose I should retract my post, you missed the point. Wasn't even about an airscoop. | ||
| Socalbueller |
I disagree with removing the plastic cover worsens the cooling of the engine. Maybe in some extreme situations it would aid cooling, such as sitting in traffic at 90+ degrees. Sunday I took off the cover since I wanted to see more of the engine and thought it might help cool the rear cylinder. Since everybody is judging the right side air scoop on how well it cools by the amount of time the fan is running, taking the OEM cover off also aids in cooling. My commute to work is 17 miles and is about 1/2 to 3/4 highway depending on which route I take. With the cover in place my fan always came on on the highway. I knew this because every time I slowed down I could hear it running. With the cover off (for the past 3 days) the fan does not come until I am about 2-3 miles away from work, 4 miles after I get off the highway. Plus the temps are warmer this week than last. With the cover in place I doubt the fan draws enough air over both cylinders to equal 30 mph breeze without the cover. As I stated in the beginning I am sure the cover would help if you were stuck in traffic on a hot day not going more than 10 mph for over 10 minutes. | ||
| Ronlv |
i dont think the buell engineers are stupid, they could have put one on both sides if they wanted i think it evens out the look if thats what you want i thought about just taken mine off to the hellbender has both sides off cooling to dollar ratio worth it?, i dont think so over priced for a piece of plastic, yes you can see by the cheap carbon products on ebay that it doesnt cost that much to make i think everyone tries to $soak$ us buell riders, even our supporters onebuell has some good points, i know nobody likes to hear them if i had a sparkplug that could make your bike 5% faster for 200 bucks would you want some data or would you just take my word for it and buy it? without data you are just buying it for looks if you want to run cooler this is suposed to work www.two2cool.com, i never tried it so i dont know for sure amsoil is suposed to run cooler to | ||
| Wildman4x4nut |
Hey Elff, How dare you bring Jeeps into this whole thing. I mean if you want to be taken serious you need to have something you could have driven 92,000 miles in & we all know you can't do that in a JEEP Boy and I thought this crap only happened over on the Jeep boards. SSDD that's for sure. Or I guess it should read SSDB. Just for the fun of it I think I'll waste $200 on a worthless piece of crap and buy a scoop for my bike. | ||
| Trojan |
'you can see by the cheap carbon products on ebay that it doesnt cost that much to make' You forget of course that the cheap carbon on ebay is a straight copy from somebody elses product. Even some of the photographs they use are taken straight from other companies brochures or web sites! If you have no development, testing or design costs you can make things much cheaper  By the way, have you seen the quality of that stuff? A lot of these parts are made by people that wouldn't know a Buell from a Bulls arse, so fit and finish leave a lot to be desired. Eventually those that design original products will get fed up with the blatant pirating of their designs and just do something else instead. Customers will then be left with nothing but cheap imitations and nothing new or innovative. You get what you pay for | ||
| Elff |
Awprior I completely understood what you were saying. I was using onebuell's logic to show how ridiculous it was . No need for you to retract your post. | ||
| Ronlv |
"You forget of course that the cheap carbon on ebay is a straight copy from somebody elses product." i see that alot of your products are straight copies of Buell, RRC, American Sportbike there are probably several other company products that you copied and did not originally design, but i am not going to cross refrence them all, you know which ones they are "If you have no development, testing or design costs you can make things much cheaper" if this is true your stuff should be much cheaper then and i hope you dont expect us to believe you designed everything and everyone copied you, we are not that stupid | ||
| Onebuell |
" More miles in one day does not equal more strain on an engine. " Oh right ! all the scoop runners here are drag racers. Some dragster bikes don't even have cylinder fins. I don't need to prove my mileage. I know it for myself. You obviously have not been around many bikes, Harleys or otherwise or have not talked to too many people in the bike scene. There are plenty of 100,000 plus Harley Evolutions motors, and soon to be Twin Cams. And I also have seen on a documentary a 100,000 mile Shovelhead superglide. It was a woman's bike in California. The right side scoop wouldn't even be used on a drag bike anyhow. I will be responding to YOUR critiques of my comments unlike you and your air scoop buddy's inability to TAKE critique... sincerely, onebuell | ||
| Onebuell |
"My commute to work is 17 miles and is about 1/2 to 3/4 highway depending on which route I take." "onebuell has some good points, i know nobody likes to hear them" ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Thank you. Last night I took the XB9 out and rode approximately 30 miles before any fan kicked on. Temperature outside was approximately mid-to-upper 80's degrees fahrenheit. No r.air scoop. I still think it's (the r. side scoop) snake oil with minimal effect. A lot of good a scoop does sitting in bumper to bumper traffic and stop and go inner city asphalt carving with heat radiating from the asphalt and you are sitting with a diesel powered bus on each side of you and you can barely breath from internal combustion reciprocating engine fumes surrounding you since the air is as thick as mollasses and 1 mph hour breeze (crosswind from the left being blocked by the buses and left side scoop and right side scoop is doing absolutely NADA except absorbing hot air being leached across the bike by the 1 mph crosswind... the end ... Why are my comments and logic "rediculous" and whatever else you all have called them. Oh just because I don't have an aerospace degree like all of you do? Well... all you aerospace degree guys out there you lost 2 space shuttles, several rockets, several astronauts, and you lost Mars crawlers. (Fix that first then come tell me about the internal combustion reciprocating engine.) And you made US pay for it with taxes somewhere down the line. Oh yea.... and ride 92,000 miles on a Buell with right side air scoop and see if that motor is any better shape then one without a right side air scoop. Since you are so worried about heat on a 30 mile ride to some bike nite deal and you shut it off and then make parallels to drag racing bikes that have nothing to do with the end means of running a air scoop (to reduce heat) in the first place. Let's face it. The scoop is cosmetic. It offers SOME and I still say a miniscule amount of cooling for the type of riding most Buells run. The highway touring Buell guys are the exception to the Buell riding clan. And on the highway, winds get wild and calm and rainy and cold and hot and dry and front side rear and other side winds get thrown at you all at once or one at a time. | ||
| Onebuell |
"My old '76 XLCH had a oil tank thermometer and it ran 170-190, depending on the ambient temperature." so much for scoops huh? what are they trying to do? get a buell engine to run at 100 degrees? ha ha ha it ain't gonna happen. the internal combustion reciprocating engine is not a very efficent transformer of energy. It runs on HEAT for crying out loud ! Why let your Buell motor "warm-up" then? It's designed to run at a certain temperature range. | ||
| Onebuell |
CAD can design a scoop. | ||
| Elff |
There ya go assuming again. Ive been around bikes for a long time so your obvious statement isnt. Your the one requiring proof, so I asked you for the same. I guess you cant handle your own requests. Basically put up or shut up. Yup, call the wambulance. This last paragraph of yours is finally something worth paying attention to and it does contradict you stating that the scoop is a piece of $h1t. If you had started off with that instead of bash this argument would not have started. Because you didnt, you arguments now sound like blah waaa blah waaa blah waaaa I am a motorcycle god blah waaa blah waaa blah waaaa Bow down and worship my pompous @$$ blah waaa blah waaa blah waaaa As for Trojan stealing other products, Ive got 2 products on my bike that I could not find elsewhere. The other parts I received from them were reseller items. They also have a slightly different application for the open airbox mod which I prefered. It did not require the rerouting of the hoses. | ||
| Ronlv |
hmm how did you know i was talking about the airbox mod stolen from american sportbike i did my own (similar)air box mod using the stock air box for free the first time i didnt reroute the hoses, but now i have them rerouted out of the filter area under the bottom plate it is a very easy mod can you guess the other parts i am talking about | ||
| Onebuell |
go on and spend more money on quack snake oil. | ||
| Elff |
Nope, which ones are they? I have the Eurofighter seat which is unavailable elsewhere and is an awesome piece of work. It fits perfectly and really transforms the bike. For me, it was the ultimate upgrade for my CityX. I originally chopped up my airbox, then bought the airbox mod from AS as I wanted to open it up even more, painted it, filled in the 2 holes, saved the hoses and ended up using the post from trojan. So both companies got my business for that and I got what I wanted. I decided after I received the AS one that I didnt want to re-route the hoses which is nothing against the AS one or it's quality. Just a change in my requirements of not wanting a catch can. I think AS and Trojan are both good companies and each resell a similar set of products. They also have their own little niches. I would not say that either makes crappy products and both have good customer service. These are most likely 2 of the reasons why they are Badweb sponsors. If people complained about them, I am sure their status would be removed but so far, Im only seeing 2 people complain about their offering. Everyone else seems to be highly satisfied customers. | ||
| Onebuell |
"Reciprocating engines are moderately efficient; perhaps 30-35%; and are rather lower power than gas turbines, even when turbocharged." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine#Power_and_Efficiency so your scoop is doing more or less nothing... case closed.... I suppose you want me to present the 92,000 mile bike's VIN number right so you can take to a shady Harley shop to look up the mileage on it. | ||
| Cataract2 |
Hmmm. I always considered the proof being in the pudding myself. Let's see. Florida heat, check. Humidity, check. Fan running while going down highway or in city, check. Add scoop, check. With scoop going down highway or in city no fan running, check. Hmmm. Some snake oil. Is it worth $200. Not really. I would say $125-150 would be better but exchange rates don't allow that. Oh well, it's MY money. Not yours and I will spend MY money how I please. If YOU don't like the product. Don't buy it and stop bashing those who do buy it. Vote with your wallet and keep the bashing to nill. Buy it and test it to prove your right if you want. Or don't buy it and shut up or at least cut down on the bashing man. Geeze, who pissed in your cereal this morning? (Message edited by cataract2 on July 21, 2005) | ||
| Odie |
I'm still waiting on Al's to come out.....c'mon Al! | ||
| Blake |
I always wonder about the despicable character of a person who gos around badmouthing honorable aftermarket parts retailers. It really really gets some folks all twisted up that what amounts to a custom carbon fiber air scoop sells for a couple hundred bucks. Better to support the rip-off artists and garage shop hucksters selling counterfiet parts on ebay? I say that you are free to not purchase such parts as you deem overpriced or whatever. What you are not free to do here is to make wild baseless accusations of dishonorable conduct against anyone, that applies equally for both sponsors and nonsponsors alike. Ronlv, Uless you retract and apologize for your very combative, baseless and inflammatory accusations against Matt at Trojan, you will not be welcome here. Frankly, if I were Matt, I'd spend a couple hundred dollars or more just to have my attorney teach you a thing or two about libel law. Heck, maybe I'll do it anyway in defense of this Buell enthusiasts' discussion forum. (Message edited by blake on July 21, 2005) | ||
| Wildman4x4nut |
"Reciprocating engines are moderately efficient; perhaps 30-35%; and are rather lower power than gas turbines, even when turbocharged." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_combustion_engine#Power_and_Efficiency Hey look boys & girls, OneBuell can read. And he can even comprehend a little. He just can't understand the words being written here. | ||
| Elff |
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA Good one Wildman | ||
| Jens |
Okay I cant really win anything to say what I think but i cant keep my mouth shut... It is so simple. When you drive in stop and go or in low speed it could make sense to remove the rightside plastic. Because than the heattransfer might be better because of non circulating hot air. If you really ride the bike, the plasticpart catch more air and dirigate it (you say that?) to the rearhead. I rode several bikes without scoops an they getting hotter. A right side big airscoop definatly reduce dramatically the fanrunning. Most bikes (the sensor is not a referencepiece...) have no more running fan at all, also not on a 8h per day Racetrack riding. Except stop and go, than also scoops in housedoorsize will not have any effect. Reducing the fanrunning means less temperature measured from the Rearhead Tempsensor. We use datarecording and record with a AIM up to 35 degrees C less Headtemp with big rightsideairscoop. For your information a deadly leanrunning rearhead can get a plus of 30-40 degree so my expirience. I am the one who rides the bikes to develop the parts, the theorie is Alexs part, he study for that to be a engineer. But out of the practicing i can say, who mean that an airscoop on a bike dont work cant have expirience with twins producing more than 55 HP, or he never used the power of the engine. Greetings from the non Speedlimit country Jens | ||
| Ronlv |
i have bought many products from several sponser's here and i have alot more money to spend i have hillbilly parts, drummer, bitz for buells, odies, daves, american sport bike tried to buy from trojan once but he didnt want to sell me what i wanted, he thought i might copy it(this was his first attack on my character) i guess we just got off to a bad start as you can see from the posts trojan attacked my post first a person shouldnt insinuate that everything they build is their own design, if they dont want to be challenged on it all i know is if i go from vender to vender i can see some of the same parts and everyone wants to claim its their own design everybody just tries to make the same part better and i understand that, and there nothing wrong with that just dont try to make me believe you went to bed one night and dreamed up this part and now you have to go threw all this design, engineering etc i dont mean to hurt him or his business or anyone elses however i am intitled to my own opinion so if you, him or anyone else wants to teach me a lesson go for it it looks to me that if i say something you dont like you are going to threaten me or remove me "Uless you retract and apologize for your very combative, baseless and inflammatory accusations against Matt at Trojan, you will not be welcome here. Frankly, if I were Matt, I'd spend a couple hundred dollars or more just to have my attorney teach you a thing or two about libel law. Heck, maybe I'll do it anyway in defense of this Buell enthusiasts' discussion forum." i dont want to be removed i like it here, i have met people here and learned lots from here, but you are the one with the power i think you, me and trojan should apologize and not attack each other or anyone else i even still want to buy some things from him, but i just cant get over our previous disagreements hopefully we can all just get along | ||
| Brucelee |
Let's face it. The scoop is cosmetic. It offers SOME and I still say a miniscule amount of cooling for the type of riding most Buells run. The ' Again, coming from a man who does not have the scoop. Hmm, you are such an expert. What else don't you have that you are an expert at? |
