| Author | Message | ||
     Tibman260 |
I am geeking out right now. http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/print-edition /2012/07/20/buell-is-back-20m-in-foreign-capital.h tml | ||
| Dannybuell |
http://fox6now.com/2012/07/19/erik-buell-jump-star ting-new-company-line-of-bikes/ | ||
| Stirz007 |
Tib - did you lift that from the WERA board?  (Glad you did - this is pretty cool stuff!) (Message edited by stirz007 on July 20, 2012) | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Ironic it's happening due to the "EB-5" program. Maybe there will be five models? | ||
| Firstbuell |
no kidding - if I was EBR's marketing guru, I'd be ALL OVER an "EB-5" model & accompanying campaign immediately, the coincidence of "EB"s between US Govt & Erik is a 'gift' from heaven hey EBR - run with it! | ||
| Sprintst |
Woot Wonder how this dovetails with the Hero team up (Message edited by sprintst on July 20, 2012) | ||
| Mackja |
AWESOME!!!!!! | ||
| Ogobracing |
Fantastic  | ||
| Xnoahx |
happy that real american sportbikes arent dead | ||
| Tibman260 |
A little background on the EB-5 loan which is how EBR is receiving the money. The program is tied to the US citizenship program. How it works is if an individual from a foreign country wants to become a US citizen, they can receive a green card by taking part in this program. The criteria states that in order to receive their green card, they must provide financial investment money in the form of a loan to a US company that ideally will use the money to create good paying US jobs and provide a product that will also be exported (in addition to being sold in the US). The money that is loaned is just that, a loan. More specifically, it does not come with strings attached other than it needs to be paid back within the agreed upon time with interest. So the obvious incentive for the foreigner is the green card and the interest on the loaned money. For the company receiving the loan, it is a great situation since the loan is purely a loan at a good rate and the loaner has zero influence in how the money is used. Since the US has always been a country made up of immigrants, the point of the whole program is to help those immigrants that want to invest in the US and are willing to "put their money where their mouth is." A small caveat, which I think most people would agree with, is that there are some added safety precautions built into the program. Specifically that all "loan providers" are required to pass a homeland security investigation for obvious reasons. In the case of EBR, the Milwaukee based firm FirstPathways facilitated the sourcing of the foreign investors. All in all a pretty cool program that is a win win for all those involved. | ||
| Christaylor |
Dannybuell, much thanks for the link. | ||
| Alchemy |
Tibman260, if your data is right, sounds darn close to selling a green cards to the wealthy. Is there any obligation to the US other than their wallet --- like military service? Sure puts the "Green" in the green card. Then we bend over and pay them back their money with interest. I hope I am missing something or understand this wrong. | ||
| Tibman260 |
Sure, I guess if you want to look at it that way, and view it in a negative light like that. Are these wealthy people paying off politicians? No. Are these people providing funds to an American company, that is going to hire American workers, many of which will be engineers and other high paying family supporting jobs? Yes. Will those people have any say in how this American company uses these funds to create American products and jobs? No. Will these American jobs pay taxes? Yes. Will Erik withdraw $20 million dollars in $10 bills and fill an Olympic size swimming pool, then swim and laugh at all the poor people who don't have $20 million dollars? No. Will EBR pay taxes on the new people hired? Yes. Will every EBR product that's sold have taxes paid on them? Yes. Will EBR have to sign its own contracts with other companies and purchase more products to make these new vehicles? Yes. How many jobs will those make? So is it wrong that we give them a good incentive to spend their wealth in the US rather in their own country? In my opinion, no. If they get a green card, does it mean that they have the ability to live here and spend/invest more of their wealth here? Yes. So yes a wealthy person can buy there way into the country, but at least they are doing it in a way that directly helps this country. What would you rather them not give EBR the funds? Do you think they should just "share their wealth" with EBR and receive nothing in return? How about we just tax the hell out of them. Instead of providing a means to invest money in ways that can create greater financial benefit to America, let's just have them pay a tax to become a citizen. Or let's try it your way. Just tell them to F'off because we don't want their filthy money and they can keep it to themselves and never come to the US. I seriously don't get people like you. (Message edited by tibman260 on July 20, 2012) | ||
| Sprintst |
Well, better to take successful, rich immigrants than the ones that are just here to get a free ride off our backs | ||
| Dannybuell |
Christaylor ~ Have you ever gone from Troutdale to Sandy on the old road? you can use up every bit of your bike riding on crowned, bumpy butt spanking old roads, nothing but trees, twisties and switchbacks. | ||
| Alchemy |
"So yes a wealthy person can buy there way into the country..." I guess that answers my question. That's all. This is a very desirable country to invest in and it is done all the time without the need for a green card to be attached. Please don't try to spin this as an attack on EBR because it is not. I wish them the very best. I am just learning something new in the form of green card access in the method described by the EB-5 process. I had no idea that a green card could be essentially bought for a million dollars and filling out some forms as it seems. It seems it includes a wife and unmarried children as well if I understand it correctly. People like me find these things interesting. It would be interesting to see which countries these applicants are coming from. | ||
| Tibman260 |
On the contrary, I didn't say you were attacking EBR. If you want to argue that I'm attacking you on anything then I'd admit it's in regards to your statement that "we bend over" to pay them back their money and your attack on these people just because they are wealthy. Quick frankly I'm a little tired of hearing people in this country demonize people just because they have money. I think it's fair to say your quoted statement above shows you either believe these people should just give the money to EBR or there is something wrong with providing an avenue for them to enter this country legally in a way that will help a lot of people. Or maybe you don't think foreigners should invest in our country which I think is a bit narrow minded given the reality of the world we live in. Yes, as you read, citizenship does also apply to their immediate family as well. I think for many the green card wouldn't be as valuable if they couldn't live here with their family. Again though you say the green card can be essentially bought for a million dollars. I'd argue that you are the one twisting a program that provides value to all those involved by simplifying it into a manipulative sentence that implies wrongdoing. I ask you, can you better explain what do you not like about this? When you take out a loan, do you expect to be given the loan at zero interest? Why is it wrong to incentive those that can invest to provide an easy way to invest in the US? | ||
| Iamarchangel |
The problem is that wealth is now the deciding factor for immigration. The problem is that in many countries, that wealth is earned in ways that are criminal. The problem is that much of the money is coming from people who were state enemies 20 years ago. The problem is that the "screening" is arbitrary. The problem is that polarized views stop any real resolution of the problem. The problem is that peculiar political philosophies hijack a thread that should be more of a joy to each of us. | ||
| Tibman260 |
The problem is that wealth is now the deciding factor for immigration. - No, it is a factor but not a deciding one. I'm not pretending we don't need immigration reform but this is not as simple as people are buying their way into this country. "BUT WHAT DO YOU MEAN! THEY ARRREEE PAYING TO GET INTO THE COUNTRY!!!!" There is a huge difference between some jerk paying off a politician who can cook the books and providing a means to incentive people to invest in our country rather than somewhere else. Again I ask, what is specifically wrong with this program other than you listing bumper sticker generalizations versus looking at what is being accomplished by this program. In terms of the EBR deal, what don't you like about it? The problem is that in many countries, that wealth is earned in ways that are criminal. - Same here in the US, so let's just stop everyone from investing because some people do it the wrong way. The problem is that much of the money is coming from people who were state enemies 20 years ago. - I hope you don't have a single Japanese or German made product in your house since we used to be at war with them. Yep, let's forever tell anyone we used disagree with but are now on good terms with to screw off. I am disheartened that you and I can never be friends now. The problem is that the "screening" is arbitrary. - Umm, ok. I don't work for homeland security but given that you are quite in tune to their methods and you say they are probably just taking their name and running it through a google search and then going "Good to go!" (thumbs up) I will take your word for it. If you care to elaborate on how exactly these people are vetted in an arbitrary manner, I'd be very interested in having a better understanding of the process. The problem is that polarized views stop any real resolution of the problem. - Agreed. The problem is that peculiar political philosophies hijack a thread that should be more of a joy to each of us. - Says the guy stating his political views in this thread thus also hijacking it. Last I checked by the way, I started this thread without any political tones and then responded to someone else. Was what I wrote political? Yes, but when someone argues there is something wrong for with which the topic of this thread is being discussed, then responding to it is perfectly within reason. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Iamarchangel ~ Bulls Eye! Sometimes the money is as close as Mexico, and as far away as India or China. | ||
| 09cr |
I've found this dead horse, has anyone seen my stick????  As for the implications for EBR: Yeah buddy! Perhaps this will allow the incoming models to come in at a slightly lower cost? I'll admit that regardless of their cost, I won't be able to purchase one, and thus won't be able to perpetuate the company, but I sincerely hope that there is enough interest, and that it's a good enough bike to continue Erik's dream. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
So, Tibman260, get over yourself. I can do political conspiracy or I can go for a ride. I don't like to do both at the same time. I'm in another country. We have a similar program here with similar problems. Although you make it too easy, out of courtesy to your country, I'm not going to engage more on this. Knock yourself out. My main point is that I come to this forum to discuss Buells not to get caught up in US political baggage. So, what do you think? What kind of spin-off can be created by EB, EBR, and Hero? | ||
| Tibman260 |
No worries buddy, I'm not the hypocrite telling someone to stop discussing politics after expressing my own point of view. BTW it's so easy to tell someone that you would continue discussing things with them because "it would be so easy" and then walk away, but it's hard to actually explain your point of view when someone challenges it. As for a spin-off I'm not entirely sure what you mean. Are you asking what kind of bikes can be created now between EBR and Hero? If that's the case my guess is their bikes will be very separate designs that have little crossover. As far as I can tell, EBR is trying to position themselves in the premium/exotic market whereas Hero is in the low end commuter type bike market. Hero makes 23k bikes a day where I'd be surprised if EBR was trying to produce that many in a year within the next five years. Both have strong brands that have customer loyalty so I don't see a new brand between the two. My best guess is EBR will continue to support Hero by bringing their design expertise to them for support in creating a new line of bikes to take them into the future for their market. EBR would likely be able to learn a lot from them regarding efficiently producing bikes since they obviously have to be doing something right to be producing that number of bikes per day. Happy riding. (Message edited by tibman260 on July 21, 2012) (Message edited by tibman260 on July 21, 2012) | ||
| Iamarchangel |
This forum is for Buells. I'm wondering what Hero gets out of the deal. They don't have exposure to a US/NA market. Buell/HD have tried the Blast and Sprint idea as brand draws in the past. The Sprint was a really bad fit. So, what if Buell helps Hero set up a network that pays some of the bills and provides local parts network and dealer outlets for EBR? | ||
| Tibman260 |
From what I have heard, Hero needs a partner to develop new motorcycles since they are no longer with Honda. http://www.asphaltandrubber.com/news/erik-buell-ra cing-partners-hero-motocorp/ As of now, the Hero EBR relationship is purely on a consultation basis where EBR is filling the void that Honda left behind. So as for what Hero gets out of it, is new motorcycle designs and the expertise of EBR. At a minimum Hero will likely be developing bikes for the Indian market. Outside of that, I don't know. Could Hero make a play for the US and Euro markets? Sure, and EBR could help out with that since they have expertise there as well. EBR is working hard on their own already signing up dealerships and extending its reach in the US and Europe. I don't think Hero would be playing a big hand in that since they don't appear to have any sort of knowledge of either market. Hero is funding the EBR race effort so the Hero brand is getting some name recognition within the AMA roadracing demographic subset of the motorcycle market. You might argue that could be leveraged for a future introduction into the US market, but could also just be the deal set up between the two companies as part of the consultation gig. | ||
| Jgarner99 |
Tibman, You are 100% spot-on in your analysis of the political implications (if there are any; it seems rather straightforward to me). Like you, I don't understand the people who are outraged. Let's see, we've got at least 20 million people in this country who are here WITHOUT Green Cards, who have NOT been vetted by Homeland Security in any way, who are NOT investing any money in America (in fact, a recent study indicates that over half of them are collecting public assistance of some sort) and who, because they mostly work under the table, are not paying their fair share into the tax coffers.... But, no, let's vilify someone who's actually creating jobs and growth and exports and tax revenues.... Morons. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
are not paying their fair share into the tax coffers.... But that's the American way, minimal tax and let others pay it, they win. Must.Resist.Responding.To.Bovine.Scat.And.Polarizi ng.Comments. pfft, failed again. Anyway, trying not to get distracted. It's hard to see the value an Indian company, with no Western market, can get out of their deal. Just wondering what potential is available. I don't know about Stateside but, here, we're starting to see quite a few different Asian bike brands being marketed. I think they look pretty flimsy but they are legal and they are selling. | ||
| Tibman260 |
I guess I'm not sure how to explain it any other way. Hero needs assistance in designing or redesigning motorcycles because Honda is no longer their partner. Honda was doing their design work, Honda is no longer doing their design work. Hero still likes selling motorcycles. They don't want to keep selling the same thing. They hired EBR to do the design work that Honda did. The benefit to them is EBR knows how to design motorcycles so by paying EBR they will receive new designs. | ||
| Ljm |
I do paranoid and dangerous for a living and this seems like a good deal to me. I would much prefer contributors who we know who they are and where they are than not, and we get the chance to get new EBR motorcycles. Perfect! | ||
| Rhard |
In response to what Hero gets out of the EBR deal, I believe that Mr. Buell has a few patents to his credit. Pretty smart guy. |
