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03fatboy
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:06 am: | 
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I love watching my dick is bigger than yours debates, funny shit. I love my 1125r, I also own a Ducati 848 Evo. On the track I actually prefer the Duc on the road it is a toss up. I don't believe there are too many people out there that could get even to the edge of what either the 1125 or 848 are capable of on the track. I certainly know my ability is far below both bikes capabilities, and would wager that most people are in the same boat, or I would be watching you on TV. So I can only imagine what an 1190 or 1199 will be like. Both amazing bikes, by amazing companies full of innovation. I understand brand passion but really it is just like saying my dick is bigger than yours. Who cares buy what floats your boat and enjoy the hell out of it. |
Juniorkirk
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:40 am: |
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Alright, did 5 minutes of searching, and this is what I found:
2012 Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 361.5 lbs. (http://www.ultimatemotorcycling.com/2012-ducati-11 99-panigale-preview)
2012 EBR 1190RS: 389 lbs. (http://www.erikbuellracing.com/motorcycles/1190rs/)
For the Duc, that is dry weight, for the EBR it's no gas weight. take the 3 quarts of oil out of the EBR and you are down to 383.375 lbs. Then lets just say there is a gallon of coolant in the bike as well, so now the bike is down to 374.375.
Totals
EBR 1190RS: 374.375 lbs.
Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 361.5 lbs.
So the Ducati, if that is the real weight, is almost 13 lbs. lighter than the EBR.
BUT, looking at wet weights and adding the weight to the EBR for gas, the weight difference is a lot less.
Wet Weights:
Ducati: 414.5 lbs.
EBR: 416.3285 |
Duphuckincati
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 11:16 am: |
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Re: Cycle Guide, they did stop the print version back in the early seventies, but...
http://cycleguidemagazine.blogspot.com/
Although this seems to be the only main page, and it's the same font/logo as the old print version. So...?
(Message edited by duphuckincati on April 20, 2012) |
Xb9er
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 12:58 pm: |
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I read in road racing world that the total weight of the 1199 is 414lbs. That's full of gas and ready to rip. I'm not sure what the 1190 would be but I imagine it is close. If you turn off the tc on the 1199 I'm sure the 1190 would run just in the lead. The geometry of the 1190 is far more advanced |
Juniorkirk
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 02:50 pm: |
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The Duc has 195 hp and 98 ft-lbs of torque, the 1190 only has 175 hp and 97 ft-lbs of torque. As far as weight and power, the Ducati looks like it will slaughter the EBR |
Guambra2001
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 03:47 pm: |
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The duc has those sweet LED lights and electronically adjustable suspension. Love EBR and what they stand for but ultimately the Ducati beats it in all aspects. |
Jaimec
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:41 pm: |
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On the other hand, look how well that high-horsepower, frameless design worked out for Ducati in MotoGP...
The only man who could do ANYTHING with that bike was Casey Stoner... and every year he won less and less races as Ducati "improved" it for him. The Panigale is the culmination of that effort.
(Message edited by jaimec on April 20, 2012) |
Crowley
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 04:46 pm: |
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03fatboy has hit the nail on the head there
Much as I love my Duc 1198 (...and it has so much performance I'm not capable of using ANYWHERE near it's potential), owning it has made me realise what an utterly fantastic bike the 1125 really is |
Froggy
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 05:41 pm: |
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quote:Totals
EBR 1190RS: 374.375 lbs.
Ducati 1199 Panigale S: 361.5 lbs.
So the Ducati, if that is the real weight, is almost 13 lbs. lighter than the EBR.
Dry weight that Ducati is using also factors in things like no battery. Given that there is no real standardization for what is considered dry weight, the only true comparison is wet weight minus fuel, which EBR uses. The wet weight numbers you posted are a good indicator that the bikes are very close regardless. Given they both have the same size gas tank you aren't going to see one bike look a lot heavier than the other. |
Sprintst
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:13 pm: |
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quote:The geometry of the 1190 is far more advanced
Based on what? |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:27 pm: |
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>>> Dry weight that Ducati is using also factors in things like no battery
Thanks Frank. "Dry weight" is really "shipping weight" minus oil, fuel and battery. |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 09:59 pm: |
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On the other hand, look how well that high-horsepower, frameless design worked out for Ducati in MotoGP...
The only man who could do ANYTHING with that bike was Casey Stoner... and every year he won less and less races as Ducati "improved" it for him. The Panigale is the culmination of that effort.
^^^ Well stated. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:06 pm: |
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Years ago . . . I dreamed of the day where folks would have to scratch this hard to try to find a difference between a Buell and the flagship Ducati.
I'm thrilled.
Buell . . . after years of hard work, sweat and tears . . .has earned the right to be here . . . . |
T_man
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 10:31 pm: |
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Fatboy did hit the nail on the head in terms of the performance capabilities of these two machines, but I still feel the camparo is a valid and not entirely self appreciating query. These are high performance machines and ultimately will be compared!
Personally I'd pick the EBR for the long stroke motor and sentimental value. The HP of the EBR is likely RWHP vs crank of the Duc by the way, also the ride away weight is likely within a few pounds in favour of the RS. To each their own, but Court had a very valid point too. My 2 cents. |
Mickeyq
| | Posted on Friday, April 20, 2012 - 11:40 pm: |
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I see the Panigale as a reaction to a preceived threat by Ducati. They see EBR as a serious threat to their future, therefore you see a radical departure in traditional design--absolutely amazing--no more steel trellis, then centralized under engine exhaust!!! Ducs are great bikes without question; but, American ingenuity is showing the way. |
Chessm
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 04:06 am: |
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"They see EBR as a serious threat to their future"
i seriously doubt that. the real reason is they thought they needed a super short stroke motor to be able to stay competitive in WSBK
little did they know they just needed checa on their bike |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 06:19 am: |
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Actually there is alot of truth in what T-man said. I remember reading somewhere that the EBR was 175 REAR WHEEL HP, which would mean it is actually right around ducati territory for crank HP. Not to mention if you put the race exhaust and ECU in it it turns it up to closer to 185-190 rwhp AND drops about 20lbs. I believe in race exhaust trim its around 365 WET (fun fact: that is 10lbs less than an 1125 dry weight lol) now things get really interesting I would say...
Also with weight, at 389 wet and 4.5 gallon tank with ~6lbs per gallon (http://wiki.answers.com/Q/How_much_does_a_gallon_o f_gasoline_weigh) that is ~27lbs. so 416lbs. ready to ride. (w/o race exhaust)
EBR: 416lbs.
Now if you think about it the Duc's wet weight is ~414...but if it is measured the same as EBR's wet weight then we are at and actual ready to ride weight of (414 +27) 441lbs.
Ducati: 441lbs.
Now IF EBR uses RWHP and you factor in about 10-20% loss in power then 175RWHP is actually around 190hp at crank (no i didnt do the math it is 3am, and i just got home from work...im tired and just had a little night cap of Honey Jack and Coke  )
So now the ready to ride numbers and Crank HP look a little more like this:
EBR: 416lbs. and 190hp
Power to weight of: 2.19
Ducati: 441 and 195
Power to weight: 2.26
And if the 175 is at the crank for the EBR then we got:
416lbs and 175hp = 2.38
So there's my take, and I will end my schpeel with this question:
Can the Ducati be pulled off of the showroom take the lights, mirrors, and exhaust off and place in the top 10 in AMA superbike, EVERY TIME IT RACES?
I know this hasnt been confirmed nor tested, as well as the price difference but hey it was yalls idea to do a head to head so it seems fair in my book.
Just Something to Think about...
Jake |
Ridenusa4l
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 06:23 am: |
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and well for fun...
EBR w/ race exhaust (ill guestimate crank hp):
387lbs. and 205hp
Power to weight: 1.89
If that doesnt sound like fun...then you need your head checked
If i did the math right....thats the equivalent of almost 1100hp per ton LOL
Comparison: the fastest car in the world the Bugatti Veyron Super Sport on a good day has about 500-550hp per ton (optimistic numbers, the original has about 450 per ton)
Jake
(Message edited by ridenusa4l on April 21, 2012) |
Crowley
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 07:06 am: |
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To join in the this fantasy world of power and torque figures, my 'old school' longstroke 1198 put out 170rwhp and 99ft/lb on a Dynojet (although I believe dyno figures in isolation are relatively meaningless) I wanted a 1198 because I like tube frame bikes (my X1 is the best bike ever built)
My mate has a Panigale and, back to back, it eats the 1198 he also owns.
Unless rider weight is taken into consideration, real world hp/ton calculations become meaningless too. One reason you don't see too many 180lb fat blokes on the grid
Since a lot of people in the UK buy bikes for recreation, many realise that huge hp doesn't equal more fun. Some of the best times I have on a bike are going out on my T140 Triumph and bating badly ridden Sportbikes with x3 my power. I used to own a FXDX for this sole purpose too, but that old clunker was sold when Wandell The Golfer, started to show his true colours.
That having been said, one day I'll own a 1190 and as Court stated, nothing pleases me more than Erik producing a bike more than capable of holding its own with the big boys. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 01:26 pm: |
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Agreed, specs be damned! Even Panigale owners will be disenchanted within one year (or less). It's easy to get disillusioned with the games manufacturers play, and bikes get better all the time. But do riders?
I'm starting to understand the more lasting appeal of vintage bikes, being more about the rider than the machine. |
Timebandit
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 02:13 pm: |
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Great specs don't necessarily imply that a bike will be fun to own, or that it will make a good mistress.
I'm sure the Duc is a great bike, but I like a bike that I can ride until the tank is empty without having to get off of because I'm in pain. I've test driven a fair number of Ducs, and although they're great bikes, the ergos just don't work for me. I ride with a friend who has an 1198, and he becomes miserable in the blink of an eye. We have to keep stopping because that evil bike's ergos are so bad.
As much as I like to follow racing and compare the specs, I don't spend my life on the track, and I can't live in the real world while straddling a Ducati. For me, the Buells are so much better ergonomically that the Ducs aren't even in the Buell's league. One of the main design objectives where Ducati hasn't yet followed Buell's lead is in rider ergonomics. The Ducati engineers still build the bike for the bike's sake, and put a rider on it, rather than building a bike around the rider. I think Ducati has always been missing the boat in that respect.
Just my $0.02. |
Sticks
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 03:22 pm: |
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Love both. Own one of each brand. No no, I can't afford either flagship, but this is cool. It's ON. |
Crowley
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 03:25 pm: |
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Yep, TB, I have to agree with that. On the 1198, I'm always glad of a fuel stop. On the Helicon, fuel stops are a nuisance. |
Sticks
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 03:25 pm: |
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Well err, no I don't own a EBR just yet. I mean't Buell. |
Pariah
| | Posted on Saturday, April 21, 2012 - 03:33 pm: |
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OK, specs be damned, but I did find this interesting (some figures may be missing):
http://findthebest.motorcycleshows.com/compare/338 -394/2012-Erik-Buell-Racing-1190-RS-vs-2012-Ducati -1199-Panigale |
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