| Author | Message | ||
     Lrholy06 |
So to make a long story really short I had both the low fuel light and engine light staying on, DTC B1005 "ecm lowfuel sys err. pulled the fuel pump to check for chaffed wires and everything looks like its in good condition. Before I put this all back together does anybody know how I would check the connections and make sure that the fuel pump is getting power and sending power? Should the connections just light up with a circuit tester? | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
The problems with the fuel pump and sending unit will be internal... you won't see them from the outside like a chaffed wire. Some one on here may have some values to check resistance and sweep readings but I don't have that info. | ||
| Two_seasons |
IIRC, the low fuel error is caused by the "thermal" (not sure what it's called) sensor that is cool when surrounded by fuel and then gets warm when no fuel around it. Very few BadWebbers that I'm aware of have had this DTC. It is part of the fuel pump and not a separate sensor IIRC, so I believe you'll have to change out the fuel pump to clear the DTC. | ||
| S21125r |
Lrholy06, Two failure modes in play with the low fuel light - it's either a bad cluster or a bad thermister in the fuel pump's sending unit. Might want to PM Zac4Mac (or search his posts...) as he has some ideas to correct the thermister issue with an in line trim pot if you are out of warranty. He also has several post that will walk you through the failure modes to determine what is the root cause. | ||
| Lrholy06 |
Thanks S21125r, I have read lots of Zac4Mac's posts. Ill pm him and see what he thinks. By the way, for anybody wanting to know, I saved my self around $30 on an axle wrench. While trying to get the rear axle off I sheared that little double bolt axle tool (the one thats in the tool bag) right in half. I had to drive down to Rocky Mountain ATV and buy a new one that was like $35. Then when I went to drop the swingarm I couldnt use the new tool that I bought because it is one of those Multi sized ones and it was too long to fit in the recess of the swingarm bolt. So I ran down to the local hardware store and bought two nuts that will fit the axle, and a bolt that will fit the nuts. I torqued it all together and was able to drop the siwng arm with that instead of my 35 dollar hex tool from the ATV store. | ||
| Syonyk |
Did you loosen the pinch bolts first? I can't imagine putting enough torque on that bolt to sheer it in half! If you did loosen the pinch bolts, wow... that's bad. I'd expect thread damage at that point! | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
Also that nut is the same size as the back of a 13/16th spark plug socket, if you put an extesion into the socket from the "wrong end" you can use the hex on the end of the socket to fit into the axle. A socket like this: http://www.tooltopia.com/sk-hand-tool-4426.aspx?ut m_source=googlebase&utm_medium=cse&utm_term=SKT442 6&utm_campaign=googlebase_18u&gclid=COuFtL__lawCFQ RShwodQksBvw | ||
| Clk92vette |
I am glad to read this post. I have been getting the CEL and Low Fuel light on until the bike is thoroughly warmed up. Initially it would stay on for about a mile and then go off a handful of times after start up. In the afternoon, with higher ambients, it would not come on at all. But the last few times I rode her, it would stay on for up to ten miles and come on again in the afternoon. Fortunately I have two weeks of warranty left and am taking her over to Western Reserve next week. I will let you know what they do. | ||
| Lrholy06 |
ya Xtreme6669, that will work on the rear axle but not to drop the swingarm. | ||
| Xtreme6669 |
Ah, I missed that you were dropping the swing arm... | ||
| Zac4mac |
Rhett Sorry to take so long to get over here. The sensor is a thermistor, a relative of the transistor that changes resistance with temperature. These thermistors will "drift" over time and their resistance range changes. The ECM is expecting to see a range of voltages that result from a resistance range of 800-1400 Ohms. When the thermistor drifts far enough, the ECM is "confused" and sets a LFL DTC. My pump ass'y was replaced to correct that same issue; my sensor was reading 1100-2200 Ohms and setting LFL/CEL at 40 dF. I believe there's a simple, non-invasive(well minimal) way to fix this issue. A 0-2000 Ohm trim-pot( a small adjustable resistor) tied in parallel to the sensor could bring the voltages seen by the ECM back to normal, presto, no more LFL/CEL in Winter... Either by splicing it in or adding small jumpers inside the connector, you save the trauma of pulling the pump ass'y. Since you already have the pump out, there MAY be a possibility of changing the sensor, dunno. I will be pulling mine this winter, my pump is failing. I'm going to try to replace just the pump, sourced thru an auto-parts store. If you have the Electrical Diagnostics Manual, you have the info to do this. If you want, call me this weekend, I'm in the BRAN listing, I live in Colorado. If you aren't aware, the BRAN is a BWB thing and is a list of Buell owners across the world willing to help another Bueller - Buell Riders Assistance Network - and is listed on the main forums page here. Best of luck Zack | ||
| S21125r |
Clk - sounds like your bike may be exhibiting both failure modes. If it comes on with colder ambient temperatures (like 40-50F ish) but goes out after warm up (about a minute after stops flashing cold) then it is most likely the cluster software bug. Looks like you have an 08, and if you haven't changed the cluster yet then most likely that is the cause for that. If it comes on randomly after the bike is already warm then you have the thermister drift issue that Zac mentions above. | ||
| Therealassmikeg |
Since you have already gone thru the trouble of removing the fuel pump you have a couple of options, and should consider one A)check and solder all internal wire connections including the thermistor, Re install fuel pump and monitor results. B) find the thermistor,see if you can get a number off of it, if you can't, the etm gives a resistance range that can surely be matched, call an electrical supply co. such as mouser electric and see if they can supply you with a replacement and solder it in. Re install pump and monitor. It sounds like a lot of work but its getting cold and this is a perfect opportunity for you to contribute here. | ||
| Lrholy06 |
Well I tested the fuel pump and the ohm resistance was at 950. Thats well within the range of operation. I checked all the connections, they all look good. It doesnt really happen randomly. Its on pretty much all the time. Once in a while it would shut off while the bike is warming up but then immediately come back on. After that, it just stays on. The bike is an 08 but the engine and the IC are 09. The pump may be 09 too, I am not sure on that. the 08 p/n ends in pmj and the one I have ends in AMD. As far as the thermistor, all that i can see on it are the letters "HTC". Im going to look around for a little while longer and then if I dont see anything I am going to put it back in. And then I can let the bike down from being supported with tie downs from the rafters from above and a floor jack and a bag of grass seed from below!!! Ill keep an eye on it and see if any thing has changed. Oh ya, and I just put my name in the BRAN. You guys have been so much help that I would like to do something in return. Because we all know that when you pass through Utah, the closest dealer is 6 hours away. (Message edited by lrholy06 on November 04, 2011) | ||
| Two_seasons |
You must sign in to add your contact info to the BRAN list. Sign in like you are changing your profile and then go to the forums. BRAN is up near the top. Scroll all the way to the bottom and give your contact info in the same general format that all the "loose" entries have. Kristi will do the rest when she next updates it. Ride on brother. | ||
| Lrholy06 |
Thanks two_seasons, i had just finished adding it when that posted, Message has been edited. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Every week or two "Ulywife" checks the new requests for addition and editing any changes. i need to let Kristi know to take off the part of me working at High Country, no more inside access to a shop... Essentially, the specs I can think of to look for a replacement - resistance range of 800-1400 Ohms for say, 90 dF down to 40 dF. ability to be immersed in gasoline. resistance linear and inversely proportional to temp(800@90dF and 1400@40dF). Probably a 1/4 watt power rating, maybe an eighth watt. go bigger if unsure than smaller. If you have an electronics shop other than Radio Shack, take the thermistor or a very good photo and see if they can help with a source. I'd check Mouser or Digi-Key, but I haven't looked for parts in many years. Zack | ||
| Kenm123t |
sounds like a standard 1000ohm @ 70 df balco thermister Check with Omega engineering they have everything | ||
| Lrholy06 |
Now I am not so sure it is the thermister. And here's why. The low fuel light would come on as soon as the on board diagnostic check would finish. (sometimes it would stay off until the bike warmed up but then would stay on permanently) What I did notice though is that when I really did get low on fuel the low fuel light would shut off for a split second and then come back on, this would reset the low fuel mileage countdown. So that would be the thermister working correctly, wouldnt it? If that is happening then the problem would be with the IC. The IC would be throwing the light but when I really was low on gas then the thermister would kick in and take over. Anyway, I dont suppose anybody out there has a new IC they want to let me test do they?? | ||
| S21125r |
"sometimes it would stay off until the bike warmed up" My understanding is that is how the 09 clusters are supposed to work. i.e. it doesn't poll the sensor until after it is warmed up otherwise you get the LFL light on at start up that the 08's had. I know you checked the resistance of the thermister, but perhaps that resistance is changing with frame heat soak or something. Maybe just enough to throw it out of range. Seems odd though that it would go off and then on shortly after warm up. Wouldn't think you'd get enough heat soak at that point. Maybe another worthwhile test... Get it up to temp where the light is always on, prop it on a jack stand (or make sure you have a full tank), shut it down and immediately take a resistance reading as soon as you can. I'm at a loss, but worth a try... | ||
| S21125r |
Forgot to mention... if the low fuel light is on (falsely) at start up and it is an 09 cluster then I THINK it's relying on historic data. i.e. it thinks you were low on fuel from the previous run of the engine before shutdown as that is the only data it can go off until the engine has warmed up and the sensor is re-polled. | ||
| Clk92vette |
I just heard from Western Reserve Harley and my bike is getting a new fuel pump. The pump is going to take five days to acquire so I should have it back by the end of next week. Hopefully I won't need chains on my tires to ride her home. Fortunately she is still under warranty. |
