| Author | Message | ||
     Nono443 |
http://phoenix.craigslist.org/nph/mcy/3204089537.h tml Did Buell actually do this? | ||
| Jdugger |
Yes, Buell did manufacture some (unknown) number of motorcycles but did not register the VIN numbers, create certificates of origin or do the paperwork necessary for them to be registered. I cannot confirm this particular unit, but "RO" units were manufactured and the story is plausible. Good deal on that bike! | ||
| Court |
I do not believe a word of that. Caveat emptor. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
honestly yes it seems fishy. | ||
| Prior |
It would be interesting to learn what that license plate is registered to... | ||
| Jdugger |
> It would be interesting to learn what that > license plate is registered to... If he's telling the truth, that's just it... Buell pushed a number of bikes through the line that were never titled or registered. So, there's no license plate, because the bike was never registered. | ||
| Court |
It would be HIGHLY irregular to find an 1125 with no VIN. I have the complete listing of all the "special" bikes we used to build and regardless if the bike was one for me to use for demonstration, to go to TechPubs to be torn apart for a Service Manual or a media bike for loan to magazines that ALL had VINs. It's not, strictly speaking, "impossible" but it would be highly improbable. You are more likely to be found in possession of stolen properly, and lacking a very plausible excuse to claim you didn't know, than you are to be getting an unusually good deal. True then . . .true now . . . "if it looks to good to be true . . . . . " Besides . . . Rkc00 is the only one who really runs on to those good (brand new S1 in a barn) deals. | ||
| Jaimec |
The skeptic in me makes me side with Court on this one (not that I disagree with him often). Definitely "if it looks too good to be true..." | ||
| Jdugger |
> It would be HIGHLY irregular to find an 1125 with no VIN. The ones I know about have VINs on the chassis, but no paperwork, so they cannot be registered. I'm not saying this guy is telling the truth.. I'm saying it's plausible. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
there is a plate on that bike. it's bent upwards nearly flat. i'm also curious what that's registered to. as for vin's as far as i know pretty much every vehicle that's made by an actual manufacturer is going to be serialized question becomes whether or not the serial is a vin usable for registration or was just that a serial for factory id purposes like on the genuine XBRR's like the one i saw at Bruces in Daytona there is an ID# on the neck of that bike it's just not a VIN for legal registration purposes | ||
| Court |
The Federal Law dictates all matters related to VINs. Manufacturers don't get the luxury of rewriting the law.   I think Court's right and I almost never listen to the •••••••. | ||
| 1313 |
I may be seeing things, as it's hard to see from such small pictures, but the folded up plate looks an awfully lot like a Wisconsin H-D Manufacturer Plate... If it's true, that would definitely give plausibility. The concept of 'loaning' vehicles to suppliers is tried and true, however. One of the latest issues of one of the moto mags has an article on Brembo. In the article there's a picture of a Panigale and even mentions it is on loan from Ducati. Not intentionally contributing to the conspiracy theory... 1313 | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
even if it were a 'loaner' it would still be serialized | ||
| Prior |
I emailed the listing and asked if it had a VIN and what was missing in order to have it titles- have not yet heard back. They didn't state that it was missing the VIN or serial number It's possible it's missing the certificate of origin, which is what needs to be submitted to a state in order to get the registration/title started, or don't have the title or it's never been applied for. Maybe that's it. I know it's damn near impossible to build anything that resembles a 'vehicle', in my case, construction equipment, without having a VIN or serial number, especially when it's got an engine. The EPA gets all excited about tracking what engines went into and if the engine/vehicle is emissions compliant. If it's a prototype, that's a whole 'nother ball game and then you're dealing with exempt labels for engines and extensive paperwork in tracking it. I bet it's got a VIN and is a production vehicle or someone from Harley would have come looking for it after the EPA came knocking. My guess, giving them the benefit of the doubt, is that the bike somehow fell through the cracks with the closure of Buell and their statements are true- it's a loaner, they don't have paperwork, but cannot really prove if it's theirs. That said, I still wouldn't touch it if it were given to me. No record of it, no title, no registration, no paperwork means a lot of explaining to do if the wrong folks found out about this bike. (Message edited by awprior on August 23, 2012) (Message edited by awprior on August 23, 2012) | ||
| Redcrrider |
I didn't read where they said it didn't have a vin. It doesn't have a title obviously, so trying to register it would be difficult. What bothers me is all the easily sellable items are gone. Why would they remove all the fairings and lose them? Assuming it is not stolen, then you could easily buy a frame off ebay and swap it. | ||
| Jdugger |
I have a buddy with an R.O. bike. It has a VIN, but no paperwork other than an invoice from a manufacturer. Can't be registered -- not even sure what would happen if one tried. It's a 2-smoker in a GP chassis. | ||
| Court |
XBRR's had VINs but, as you can see from the page taken from the manual, they could not be titled for operation on public roads. Certainly good internet theatre . . . very interesting. (Message edited by court on August 23, 2012) | ||
| Sprintst |
I would think the engine has been road hard and put up west | ||
| Tibman260 |
How about someone just calls EBR and asks them? Give the number of old company rehires, someone might even know what bike it is if it is what it says it is. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
The fact that it doesn't have the original wheels seems a little fishy ... | ||
| Raceautobody |
http://www.ebay.com/itm/230839439453?ssPageName=ST RK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649 | ||
| Kevmean |
So according to the ebay advert it isn't even the original engine .......... looks more and more suspicious. They purchased from Buell ...if it was they'd have got a title for it and Buell wouldn't have cared whether it made it to the street or not. | ||
| Duggram |
Why would they "white out" the engine number in the eBay pic? When I zoom in the engine number has clearly been covered over. Also, I thought that when you bought a replacement they came with no VIN number? Could that be the case with this bike? | ||
| Jaimec |
On the other hand, when my 1985 K100 was stolen, it didn't have a VIN on the frame because the frame had been replaced after a crash. The engine still had a serial number stamped into it, and that number was in BMW's database. Unfortunately, if the vehicle was never brought in to a BMW dealership for service in the United States or Canada, it will never be recovered. That's pretty much what happened to me. I know my old dealer would always run the VIN and Engine serial number of any bike he'd never seen before. Of course, I can't guarantee EVERY BMW dealer would do the same either. | ||
| Jdugger |
To me, the story remains "plausible". Certainly, a buyer would want to do some significant due-diligence, but I do see it as possible this is the real deal. Titles come from a state, not a manufacturer, so a manufacturer's bike could indeed not have a title. I believe a bike purchased directly from a manufacturer would almost have to be non-street-legal and not titled, because most states have strict franchise protection laws for dealers on street-legal vehicles. When I replaced the motor in my race bike, it came looking just like the one in this picture. Where the VIN would be engraved into the motor, there's just a blank plate instead. So, yes, a red flag potentially on this deal, but it's also plausible the bike is legit because this can be the case on an RO bike. I've also purchased RO bikes, and known plenty of others with them. The chassis has a VIN, but there's no title, no MSO -- basically just an invoice from the manufacturer. When you trade them, basically all you get is a photocopy of the original invoice and a the trust of the seller the deal is legit! At least among the race community, it works. Do your homework for sure, but this deal isn't impossible. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
if it is i wish i had the cash :-( | ||
| 1313 |
Thanks to eBay mouse over to zoom and some 'puter skills:   Looks like Wisconsin MFR Plate 43 EC to me, 1313 | ||
| Ratbuell |
My thoughts... 1. Why would an exhaust mule bike have a tag in the first place? 2. It was my understanding that any vehicle made by a US manufacturer had to either have a 17 digit VIN number, or a "FOR RACE USE ONLY", stamped on the VIN plate. 3. I didn't think a manufacturer COULD build a complete vehicle, and send it out the door, without an MSO (Manufacturer's Statement of Origin). Titled, not titled, whatever - it has to have the "birth certificate" to make it a legal vehicle. Now...if someone bought an 1125 replacement frame (also impossible IIRC, without a VIN number for the wrecked vehicle to be stamped into the frame before it left the factory), and a complete drivetrain, all the wiring, forks, wheels, brakes (all excessive, and not required, for an exhaust mule)...I could see how it could be possible. But...not likely IMHO. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
This discussion makes me want to go to daytona today. Snap close pics of the XBRR at Bruces it has a vin as court pointed out but there is no title and therefore is not able to be registered. IIRC there was a note engraved that stated 'not for street use' on the frame as well. I think the bike is what he says it is but I would still question the legitimacy of the sellers authority to sell. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Boogi- I might be able to run over there and take a picture, I live in Ormond. I can almost see Douche Rossmeyers from my office. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
I dont mean to sidestep the topic here, but are those XB rims on that bike? Do XB rims fit 1125's? | ||
| Jdugger |
> Do XB rims fit 1125's? Yes, turn them over. Different pulley and (sometimes) rear rotor. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Will that'd be great. It's on the second floor highway side at least it was in march.. |
