| Author | Message | ||
     Father_of_an_era |
So, I installed the EBR clutch actuator to eliminate the clutch weep today. Now, I can't get the clutch to build any pressure. I can't even bleed the clutch line because I can't get anything out of the bleeder. No air or fluid. Any ideas? The job looked easy enough but being that I learn as I go and have no mechanical knowledge, I can sure use some help right about now. Any input is greatly appreciated. | ||
| Tmchcrk |
If you remove the line from clutch cover is fluid coming out of the line? (gravity do not pull the lever) | ||
| Kenm123t |
Take the cap off the master cylinder add fluid. The diaphragm is sucked into the resivoir and your probably out of fluid | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
I can get the fluid to come out when it is not attached. I don't have the cap on the mater. It has been off the entire time. This sucks! Do you guys think I need some sort of vacume to get the fluid started? | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Sorry for the misspelling, fingers can't keep up with the brain. Or, maybe its the other way around. lol | ||
| Tmchcrk |
Might help I use the Mighty Vac hand vacuum with good results. Maybe try and remove the bleeder valve completely and let it gravity bleed? | ||
| Pmjolly |
Don't pull the clutch lever with the cover off unless you go really slowly with it. It will shoot brake fluid all over you and the bike. Don't ask me how I know! I used a hand held vacuum pump designed for bleeding brakes, but it is not necessary. I wonder if the EBR actuator has the same little notch that has to line up when pressing it into the clutch cover. With the OEM, this little notch lines up the opening with the clutch line. | ||
| Pmjolly |
That's what I used too. Mighty Vac. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Where did you guys get the mighty vac? I watched the video that was posted on how to change the actuator and saw how the clutch pull would shoot the fluid up like a fountain. However, mine will not even do that. | ||
| Tmchcrk |
The Mighty Vac is great! Does the job much faster and cleaner. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I got mine at Autozone. I swear, I pulled the clutch lever with the cover off, and a full reservoir, and I had fluid all over me and the bike. It was a mess. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Ok, tried the vac and still no go. I am completely confused right now! I took the puck off along with the spring and smaller part of the actuator. I can hear the fluid gurgle as I push in the clutch lever but still can't get any pressure to build up or fluid to bleed out of the valve. WTH??? | ||
| Zac4mac |
I just did it at the shop a couple of weeks ago. Pumped that lever 1,000,000 times at least. Finally felt the piston move and got enough pressure to burp the fitting a couple of times. A dozen or so slow squeezes then I bungeed the lever pulled in for the night. Next morning, the lever was solid. no bubbles, no squish. Z | ||
| Nuts4mc |
1) be careful- the brake fluid will eat the plastic parts up in the fairing especially the headlight assy. 2) if you do spill the brake fluid - a spray bottle with water will dilute the fluid- just don't get the water in the reservoir 3) aluminum foil can be used to "shield" the plastic parts from the fluid if you get too messy 4) you can reverse fill the clutch cylinder with a hypo from the food cooking area at a food store (wal mart) the hypo is used to indirect flavors into meat. 5) assemble the spring and piston back into the cylinder (pre lube the orings with brake fluid ) 6) attach the hypo to the bleeder valve down by the clutch cylinder...make sure the bleeder is open ( at least 1/2 turn) use some plastic tubing ( clear) if you have some ( buy some @ home depot) tie the tubing to the hypo and bleeder with some small ty wraps - you're trying to seal out the air. 7)remove the reservoir cover up on the handle bar- have some one watch the level while you force the brake fluid in. 8) slowly inject the fluid ...you're trying to force the air up and out 9) once the reservoir is full..tighten the bleeder valve - remove the hypo (throw it away!)and put the reservoir cover back on. 10) try your clutch - if it still is "mushy" you'll need to bleed it the old fashion way with the bleeder down by the clutch cylinder....(pump pump pump, open the bleeder while holding the lever against the bar (do not let go until you've closed the bleeder valve)...watch the fluid level in the reservoir don't let it get too low - you'll inject air into the system), 11) the air likes to get caught at the right angle bends ( by the radiators) try lightly tapping the line to get the bubbles out. 12) On brakes I have tied the brake lever back against the bar over night ( with a ty wrap) - the lever opens the "valves" in the master Cyl. and sometimes the air makes it way out over night...I haven't tried this on the clutch - I don't think the springs are strong enough to push back with enough constant pressure ( like a brake pad on a solid disk)to make the fluid remain in a static state and the air get's to travel up and out. ======================================= Patience is needed when working on this part of the bike - don't hurry, don't set any dead lines...good luck (Message edited by nuts4mc on May 21, 2012) | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
thanks Nuts. I used a tie rap to pull the lever back and secure it to the grip. I will check in the morning if this helps. | ||
| 99buellx1 |
I have found that I can't get the master to pump if I have the cap off, place the cap back on (unscrewed) and try again, it should then pump and you will be able to bleed it. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
"Don't pull the clutch lever with the cover off unless you go really slowly with it. It will shoot brake fluid all over you and the bike. Don't ask me how I know! I used a hand held vacuum pump designed for bleeding brakes, but it is not necessary. I wonder if the EBR actuator has the same little notch that has to line up when pressing it into the clutch cover. With the OEM, this little notch lines up the opening with the clutch line." If you put a penny in the MC over the hole that fluid normally shoots out, it will block the fluid from spraying up in the air, and instead the fluid will slowly disperse in the mc. no spillage! | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Thanks Dktech, but unfortunately, I can't get it to shoot up or even gurgle at the master cylinder. I took a needle and forced fluid into the bleeder valve. At this point, I think I am going to take the EBR out and put the original back in just to see if I can get the clutch to prime. I even tried to use the syringe to force fluid from the clutch side downwards toward the bottom. Maybe I didn't seat the EBR in properly but I can't see how I could have screwed that up. The weather is great and the bike runs tip top and yet I can't take her out and enjoy it because I broke her while trying to fix her! How does that happen???? | ||
| Torquehd |
mityvacs make it easier, but they aren't necessary. with a full master cylinder, and a wrench on the closed bleeder valve (on the clutch cover), pump the lever a dozen times, hard and fast. on the last pump, hold the lever in, loosen the bleeder valve, then close the bleeder valve. then let go of the lever. repeat until air no longer spurts out of the bleeder valve. if you do this four or five times and still can't get anything, try removing the banjo bolts from the clutch line and observe whether or not fluid is coming through the line as you pump. and don't worry about the geyser of DOT-4. it's corrosive if it sits for a while, but as long as it doesn't set for too long, it's not going to cause problems. once you START getting the geyser, then you can put the cap back on the master cylinder. just be sure to verify the fluid level after you've finished bleeding. | ||
| Jaredc01 |
Why does it seem like no one is reading the actual issue he's having, and instead posting about DOT 4 fluid squirting and diluting techniques? | ||
| Nuts4mc |
the issue MAY BE a cut "O-ring" on the outside of the clutch slave cylinder - they are small in cross section and can easily be cut when installing the cylinder into the clutch outer housing. to make it even more difficult the cylinder has a "key" ( at least in the earlier version housing) which means you need to pay attention as to how the cylinder gets started into the housing with "lubed" Orings. Rotating the cylinder to align it to the "key" isn't easy and could take a special tool. as far as squirting brake fluid goes - most rice burners have a small sheet metal "cover/divert-er" in the bottom of the master cylinder's resv. to prevent any geysers...I'm afraid the cost accounts saw the ones used on the 1125's master cylinder's resv has an opportunity for a cost savings.... If "father" removes the clutch housing and brake fluid spills out all over the engine - he has most certainly cut an Oring on the outside of the clutch slave cylinder and needs to replace those small cross sectional Orings before going any further. | ||
| Torquehd |
if the oring was cut, brake fluid would probably be dripping freely from the clutch actuator cover. which might be a good thing to check; you may want to verify that you're not loosing fluid out the weep hole again. fatherofanera, you're certain you've removed both the aluminum cover and the rubber diaphragm, and are looking down into the machined aluminum master cylinder? | ||
| Pmjolly |
Torquehd, I have actually seen what you are suggesting happen. A Dallas Harley dealer's service department put brake fluid on top of the diaphragm in the master cylinder of a friend of mine's Buell. It made a mess. Every time I read a thread like this, I want to come help in person, because I know I can make it work. They are never close enough. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Ha! Torquehd that is funny! Sad, but funny. Though I am a novice, I do have enough knowledge in my non-mechanical brain to understand that I need to remove all of the upper components of the master cylinder's top/lid (don't ask me how I learned about the diaphragm, because I made a mess too)  . Unfortunately, I don't have the time to remove the actuator right now but I will definitely remove it this week end and check the rubber seals. I did however pop of the clutch puck and didn't see any fluid drip out nor did I see any wetness directly behind the cap. Also, I did put the Dot 4 on all of the rubber seals prior to putting the EBR actuator in. And, to answer the earlier question, there is a notch cut into the cup of the actuator to fit over the "key". I made sure to line that up. I don't think it would have fit otherwise. You guys are great and I really do appreciate all of your efforts and insight. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
Ok, I redid everything and still can't build pressure in the clutch. Can anyone tell me if I need to tighten the spherical nut all of the way or do I need to stop at a certain torque setting? Should I allow the motor to idle for a a while to generate that vacuum assist? | ||
| Pmjolly |
There really isn't that much to this procedure. I wish I was closer. I'd come help. There must be something wrong with your setup. Do you know any other Buellers nearby? I would think there would be plenty of Buellers in California. | ||
| Pmjolly |
Idling the engine is not necessary. The vacuum assist makes it easier to pull the lever, but does not affect the hydraulic fluid you are attempting to bleed. I never torqued my spherical nut. I just tightened it up the best I could. I used a box end wrench and an allen wrench. I couldn't figure a way to get a socket on it for a torque wrench with the allen wrench in there. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
No, I sure don't. I wish I did though. I can't believe something this simple is throwing me for such a loop. I wonder if my master cylinder went bad or something? It has to be something simple I just can't figure it out. | ||
| Father_of_an_era |
FYI: Sears sells a craftsman socket wrench set called Max Axcess that basically has a hole through the center of the socket that allows for elongated bolts to pass through or maybe even the use of an allen wrench to pass through. It works really well for these types of applications. | ||
| Pmjolly |
I have the revised OEM clutch slave cylinder. I will get the EBR part you got if this one ever fails. I wonder if there is something with the EBR part that is different enough to change the procedure? Did it come with instructions? I keep expecting to find a post here with a 'DOH', meaning you realized something simple and got it working. |
