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Coastrambler
Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 - 01:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

last couple mornings the bike has coughed and stuttered a bit before starting. Temp has been 50F/10C, likely colder in garage. I get a blinking "System Voltage" and loss of backlight in IC. Then it starts and all goes well for rest of day. Am thinking this is a LiPo battery quirk. I'll need to warm up the battery, like key switch to "ON" then wait a minute before I hit the start button. Or?
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Ceejay
Posted on Wednesday, October 20, 2021 - 08:39 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yeah - Iíve got a shorai and it works best by turning on the bike and letting it sit for a bit before jabbing the start button. Somewhat counterintuitive especially compared to when I had the LA battery as I was always worried it wouldnít start if I left the key on for too long.
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Stevel
Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 03:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If you guys read the direction and advice of the cell manufacturer, not the battery maker, you will note that LiPo batteries do not like temperatures below 10C. This should not be a surprise. Keep the batteries in a heated space at all times.
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Ceejay
Posted on Thursday, October 21, 2021 - 11:40 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Wasnít surprised knew it before I got the battery just sharing how I go about letting it warm up but thanks for sharing your eminent knowledge.
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Coastrambler
Posted on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 02:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Well, pardon me. LOL Even here in sunny central coast California it does occasionally get below 10C. Anyway, it's been raining last 2 days and haven't ridden. Will see about the battery warming using the headlights when roads are dry again. Suppose I could just start it in the garage. Ramble on.
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Stevel
Posted on Friday, October 22, 2021 - 06:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I don't understand you folks that buy LiPo batteries for any motor vehicle in the first place because of this limitation, but if you must for size and the weight advantage they do offer, please remove the battery and keep them inside in a heated space when not in use.
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Coastrambler
Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2021 - 02:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

To be serious for a moment. I got a LiPo because I needed a battery and was curious abt them. Cost difference was not large. Also it's easier to install. As for taking it out to keep it warm. I'm not going to pull the battery and put it in every time I want to ride the 1125. Around here it can be 10C midmorning and 20C by noon. So I'll take the short ride to coffee and the long ride home. When temps drift much south of 10 I take the car. That's my story and I'm sticking to it.
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Stevel
Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2021 - 03:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Of course do as you like, it's your battery. Every exposure below 10C whether charging, discharging or storage will reduce the battery's effective life. LiPo cell life is typically 5 yrs. Following the above regimen has allowed me to use my Segway batteries for 9 years and still going. Your call.
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Bl76
Posted on Saturday, October 23, 2021 - 02:17 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

They don't like working cold, but they actually should be stored cold when not in use. Work with aircraft batteries and we keep them all in a big freezer.
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1_mike
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2021 - 01:22 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mmm, back when I was still working (retired) and driving my RX daily, including down to 45į/46į, 4:30 am winter mornings, I had no trouble with mine.
I turn on the ignition switch, to light the headlight for a few seconds, to also warm the battery slightly. Then hit the start button. ALWAYS came right to life. No studdering, no missing, nothing bad.
Then, because it was kinda loud, I'd drive off as quickly as possible at a low RPM, to leave the area.

Never had a problem with cold.

I DID...however have one lightly explode on the freeway on a warm summer day, on the way home from work. It popped the top off of the battery, shorted and killed the engine. Luckily I had enough speed to get over to the shoulder, only to be flat-bedded home!

Mike
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Stevel
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2021 - 07:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

All Lithium batteries require a Battery Manager Controller (BMC) to survive. The charging system on all motorcycles will kill a LiPo battery in short order. They are crude and dumb. They are designed for lead acid batteries ONLY.
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1_mike
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2021 - 10:25 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steve -

In your opinion...
What's "short order" ?

Mike
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Stevel
Posted on Saturday, October 30, 2021 - 03:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

The term short order means that a dumb battery charger does not sense abuse like temperature, deep discharge, over voltage charging or high current discharge. All of which are detrimental to long battery life. So, short order is a product of the abuse the battery has been exposed to. It can be as little as a week. This is where the BMC earns its keep.
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Coastrambler
Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2021 - 02:24 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Now we're into some interesting territory. Steve implies we should somehow make the bike's charging system , nee alternator and rectifier/regulator into a BMC. Seems to me that a carefully regulated VR output would go a long way in that direction. Our old stator and VR failure bugaboo would be the most serious threat to a LiPo battery. A failed stock VR will put out voltages that are detrimentally high to the entire system, IC in particular. I like my series VR.
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Stevel
Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2021 - 03:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Yes, a series regulator is certainly a major help, but it is no where near enough. Remember a series regulator only limits average wattage out via duty cycle control.
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1_mike
Posted on Sunday, October 31, 2021 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Pretty funny as the battery in my RX was in position and worked just fine...for almost three years of five days a week driving, almost 85 miles a day..!

I for one don't see that as...short order.

And just to be specific, what blew up that battery was a shorted regulator, that let ALL of the alternators voltage into the system..!

NOT...a short order problem..!
In fact, I see the exploded battery as a giant fuse that actually saved the wire harness and other electrical parts from damage when the alternators regulator failed.

I currently have the same part number battery in my little XB12. While I don't drive it every day (retired), it's been there almost two years without problem.
is that...past..."short order" yet ?

Mike
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Stevel
Posted on Monday, November 01, 2021 - 11:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Mike,
Consider yourself lucky. I highly suggest you do your own homework. Don't believe me, no skin off my ass.
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_buelligan_
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2021 - 12:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Iíve been using Shorai LiPo batteries for 5+ years with no problems. 2006 Uly and 2008 Sportster. I have a cheaper LiPo in my GY6 scooter and a small Anti-gravity in my dirt bike. Granted I am in Texas and donít usually have to worry about colder temperatures. Most higher quality LiPo batteries have built in BMC boards on them to keep from damage. Maybe you should do more homework, Steve.
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Coastrambler
Posted on Tuesday, November 02, 2021 - 01:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

If the batteries do indeed have internal BMC's all is well with the world. I'm assuming electric vehicles all have them, either internally or as part of their charger.
Those of us riding collector vehicles are in a bit of a quandary. We are dependent on an internal BMC if our LiPo's are to last. After market such items to add to our bikes are unlikely. Also, a BMC internal to the battery negates a need for a duel mode trickle charger. As to keeping the batteries warm, I've no ideas there. Am inclined to let it ride. It doesn't stay cold enough long enough around here to cause me to take action. Very few days it doesn't get warm enough to ride. Keep the rubber side down.
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Oldog
Posted on Wednesday, November 03, 2021 - 09:41 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Which LI battery do you use, I keep having to replace the Sealed battery and the bike has to be kept on a tender all the time, IFAIK the LI batteries have a small self discharge profiles
My bikes set for long periods, I would like a better battery.
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Ceejay
Posted on Thursday, November 04, 2021 - 05:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Iíve got a Shorai LFX18 something. Previously I had LA and wanted to stick with one due to price but I couldnít find any with more CCA and fit into the small tray than the previous which were 200cca. My bike starts much easier with LiPO and I should have made the switch much earlier. I did get a charger/tender with itÖ
The warming up issue is a minor inconvenience.
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1125rz
Posted on Monday, November 08, 2021 - 08:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I have a shorai battery too for maybe 5 years now . Was tired of replacing stick battery every year or too . Bought the charger for the battery but have not used yet( didnít get much rain/ down time in the past few years
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