| Author | Message | ||
     Bueller4ever |
The stator comment was a joke. Caliper looks identical in the pics I've seen. How is the frame different? Fuel capacity is the same, right? Engine cases are the same are they not? | ||
| Bueller4ever |
Not sure about the covers you mention either, but it's cool you've failed to name a single major component. No one said it needed to be a major component. Are you capable of having a conversation without the attitude and sarcasm? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
The caliper (i believe) is a one piece unit now, and saves another pound or 2 i believe and has the brake ducts milled in them, im sure there's a little more too it but thats just what i heard if i remember correctly. frame is COMPLETELY new and features adjustable steering head geometry and alot of other tid bits....and the NEW frame holds 4.6 gallons, where as the OLD frame held 5.3 gaurd rail- HAHAHAHAHAHHA thats gotta be the best way to put it ive ever heard! Jake | ||
| Blake |
>>> Caliper looks identical in the pics I've seen. It isn't. It's not one piece though either. How is the frame different? The shape and location of mounting bosses, plus as alread noted, different size fuel reservoir. >>> Fuel capacity is the same, right? No. >>> Engine cases are the same are they not? No. >>> No one said it needed to be a major component. If you are trying to support the notion that the 1190RS is a modified 1125R then you would need to show that it shares most major components with the 1125R. >>> Are you capable of having a conversation without the attitude and sarcasm? Possibly. But probably not when I am addressing exaggeration to the point of highly misleading assertions. I'm still waiting for someone to produce a list of ten parts that are the same. It can be done, no doubt. My only point is that the claim that a lot of parts are common among the two bikes is inaccurate. My intent is to educate and entertain. Sarcasm is a great tool for that.  | ||
| Hughlysses |
In an effort to make up for my off-topic posts, I will endeavor to answer the original question. Yes, I think success for the 1190RS in racing is likely improve the value of ALL Buell motorcycles, no matter how far removed the 1190RS is in design and execution from the 1125R (or other Buell Motorcycle products for that matter). | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
As are smiles....  | ||
| 46champ |
I have found that sarcasm rarely comes across as it was intended in the written word. Sarcasm usually needs face to face contact to be understood by the other entity. | ||
| Court |
And varies greatly with both the skill, intellect and attitude of the reader as well as the writer. | ||
| Jacob83z28 |
How are the cases not the same if they take an 1125 engine from Rotax and make them into 1190s? Sounds like a hot rodded 1125 to me. Just like if I made my 1200 into a 1250, same cases. No one said anything about different gear ratios so I would think the tranny is the same. What about the cam chains, chain guides, water pump, oil filter? | ||
| Boltrider |
Jacob, I can only guess on the case thing but when they say "not the same," what they may mean is not identical. The cases may look the same but have internal differences such as a special oil jet or different/increased stress bracing. I could be waaay off, just guessing as this is the internet. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I was also the impression that they (ExBxR) got 1125s from Rotax and then bored them out, is this not correct? If so, what are they changing to the cases at ExBxR? | ||
| Tpoppa |
http://www.motorcyclistonline.com/firstrides/122_1 109_2012_erik_buell_racing_1190rs/index.html Starting with brand-new, 1125cc Helicon engines purchased directly from Rotax in Austria, Erik Buell Racing builds competition-ready powerplants using the same aftermarket components as May's racebike. Cylinders are bored 3mm and filled with high-compression forged pistons worked by forged rods and a lightened crank to reduce reciprocating weight. Heads are reflowed and fitted with bigger valves and racing cams. The airbox, now twice as big as before, incorporates showerhead-type secondary injectors to improve sustained high-rpm fueling. The end result is a claimed 160 rear-wheel horsepower in EPA-legal street tune-approximately a 35-bhp increase over a stock 1125R. | ||
| Doerman |
Sarcasm is from the greek language and means: "Cutting the flesh" Many a fine folks in this day and age have become adept at sarcasm. I for one do not engage in sarcasm, since its original meaning is to hurt - cutting of the flesh. I'd rather carry my arguments on whatever merits I can muster. | ||
| Sportster_mann |
All I want to know is when are the parts and service manuals going to be available !  | ||
| Court |
>>>All I want to know is when are the parts and service manuals going to be available ! Look for some better and more innovative ways of doing business . . . . I'm not sure exactly what's coming . . . but I've got a feeling it's going to be neat. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"All I want to know is when are the parts and service manuals going to be available ! " Is youre 1190 broken already?! That doesnt speak well for the new company......  | ||
| Tpoppa |
If there weren't a significant number of parts shared between the 1125 and 1190 motor, then why do they start the build with a complete 1125 motor? Wouldn't it be simpler/faster/cheaper to start with empty engine cases and a box of 1190 parts? I'm sure there's a reason they start with a complete 1125 motor. | ||
| Sprintst |
hmm, sure sounds like my engine. As I recall, my 1125R's engine was also called a Helicon ............. Sure seems like *some* parts would be the same......... Would be expensive for Erik Buell Racing to change out everything with different parts. Oil filters, pump, spark plugs, etc..... i{Starting with brand-new, 1125cc Helicon engines purchased directly from Rotax in Austria,}} | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Blake ">>> Engine cases are the same are they not? No. " Since youre SO enlightened on the 1190 bike - please tell us what the difference is between the cases of 1125 and 1190 | ||
| Court |
>>>I'm sure there's a reason they start with a complete 1125 motor. Sure . . .it's what's available and it's what works. I'd not be surprised to see a new and interesting motor . . . perhaps even built in the USA. That's the nice thing about a "clean sheet". The 1125 Helicon and the 1190 certainly share similar lineage. So too does my next door neighbors Cayenne GTS Turbo with the base model . . even though his motor, and associated goodies, added $65,000 to the cost of his truck. By the way . . the Mercedes-Benz SLS shares similar architecture to the SL . . for a premium of $80,000 | ||
| Tpoppa |
>>>I'm sure there's a reason they start with a complete 1125 motor. Sure . . .it's what's available and it's what works. Empty engine cases are also available and they usually cost less than a complete motor. | ||
| 46champ |
Are the 1125 engines they start with to covert to 1190's left over from the factory shut down and were left on the dock in Austria? If so then Erik has truly come full circle with the rebirth of his own company. | ||
| Reepicheep |
There are exactly 100 (well, maybe 110 after testing and racing) 1190RS bikes being made. And Rotax is already tooled for the Helicon (and likely had that many motors sitting on a shelf somewhere after Harley's sudden shutdown stunt). So Erik Buell Racing's approach makes perfect sense. I can hardly wait to see what the motor for an Erik Buell Racing "for the masses" bike will be! I'm sure Harleys "help" for Buell didn't end where the motor started... | ||
| Crackhead |
">>>I'm sure there's a reason they start with a complete 1125 motor. Sure . . .it's what's available and it's what works. Empty engine cases are also available and they usually cost less than a complete motor." Ah arm chair cost analysis. From my experience with big companies, it is usually cheaper to buy an entire assembly then to buy 1/2 of the parts that make up the assembly. You have to think inventory control for a major company. It is easier to track and sell and ship 1 then it is to do the same for 50 items. Plus E B R can also make money selling the take of new parts form the motors. | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
Blake, I'd honestly like to hear your response to T Poppa. I know about the 1190 only what I read on this forum, and most of that comes from you and Court. So, I assume what the two of you post is accurate over conflicting information from other sources. It appears, however, that T Poppa has a great point. If Erik Buell Racing starts with the same engine as the 1125 (which I think we can agree is a pretty damn key component), how in the world can we say that the two don't share key components? Is the modification to the engine that occurs within Erik Buell Racing facilities that drastic? What do they do to it? - J | ||
| Fast1075 |
The TYPE of changes are little different from changes made to most engines in the case where a production streetbike engine is modified for racing. What matters is the COST to make those changes on a limited production run of custom modified engines. Many of the parts are unique, being made for this specific purpose, some parts are modified, but all are carefully fitted and set up. Having some small experience building engines, the killer is the amount of detail and the required labor to achieve it. Court alludes to forthcoming changes....and the possibility of an "American" engine....makes you go Hmmmmmm!...(wondering to myself....what American company has the ability to produce high quality castings and forgings??? Maybe they are "all wet" if you get my drift) Maybe the same people that did all the casting production for a certain series of Corvette?? (hence my "all wet" theory). Reminds me of a story i'll share with you one day . | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Fast, are you referring to Mercury marine building ZR1's for the Vette? When Chevy wanted a great engine building company thats who they chose. It would be a good choice for an American made engine and Merc is highly talented with V-4's.....WOW! Is there a highly remote possibility of a new engine in Buells future? And that would not be "all wet" as Erik, I believe started with a V-4 two stroke to go racing with. Baby steps first though in the 100 year plan. | ||
| Honolulu_blue_esq |
Fast, I see your point. Looks like there are two groups of folks who think the 1190's good performance could increase the value of the 1125. Group 1 thinks it will happen because of the connection the general public will make between the 1190 and the 1125(warranted or not). The problem is that the general public isn't going to know whether the 1190 does well Only those who follow superbike racing will know. Of those, only some will be part of the market for a superbike, and only some of those will consider anything other than a Kaw, Suzuki, etc. Of THOSE folks, only some will buy without researching and/or changing their minds about the relationship of BMC and EMR. Thus, a very very small percentage of folks might put a premium on the 1125 because of the 1190's performance, but I don't think the number will be significant enough to bump the market. Group 2 thinks it will happen because folks who are looking to build a race bike will buy an 1125 to modify it to be as close as possible to an 1190 as they can afford. Obviously, this group only exists to the extent that one can modify an 1125 to perform at least close to the 1190 for less money than it would take to buy an 1190 (or if the 1190 market exceeds the supply, I suppose). We've gotten way off topic here as the discussion has turned to HOW MANY PARTS are the same. That doesn't matter. What matters, as Fast points out, is HOW MUCH THE DIFFERENCE COSTS TO REPLICATE. Given that I don't know anyone at least puts themselves out there as knowing more about the 1190 that Blake/Court, I'll defer to their opinion that it would be cost prohibitive and maybe even impossible to pull of such a replication. So anyway, I'm in the camp that the 1190's performance - good or bad - won't result in a significant difference in the market value of 1125s. I think I did that without any skin cutting or name calling. I'm kind of proud of myself right now. (Message edited by honolulu_blue_esq on July 13, 2011) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'd say if you have an 1125, or just about any other motorcycle, that you bought it to ride it, and your value added plan should be to ride it as much as possible before you get bored with it or wear it out. The best thing you can say about Motorcycles is that they bleed money slower than boats. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
bob "Is there a highly remote possibility of a new engine in Buells future? And that would not be "all wet" as Erik, I believe started with a V-4 two stroke to go racing with. Baby steps first though in the 100 year plan." Close, square 4 If I recall correctly |
