| Author | Message | ||
     Rogue4 |
This is getting old. I'm officially at a loss on what it could be this time. I'm sure most of you have seen my other thread. The culprit that time was a mix of a small exhaust leak, intake leak and loose spark plug. I was supposed to go on a 900 mile trip. I made it 90 miles and the bike started acting up. I turned around, put it in the garage and didn't want to look at it I was so pissed off. How many problems can a bike with 4,500 miles have? Anyway I do all of my own work, and it's been ok so far but I am no mechanic. Diagnosing the problem is something I cannot do so I will try to explain the symptoms the best I can to you guys and hopefully get some advice to go off of. Hard starting. Stalling, this is a huge problem in first gear. I have to really feather the clutch to get enough momentum going to get in second gear. Once I finally get into sixth gear things get really weird. Popping, stuttering, no power, sometimes I can be going 70mph and give it full throttle and nothing happens. More stuttering and still going 70mph. Gas mileage is horrible. At 75ish I was getting 15-17mpg. This is inconsistent though. About once out of every five times if I close the throttle and gently roll it back on everything smoothes out, no more jolting and get 24-26mpg. Still not where I should be but it's still a lot better. I would also say I go from 40% power to 80% the few times it does it. The longer I ride the bike the worse it gets. The bike was barely drivable by the time I got home. Stalling in the middle of a 4 way intersection is a blast. No codes, no CEL's. I checked both spark plugs and they're tight. I don't see any problems with connections. Battery voltage is great. 14.0 when riding. Here are some other numbers I pulled from the bike in DIAG mode: Not running- TPS voltage 0.6-3.9, MAP KPA 96.5 voltage 3.9, IAC steps 130, FUEL KPA 472 voltage 3.2 Running- MAP KPA 45 voltage 3.0, IAC steps 115, FUEL KPA 420 voltage 2.9 I left a few out the seemed non pertinent. Before everyone throws out the universal "Do a TPS reset" answer that always comes out, I've done multiple. It either has something to do with the fueling or an electrical problem. I've heard of some people with EBR ECM's having big problems and bikes running like crap with them. It just came back from getting re-flashed for the Keda RT-3 about 2 weeks ago. I'll also pull the spark plugs tomorrow and snap a pic but I'm sure they look fouled up. The bike shut off three times while I was pulling the numbers above. Idling fine, no warning at all, it just dies. Help me out here guys. | ||
| Mhpalin |
Try the stock ECM it's something quick and easy to do. Mike | ||
| Rogue4 |
That was the first thing on my list to do tomorrow. I really hope that it's the ECM but I'm afraid the problem may lie deeper. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
I'm new at trouble-shooting this particular bike but, as you're not getting codes, I'd look for issues that are not picked up by sensors first. A faulty clutch will have some of those symptoms. Usually, you'd find them in a hard raced bike but poop happens to newer bikes too. I'd also be looking at the injectors. I know everything tells them what to do, don't know what measures to make sure they're actually doing it. I think that takes you back to the ECM. | ||
| Brumbear |
does it have a cali can? | ||
| Rogue4 |
No Cali can. Like I mentioned earlier, I am no mechanic but I do not think that it's a problem with the injectors themselves. | ||
| Brumbear |
I would make sure it is at least not a venting problem aka vapor lock or air lock.But in all probability it is your ecm. | ||
| S21125r |
Rogue - get yourself a laptop, download the free copy of tuner pro along with the free data acquisition stuff that Xopti put together. Build or borrow a cable (~$30) and you can then log just about everything under the sun. According to my copy of the log definition file, there are 126 items that can be logged including BARO, MAP, TPS, Air temp, Engine temp, Fuel pressure, O2 Sensor, injector pulse widths, IAC steps, spark advance, all corrections, plus a few others that may be of use. I have several logs of a clean running 25r with BUE2D firmware so if we compare a log from your bike and mine it might help isolate what is a "normal" reading vs. what should be on the suspect list. Even if you can only come up with a lap top, I can mail/loan you my cable for a few weeks. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Something as simple as a kinked vent hose? Have you checked the hose in the throttle body area (different hose than above)? Ensure the hose is not binding in the throttle body and pulled through. I think Zac4mac found the solution on this (do a search) Are you sure your battery posts are clean and tight? Simple things I know but worth checking. | ||
| D_adams |
I have a set of injectors I can send you if you want to try them. Took me about 1/2 an hour on the parking lot at the Alpine lodge to change them out. | ||
| Rogue4 |
Thanks Dean but it's the ECM. Threw the stock one in today. Started right up. Let it idle for awhile and went on an 8 mile ride. I didn't want to ride very long because I knew my AFV's would be out of whack. Ran as good as a bike can with a race pipe and stock ECM. Never died, surged, or stuttered. AFV'S were 135/122.5 So now this will be the third time EBR has had the ECM. I'm considering telling them to keep the POS and tuning the bike myself. | ||
| Froggy |
The problem isn't the Race ECM, it is your bike. Your AFVs on the stock ECM are out of whack because of something being wrong with your bike. It is using about 30% more fuel than it should to run right, and the Race ECM is not compensating the same way as the stock one did, hence it is not running right. For some reason your motor isn't getting enough fuel, I would lean towards clogged injectors or failing fuel pump. Fix your bike. | ||
| D_adams |
An RT-3 requires a fair bit more fuel than stock, but I'm surprised the spread between front and rear wasn't even greater. | ||
| Rogue4 |
Dean and I are on the same page. I was under the impression that the ECM was throwing the bike 30% more fuel because of the pipe. I'll put the stock pipe back on today and check the AFV's. If they're both close to 100 then it's the EBR ECM. (Message edited by Rogue4 on July 16, 2012) | ||
| Firemanjim |
My guess is fuel pump. Not running calls for 517 and then at 4000 it wants 380-417. At an AFV of 135 the bike is adding 35% more fuel. No pipe needs that much. | ||
| Rogue4 |
With stock ECM: Not running: 502 Running: 405 | ||
| Firemanjim |
Is that at 4000 rpm running or just idle? Have seen fuel pumps look good at idle but unable to keep up at high rpm. | ||
| Rogue4 |
I should have specified but yes that was at 3500-4000. I'm watching a fuel pump on eBay for $130. The ECM is at EBR. If they say there's nothing wrong with it then I'm going to try the fuel pump and throw the injectors in my ultra sonic cleaner. It will get expensive but since I cannot troubleshoot the problem I guess I just to need to eliminate one variable at a time. | ||
| Rogue4 |
I'm talking out if my ass here but what are the chances of the problem being o2 sensor related? | ||
| D_adams |
Disconnect them with the race ecm and it will run off the base map only with no correction. With the race ecm, it should not throw any code from doing that. | ||
| Rogue4 |
Food for thought. I gave a brief description of my problems to Danny Bilansky and just received this e-mail: The 135/122 AFV’s are what I would expect with a stock ECM. It’s not hurting anything with those numbers, it’s just doing its job. The O2’s are sensing that it needs more fuel cause of the exhaust (RT-3) and so the AFV’s are increasing. The higher the AFV number the richer the fuel mixture. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
My 2008 1125R is running at 100/100 AFV's since the day I got EBR's race ECM, one of the first from them after giving Michael Richter my exact pipe configurations, I.E. diameter, and length of all pipes & what type of muffler I was using and running a K&N air cleaner. My system is just about a duplicate of Deans. I believe with that particular ECM, even though the O2 sensors are still connected the are out of the loop. My bike has never been so strong in all rpm ranges and continues to be so. I think just maybe Froggy is correct on this one as 30% more fuel usually dictates extra air from somewhere, maybe an intake leak. | ||
| Rogue4 |
Like I mentioned earlier Bob, the race ECM still reads 100/100 on my bike as well. I'm sure that when EBR programs them they're locked at 100/100. Danny just confirmed my thoughts. The stock ECM is throwing those AFV's because of the pipe. I really wanted to install the stock exhaust on today to see what they would be but the wire mesh inserts are pretty much destroyed. My money is that if the stock exhaust was on the bike my AFV's would be very close to 100/100. I am definitely not a subject matter expert on these bikes though and could be wrong. My intake seals have less than 300 miles on them. I tested them anyway and do not have any kind of intake leak. (Message edited by Rogue4 on July 17, 2012) | ||
| Advanced66 |
After reading ur posts, I believe you've inadvertently may have helped me, firemanjim , you say that you've seen fuel pumps that idle fine, but crash under load., this describes what's been happening with my 08. It's been progressively getting worse. Manual tps reset helps to get it going again, but only works for a little while. Should be noted that all other obvious situations have been checked, batt., exhaust, wiring, air filter, etc., think I'll install new pump and see if it helps, thanks | ||
| Rogue4 |
You're on the same track as me. If my ECM comes back fine, the fuel pump is the first thing I'm replacing. But it runs fine with the stock ECM.... | ||
| Brumbear |
advance is your machine denoided? | ||
| Advanced66 |
Lol, sorry, don't know what denoided is. | ||
| Rogue4 |
I'm not advanced66 and not sure if it matters but mine is. | ||
| Rogue4 |
Brumbear is talking about the active intake solenoid. Do a search a search. Lots of info. | ||
| Advanced66 |
Are you talking about ecm ?, if so, I'm running a power commander 3 as well as a dry nitrous system , over 20k, with no issues, till a couple months ago. |
