| Author | Message | ||||||
     Timebandit |
Having Trouble finding the right "Red Loctite 272" when you're working on your bike? Consider this: Not all Red Threadlockers are created equal. Don't use the wrong one or you might lose your nuts.  Buell requires Red Loctite 272 for the M32 crankshaft rotor nut. Red Loctite 272 is rated for M25 to M36 bolts @ 450F. The problem is that 272 is only available as a commercial product that's sold in relatively large bottles: 50cc, 250cc, and 1000cc bottles. 272 is pretty hard to find in your brick and mortar store. The 50cc bottles cost $32.90 via mail-order from McMaster-Carr. Here is the TDS:
Red Loctite 271 is more commonly available in the brick and mortar stores. It's marketed in small 0.20 fluid ounce packages for consumers. The problem is that Red Loctite 271 isn't quite as strong as 272. It isn't rated for the M32 rotor nut. It's only rated for bolt sizes up to M25 or 1-inch @ 300F.
What about the PermaTex RED threadlockers? Permatex High Strength Threadlocker Red comes in convenient 6cc, 36cc and 90cc containers, but it's not rated for the job. TDS says it's only good for threads up to 3/4", or M19. It's rated to 300F.
Permatex High Temperature Treadlocker Red comes in handy 6cc, 10cc and 36cc sizes, but it's not right either. TDS says it's good for threads up to 1" or M25. It's rated to 450F.
Permatex Large Diameter Threadlocker Red only comes in the 36cc size, but it's good for threads over 1" or M25 and it's rated to 300F. You should be able to find it for $29.99 at NAPA. http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/27740.pdf Permatex Permanent Strength Treadlocker Red only comes in the 36cc sizes and is only rated for threads up to 1" or M25 and 300F. http://www.permatex.com/documents/tds/Automotive/26240.pdf 3M High-Strength Threadlocker, Red, 08730 comes in a 3/4 oz bottle. It's rated to 300F, but it doesn't specify thread sizes. In the applications guide, it doesn't mention large diameter nuts like rotor nuts. You can find it at NAPA for $10 - $11. http://multimedia.3m.com/mws/mediawebserver?mwsId=66666UuZjcFSLXTtlXTcOXfyEVuQEcuZgVs6EVs6E666666--&fn=08730.pdf It looks like the only RED threadlockers that are suitable for this application are Red Loctite 272 and Permatex Large Diameter Threadlocker Red. Unfortunately, neither of these are available in single-use consumer sizes. It looks like you're going to have to buy either a 50cc bottle of Loctite 272 or a 36cc bottle of Large Diameter Permatex Red to get the right product. Either one will probably cost more than you had hoped because you're forced into buying more than you need for the job. As a word of caution: Avoid the smaller sized tubes of Loctite 272 that you'll find online, and on places like eBay. According to Henkel/Loctite, 272 is not packaged in small consumer tubes/bottles, and it's only available in the industrial applications packaging where the smallest bottle is 50cc. This would suggest that any small size 272 that you'd find on eBay is probably a counterfeit product that shouldn't be trusted with your nuts. The TDS also suggest that using a small tube of 271 for your rotor nut, or the 3M product, wouldn't be a good idea either.  I'd appreciate it if anyone who has expertise in this area could chime in. (Message edited by timebandit on January 18, 2012) | ||||||
| Duphuckincati |
I can only offer that I spoke to a Permatex rep at their consumer number and was told that the high-temp red is the same as 272. Nut and thread size were not mentioned. | ||||||
| Timebandit |
I had a friend who used to work for Loctite as a sales rep on the consumer side. He told me that even though they marketed all those different types of loctites, they only really made 3 versions. I found that hard to believe. I wonder if the guys who sell on the consumer side get dumbed-down tech info: Purple, Blue Red. So you used Permatex Hi Temp Red on your rotor nut? The good news is that it's rated to 450F, just like 272, which is good. They do say it's limited to 1" bolts though. If I had to choose between that extra 1/4" of thread diameter and the higher temp rating, I think I'd go with the higher temp rating. It's hard to know the right answer -- the comparison PDF from locktite doesn't offer the full matrix of technical information. http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/166733_LT4985_Threadlocking_Guide_032010_Web.pdf The catalog at McMaster is helpful for making comparisons about temp limits and curing times, but not nut sizes. http://www.mcmaster.com/#thread-sealants/=fv578f The Loctite Motorcycle Applications Guide seems dumbed-down to Harley applications: http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/LT4460_Motorcycle_Application_Guide.pdf Then there's the transmission applications guide: http://www.henkelna.com/us/content_data/LT4028_AAM_Transmission_Application_Brochure.pdf I have noticed that 266 Red-Orange is described as, "Particularly suitable for heavy duty applications such as bolts used in transmissions, construction equipment or railroad assemblies where resistance to heavy shock, vibration and stress level is required along with exposure to elevated temperatures. Like 272 it's rated to 450F, but if it's got a thread size limitation, that's not clear. The good news is that you can get it in a 10cc bottle from McMaster-Carr.
(Message edited by timebandit on January 18, 2012) | ||||||
| Duphuckincati |
Yes, use the high-temp and used more than the "couple of drops" usually used. Have put a few hundred miles on it since and so far so good so far as I can tell! | ||||||
| Yugi |
You probably forgot that the thread size on the crankshaft is 24mm, so Permatex high temp red will also be fine. |
272