| Author | Message | ||
     Cakemanpa |
whatever dude... Been lurking here for a long time. I was hoping this would be different. Looking like not so much. Back to lurking | ||
| Matteson |
Ehh, we all can't always agree. One thing for sure, when I have had real issues with the Buell these fella's have helped. | ||
| Dennis_c |
All Buells points out the side EBR 1190 out the back  | ||
| Torquehd |
now that i've seen the PM... You may want to stick with facebook or twatter or myface, where the rest of your meaningless stories are in good company with soccer moms posting about their exciting day of grocery shopping, or spot eating his doggie food like a good boy. You riding your motorcycle, and some lady thinking you're loud... has absolutely no significant value. Like all the other stupid BS on social media sites. I now regret my initial jesting response. | ||
| Stevel |
None of the aftermarket exhaust systems will make as much power as the stock system without making other engine changes and even when those changes are made, the power might be slightly more in a narrow speed range, but not across the entire speed range. Specifically, the Buell 1125 stock system is really well designed and optimized for street use. Any slight power increase a aftermarket system makes will be in a very narrow power band and will significantly increase fuel consumption. Exhaust restriction is critical to prevent the fresh incoming charge exiting the cylinder into the exhaust system during valve overlap. Any successful exhaust must be optimized for the "tune" of the rest of the engine. I assure you that the original system was very well optimized for the 1125 motor as it was designed. The 1125 engine uses very long duration cam timing, in fact way to long, at intake 15-60 and exhaust 60-15 @ 1mm lift. Making the timing of the back pressure reflection at the exhaust valve critical. Just bolting on an aftermarket exhaust hurts overall performance including fuel efficiency and effectively stating Erik and crowd didn't know when it came to designing the exhaust. Please note, I haven't even mentioned noise. So, unless you are willing to drastically modify the motor, don't waste your money on a new pipe. You will not only piss off your neighbors, but lose performance at the same time. | ||
| Matteson |
If it has no significant value then leave your whining at the door and post on a thread you believe to have some real personal insight that you can glean some knowledge from. | ||
| D_adams |
Ahh, nope. Sorry, on this, you are incorrect. Unfortunately I cannot post the dyno chart EBR sent me, but going from their stock motor making 127-128 hp up to 143.1 hp with just the RT-3 and their tuning says otherwise. No engine mods, just a pipe and tune. Stock air filter even. 15+ hp proven gains, sometimes more depending on where it starts out at stock. Mine personally started at 122-123 hp stock. It ended up at 139-140 and right at 90 ft/lbs of torque at the wheel. Again, no mods to the engine at all. No idea on the mileage of EBR's test mule 1125, but mine had about 32k miles on it at the last dyno run and had never been apart aside from valve adjustments. One of the engineers there said it best, "You've hit that magic combination" and let it go at that. After EBR tuned it for the pipe, the powerband looked almost exactly like the stock crank rated power numbers, only at the wheel. This chart, drop it down 3 horsepower, that's what it looks like. Torque was pretty much identical as well.  As far as I know, the ONLY other exhaust out there that they've tested and done tunes for that made more power is their own full exhaust system. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I always get a kick out of it when people happy to assault others with unwanted and unsolicited noise from a motorcycle... suddenly get all butt-sore because they got unwanted and unsolicited comments recognizing the fact that they are being rude. The supertrapp IDS on my M2 was nice, a bit louder and deeper than stock, but not that much louder. That suckered me into putting a loud pipe on the 9sx for about 3 months. But it was beyond "a little different and a little louder", it was just loud. I took it back off because I was tired of being rude. My wife has a Dinan kit on a Mini S that has a lovely little growl to go with the supercharger whine. And a great little burble on decel. I love it, and could listen to it all day. But it's not that much louder than stock, just more interesting. I have a KZ-400 I rebuilt from pieces in a bucket, and it's running well and still has the factory exhaust, but it is loud. I don't know if bikes were just this loud in 1978, or if the baffles were ejected or removed in some kind of cloud of 80's bad rock music, but it is LOUD. That's bigger problem for me there. I don't even know if I can get a quiet exhaust for it, and if I do, should I spend $1000 for a quiet exhaust for a bike I bought for $300? It's a shame the noise emission rules are getting so stupid. I don't want things so loud that I have to listen to them from a mile away while I am trying to enjoy a cigar on deck, and I don't want to have to stop my conversation walking down the sidewalk until somebody desperate for attention finishes riding by. But it's silly to neuter a perfectly good motorcycle to make it silent, when wind and tire/road noise from the interstate 5 miles from me is much louder anyway. But right now, I'd say the party behaving the worst is the straight pipes on Harley's crowd, and the louder is better gixxer billy's with the corona tank top. | ||
| Stevel |
D adams, I have stated my personal experience over 50+ years. I did not mis-state it and I'm not wrong, it is my experience. However in fairness, I have not tested your RT3. A 15 HP increase with nothing more than a map change is highly unusual. Power increases across the whole power band are usually a product of changes on both ends of the motor, as well as engine internals. | ||
| D_adams |
All I supplied to EBR back in 2010 (right after the exhaust shootout that mine placed at the top) was that exact pipe. I don't know the mileage on their test mule, I doubt they knew either, but the tuner that ran the dyno stated that the 1125 in question had been abused very hard throughout it's life, was getting worn out and was in need of a rebuild. It STILL made more power than pretty much everything out there. Hands down. This wasn't me claiming that I produced that much power on my personal machine, this was the MFG giving me the numbers they produced. Take that however you want. I didn't actually sign an NDA on the dyno chart, they just asked for a gentleman's agreement not to show it. Obviously, I respect their wishes, even 4 years later. They said I can post the final hp/torque numbers, but not show the chart. The original hp/torque chart from the factory is almost an identical match though. | ||
| Oldog |
Hey Dean is it feasible to build a system with about stock noise output but better access / removal for the 1125? I actually like the quiet of the stock ( I have turn outs for the smoke mess ) but would like to be able to get the thing off easier for service, and have better access to the drains and the oil screen... | ||
| D_adams |
Not really. They did an amazing job making it as quiet as it is, the trade-off is weight and size. I go for power only, noise is just a by-product of making a lot of it. It only took me about 5 minutes or so to get the stock muffler off anyway once I learned the easy way to do it. Hard part was the non-captured nut up front on the oil cooler. Otherwise, it's pretty easy to remove. Loosen the right side foot peg mount and it just slides off the bike. | ||
| Sl33py |
loud pipes arguments are always fun. next up abortion, obama/healthcare, or gun rights "discussion"? | ||
| Albert666 |
rather a sweeping statement, deans pipes are making more power and mine are too, this is what i do every day | ||
| Fresnobuell |
You are an ••••••• then. Plain and simple. SOunds like you suffer from LAMe syndrome (LOOK AT ME!). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
So you are saying as long as you don't get written up, it's cool? Interesting logic there. | ||
| Black9 |
You guys gotta stop disrupting those poor people trying carry on a conversation on their cellphones, instead of paying attention to driving... | ||
| Oldog |
Dean I did not have that much trouble removing it, it is just fiddly and heavy and you cant get the screen off for a look, not to mention the gaskets at the joint, and + 5 on that bloody nut | ||
| D_adams |
You apparently missed this. "although I've gotten a thumbs up from them a few times." I didn't say it was cool or anything else, just making a note of it. On a side note, I got pulled over today on my 1190. The speed just crept up on me, I was listening to the radio and not really paying attention to the speed other than I knew I was passing people. No ticket today either, but the bike is pretty quiet. County sheriff, guy was very nice, also a biker and was apparently feeling lenient today. "85+ and you were slowing down when I caught you" but I wasn't really flying, seriously only a little faster (5-10 mph) than current traffic. I think he was going a fair bit faster than I was to catch up with me though. I guess if you treat them with respect, most officers are pretty damn nice people. Didn't hurt that he liked the bike and wanted to check it out. | ||
| Sl33py |
Fresno - dude wtf?!? I know this is a polarizing issue for riders, but SERIOUSLY - what the ••••• You are personally attacking a guy for saying he wants to be seen (kinda helps from being run over).
I want a case of "LAMe syndrome" - any way i can get it. I prefer it greatly to brake and avoidance gymnastics when they don't see me. silent bike, loud bike - as long as they see me and stop texting for a second to not run me over. I ride like everyone is trying to kill me, and in our crappy weather and traffic in my area, i'm pretty pleased with the few close calls this summer. I don't get the personal attack on a fellow rider - for whatever reason you got your panties in a wad. Who doesn't want to be seen on a bike? I'm not talking about the straight-pipes harley guy at a light who keeps revving it like it's an old knucklehead that has a bad idle problem and is going to die if he doesn't... but regular riders who are going from a-b. What i've liked about this forum was the camaraderie of fellow Buell riders. Don't get the in-fighting, but understand it's like talking politics... | ||
| Zew2888 |
Thumbs Up for Sleepy!  Just get over yourself bro, everyone deserves their own opinion. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Loud pipes jeopardize MY right to ride, which is more important than the guys with loud pipes showing off for whatever reason they use to justify it...loud pipes don't save lives, proper riding does. That's MY opinion. If you are too close minded to see the bigger picture, that's your problem. Sorry. | ||
| Zew2888 |
Im not closed minded, I just feel that if ya like loud pipes then you like loud pipes. I never said that loud pipes saves lives did I? I do agree that proper riding does save lives but I also agree that whatever each individual person likes is what they like. I have never once heard any issue or law stating motorcyclist risk the loss of riding due to loud pipes. People know their own state laws and whether they choose to abide by them or not is their own problem...NOT YOURS. Get off your high horse and quit arguing about something that will never come to agreement between riders. Own opinions are just that. Glad to hear about your opinion and Im glad that others have theirs. By the way, I rock Dean's RT-4 for the power not noise. Have a wonderful day. | ||
| Sl33py |
Fresno - not trying to pile on, but really don't understand your vehemence on this. You are clearly not a fan of loud pipes and concerned that it will lead the majority public to further restricting riders. (see i was paying attention.) Reasonable concern. But isn't it pretty hypocritical to also have an exhaust that is TWO TIMES AS LOUD AS STOCK? Even with a quiet core it is significantly louder than stock. If you were to say performance was key and louder only as a byproduct... then we are talking the same language. But to get on the soapbox and denounce other riders for wanting better performance (and less weight) which ALWAYS equals louder (i know i know... absolutes... find some rare engine/exhaust exception if you'd like...), and yet have an aftermarket exhaust seems pretty much the definition of hypocrisy. Quiet core installed or not. and if you need a repack on your barker - you are louder with less performance. Maybe you should get on that before you piss off some law maker and lose riding rights. | ||
| Brumbear |
You know Fres I been reading your posts and I realized I had a 1 " quite core in my Barker in your honor I removed it and went for a ride. | ||
| Froggy |
I hate to say it, but maybe you can't hear it over your loud pipes. The AMA has been fighting numerous bills, checkpoints, and other things that single out motorcyclists because of the few rotten apples with excessively loud pipes. Do a search online, there are plenty of advocacy groups that are trying to get all motorcycles banned from things like state parks and other public areas, just because of the obnoxious ones. There are already places like many condos and apartment complexes you can't live simply for having a motorcycle, regardless of brand, loud/quiet, or even it was electric. Simply riding around with a loud pipe is just ruining things for everyone else. Full disclosure, I have 5 Buells, three of them running stock muffler (1125R, XB12XT, P3), and the other two (XB12SS, 1125CR) running loud aftermarket cans. There is absolutely zero benefit to riding with a loud pipe on the street. It does not make things safer for you, in fact, I've documented the opposite. I would commute to work and take a tally of times cut off, people merging into my lane, tailgated, or other activity that jeopardizes my safety. With a 35 mile commute, on my stealth black 1125R, I averaged one incident every other day. On my lobster red 1125CR with a RT3 exhaust, I averaged 2 incidents a day. People in general drove more erratic when I was on my loud bike. Clearly they heard me but couldn't figure out where I was, and their reaction was panic. Hard braking, swerving, improper lane changing, or being pissed that I was bothering them so they would take revenge. Driving my 1125R is no different than driving my truck. I am just another person trying to get to work in the morning. It likely is safer riding a loud Harley, as those pipes broadcast most of the sound rearward, so you would be past the driver before they get a chance to run you off the road. | ||
| Zew2888 |
I never said there was a benefit did I? All I was saying is people like what they like and are obviously taking whatever risk they want to take to do what they like. Did I say that plain and simple enough? I like the way my RT-4 sounds, Im very cautious on the road, but yet I am as respectful as possible in neighborhoods. They are the pipes I want on my bike and I don't care what others think. And for people in this thread to get so upiddy about someone making a comment about they way someone looked at him or said something. Crazy. I guess yall better start looking for somewhere else to ride because loud pipes are probably never going away. Find some uninhabited backroads... | ||
| Matteson |
^ ya I know right.? | ||
| Matteson |
I just caught the fresnotool has a barker and is harping about my rt3. What?  | ||
| Torquehd |
I ride like everyone is trying to kill me Hell, let's give them a reason then.... I ride like no one sees me, regardless. I have a barker exhaust, but I'd rather have a nice quiet pipe that I could use to sneak away from somewhere. Don't have that option anymore. But, I do have a little more power than stock, which is the whole reason for spending money on an aftermarket exhaust. You shouldn't count on other people looking out for you, regardless of whatever bells or whistles you have on your bike. Maintain standoff, on all 360 degrees. Always have an avenue of egress. Don't just watch the car in front of you; watch all three cars in front of him as well, and the two beside you, and the car gaining on you from behind. Keep an eye on the road surface. Keep an eye out for johnny law, whether he's coming for you, or simply needs you to GTF out of the way so he can bust a criminal. Keep a finger on each lever. Don't piss off the local populace. Don't ride in blind spots. Don't outride your limits. DON'T OUTRIDE YOUR LIMITS. And, most importantly... stay away from those Goldwings with trailers, trucker mic's attached to the helmets, and the headlights that alternate hi/low 17 times per second... good grief, that's freaking annoying! Your safety is determined by your level of experience, proper maintenance of your motorcycle, and your riding style. And don't forget, sex isn't safe, and neither are motorcycles. |
