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Kf5vud
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 10:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hi guys,

I just got an 08 1125R, which is definitely a different beast than my 04 XB12R.

While the 1125R handles better and brakes better, I find its lack of engine braking disconcerting. I think I read in a review that this bike just doesn't engine brake much, but I'm not sure if that's due to the slipper clutch or something else, like its unusually high idle.

It seems to idle at a minimum of 1500 RPM. Sometimes the idle "hunts" between 1500 and 1750-1800 RPM. This makes riding in bumper-to-bumper traffic in first gear challenging.

I've read that the idle speed is not adjustable, but I assume the owner's manual is referring to the factory ECM not being adjustable. I have a race ECM and an RT3 exhaust. Would it be possible for me to change the maps to reduce fueling at 1500 RPM and below?

Does anyone know what the minimum RPM to ensure adequate lubrication would be? I don't want to spin bearings.

(Message edited by kf5vud on October 12, 2017)
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Araignee
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 01:36 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Welcome to the 1125.

Google on this forum is your friend.

If you are new to the 1125, check the forum thread for new owners to get an overview of the machine and some of it's quirks and problems. The 1125, like other modern large displacement, high compression V-twin engines, has a lot of engine braking. Enough so that manufacturers often try to modulate it.

An owner's manual is a good place to start. You'll find lots of useful information, including idle speed (~1250rpm). There's an owner's manual posted on the forum.

Service manuals, electrical diagnostics manual, and perhaps a parts book are all useful sources of information, even if you don't plan to do any major service yourself.

Regarding the idle speed, make sure the throttle and idle cables are adjusted correctly and ensure they are not binding or sticking. The manual will tell you how to do a Throttle Position Sensor reset afterward, and you can verify your results with the cluster's diagnostic mode. Also check to see if the clutch switch and neutral switch are working correctly.

Assuming your machine has no related problems and is adjusted properly, the relative lack of engine braking is an intentional intervention by Buell to minimize rear wheel hop or skidding on downshifts by increasing the idle speed ~200rpm under certain conditions. A google search on the forum will explain the interactions between the ECM, clutch switch, and neutral switch that govern the machine's stock behaviors.

I run an RT-3 with IDS ECM. Early RT-3 ECMs didn't increase engine rpm as above, but later versions like mine do. It seems to be a popular change. You could send your RT-3 back to IDS and ask them to reprogram that feature to your liking. You'll need to decide if you want to keep the stock clutch switch, which interacts with the ECM to lower the idle if the clutch is pulled in when stationary and in gear. I disconnected mine when I switched to Brembo RCS levers, and have no regrets. I like trying to figure out how the machine likes be treated to perform well, and am willing to make the effort to adapt my technique to it's preferences.

Easiest adaptation is to make a habit of putting the transmission in neutral when you come to a stop, which tells the ECM to drop the idle to the standard 1250rpm or so until you pull the clutch and shift into gear, which brings the idle up about 200rpm. I rely on blipping the throttle on downshifts to smooth engine braking. After riding for awhile with the changes I made that affected the system, I found I just adapted to the raised idle speed.

The 1125 doesn't have the flywheel mass or attendant momentum of an XB, so lowering the idle would make stalling on launch much more likely. This is another reason the system is set up as it is.

The more you know about how your machine works, the better you can take advantage of it's capabilities and keep it running well.

(Message edited by araignee on October 12, 2017)

(Message edited by araignee on October 12, 2017)
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Terrys1980
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 05:54 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

1500 is about right for stock. The EBR ecm lowered it to around 1250ish.

I wouldn't be concerned with lubrication; because of the design of the engine it needs higher idle or the bike will die a lot when trying to take off from a stop..
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Kf5vud
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Thank you for the guidance, fellows. Some of this is that I do need to take the time to completely go through the bike and make sure everything is working the way it should -- and part of it is managing my expectations and adjusting my riding style to this particular bike. That's particularly challenging since I ride several different bikes regularly!

I will definitely keep researching and learning.
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Bubba_
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 09:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Hmm
My 09 1125R engine brakes very well; In fact, I'm careful with it from being thrown fwd into the 'tank' on a few occasions;

I think the newer ECM race map may have reduced the amount of engine braking.
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Panshovevo
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 09:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Keep in mind that the Helicon motor in the 1125 is very different from the 4 cam pushrod motor in the XBs and earlier Buells.

Everything happens at a higher rpm. From the idle speed to the peak torque to the peak horsepower to the redline. The motor runs faster all the way.

It also makes a shitload more power...especially above 5000 rpm. It can be dangerous if youíre not expecting it.
I got careless and hurt myself...significantly. I would suggest getting some professional instruction in managing the high rpm power if youíre not experienced with it.

Like a typical invulnerable 25 year old, iím rebuilding the crashed bike with a big bore kit, 60 mm race exhaust, and an appropriate ECM tuned for the combination.
However, iím 60 years old, and donít heal like a 25 year old any more.
Iím going to get a set of racing leathers to go with the high end Arai helmet already in place.
The next step is professional instruction. Whatever it takes. A relatively small amount of money spent on instruction could save a whole bunch in hospital and doctor bills.

FYI, one trip to the local trauma center (even though it wasnít needed, the paramedics browbeat me into going along with it) billed my insurance company $105,000.
Even though the bill was discounted to $35,000 plus, that didnít include the CT scans and X-Rays, nor the ER Doc, the overseeing hospital Doc, or any of half a dozen other charges.
And my insurance is refusing to pay any of it!

And the pictures that were taken just before I was discharged look like I should be getting admitted...

The billing vs the actual care I received is insane!
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Araignee
Posted on Thursday, October 12, 2017 - 11:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

kf5vud, I spent about 3 months going through my 2009 1125R, even though it had only 1685 miles on it. It can be a pain in the ass to untangle wiring and cables cinched down too tight with zip-ties, and checking bolt torques and so on, but it does pay off. I'd suggest bleeding hydraulics and changing oil and filters, depending on the condition you find them in. Also, check the diagnostics for any problem codes the machine has had in the past.

As panshovevo testifies, you can get into a world of hurt very quickly on an 1125 if you aren't respectful of the power. Once you have the mechanical and detail problems sorted, and have set up the suspension to your liking, you can start getting comfortable with the machine's quirks and enjoy the ride. A properly sorted 1125 becomes a part of you. If you think it, it happens. Best be sure you can handle what you wish for.

panshovevo, sorry to hear of your ongoing struggle with the predatory medical system in addition to your recovery efforts. I also have a long list of damage accumulated over the years, but fortunately the military covered most of my costs.

Good to hear you are planning to rebuild your machine to a higher level, and looking to improve your skills as a rider during your recovery.

As a fellow geezer -I'm 59 this month- I also decided to embrace the serious body armor now available. I don't know where you are size-wise, but I've got an AGV Sport two-piece leather riding suit listed in the forum classified section. If it fits you, I'd cut you a seriously good deal on it, in sympathy with your medically induced poverty. It's a good suit in like new condition. I carefully removed all the stupid logos, as I am not being paid to be anybody's billboard.

http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/21/ 814413.html?1505060260

I was an MSF instructor for a few years when I was stationed in the UK, which did improve both my riding skills and street-based knowledge. At that time, track days were pretty much unknown, so I learned the moderate high-speed skills I have on my own. There are now lots of riding schools and track days, which is cool, but they can be costly in both fees and expendables like tires and brake pads and the like. Still, if I can find the money, I plan to get some track experience.

Hope your recovery and the rebuild are progressing despite the costs and the pain.

(Message edited by araignee on October 12, 2017)
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Panshovevo
Posted on Friday, October 13, 2017 - 02:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Steven, I greatly appreciate the offer, but I doubt it would fit. Iím 5í11Ē, and as a result of back problems that worsened in 2015, then led to three level fusion surgery in 2016, then the major screwup in May of this year, and the formation of a massive chronic hematoma (look it up...rare) in July, and in the last two and a half years, Iíve gone from 175 to 225 lbs...I kind of hate to buy a suit now, as once the healing process from the recent surgery to drain the hematoma is done, I hope to take that extra 50 lbs back off.

I will buy one regardless...I can always sell it if I lose the weight and need a smaller one.

Anyone know if anyone makes a suit with expansion panels, that I might be able to reduce the size of, as I lose weight?

(Prior to the screwup in May, I had been doing a lumbar strengthening routine twice a week in a physical therapy studio, plus doing an hour or more four days a week on an elliptical trainer at home...)

Link to an article describing the hematoma. If youíre not in to bloody pictures, donít look. Interesting read, particularly about the suspected cause.

https://casesjournal.biomedcentral.com/articles/10 .1186/1757-1626-2-9400

The differences between mine and this one was that mine was situated lower, and horizontally. It was also intensely painful at times.

(Message edited by Panshovevo on October 14, 2017)
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Duanelr
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 01:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Very little engine braking?
No.
When I let the throttle snap close, I get pushed into the tank.
If the engine accelerates hard then it will decelerates hard. It's a big twin, it's the reason why there is a slipper clutch.
(come to think of it, check that your throttle-twist-grip isn't hanging up)
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Kf5vud
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 03:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Duanelr, thanks for contributing, but it's already been established that my bike most likely isn't running correctly. Got any suggestions for how to fix that?

I did a TPS reset yesterday and the throttle is not hanging up.

(Message edited by kf5vud on October 20, 2017)
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Kf5vud
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 03:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Also, no one has answered my question about manually editing ECM maps using something like ECMSpy or whatever. Is that possible? Could I manually drop the idle RPMs, considering I have a race ECM?

Furthermore, is it normal for the idle to bounce between 1500-1800 RPM?

(Message edited by kf5vud on October 20, 2017)
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D_adams
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 05:29 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I would suggest an IAC average reset. Get a fan, point it at the bike, start it and let it idle *without* touching the throttle for 10-11 minutes.

Yes, you can alter the idle, I did it on my 08 way back when, there's a map specific to it. I would recommend not doing it due to the lowered oil pressure associated with the lower idle. Mine never failed in 30k+ miles, but they (Buell) set it at 1500 rpm for a reason.
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Dennis_c
Posted on Friday, October 20, 2017 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

Is your TPS at 2? With a Buell race ECM mine idles at 1200 to 1300 and jumps to 1500 at cold start up a second or two never has idle that high have 63,000 miles o n it.
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Kf5vud
Posted on Saturday, October 21, 2017 - 10:44 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only) Ban Poster IP (Custodian/Admin only)

I checked and yes, TPS is at 2 percent.

Did an 11-minute IAC average reset with a fan pointed at the bike. The idle stayed at about 1750, occasionally bouncing to 1900 or so, the whole time.
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