| Author | Message | ||
     Cowboytutt |
This one is dedicated to Curve-Carver. I was surfing my usual motorcycle websites and came across Motorycle USA's article on their 2011 Smackdown-Street Comparison. I was looking at their dyno curves for HP and TQ and then compared it to my own dyno curve done at JTS Performance. It occured to me that my 1125CR with its Barker, K&N, Erik Buell Racing ECM and Twin 'stacks for 141 HP standard compares very favorably to the current crop of hyper bikes??? Take a look. I'm down about 10 HP compared to the Big Duc, down 12-15 from most of the Jap machines except for the new Kawalski and BMW RRRrrr which admittedly spank my Buell with 20-40 more HP. What's really cool though is the 1125 TQ curve compared to the hyperbikes (Big Red Duc included). My Buell TQ curve need make no apologies to any of those bikes. Only the KaTooM has anything like it. Check it out:   and my curve:  I would say that an 1125CR or R can can still be pretty competative if you ask me!!! -Tutt | ||
| Mountainstorm |
I love Buells and I love my Buell. But no matter how you slice it Buells have been slower, and have had less power than the Asian competition. All the graphs do is rub it in. Most 600CC bikes will out run my r. I still love my bike and have no complaints...but it is what it is. Now maybe that lack of power will be made up for by longevity or reliability...but there's no real way around the fact that Buells are slower and less powerful than most bikes marketed to this niche. I'm okay with that. | ||
| Avalaugh |
I agree, but in reality it takes a special kind of racer to compete on the 1125. Mine is very similar to your power/torque  | ||
| Avalaugh |
Mountain storm you just popped your post whilst I was typing, I agree with the fact that they are not very competitive, but I'm not convinced it's the bikes fault, it's just very different, and not what most racers are used to working with. Has there ever been a Aprillia RSVR compete in a serious championship ? Or the RC8 ? If so how'd it fair against the big 4 ? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Ava - I think Aprillia won WSB championship last year. Thing to keep in mind when looking at HP numbers etc, thats not all there is to a fast bike. Plus the 1125 was unchanged, pretty much, all three years of being around. Its a 2008 bike VS 2011 bikes, especially when the Big 4 are changing there bikes almost every year to stay on the cutting edge. Suspension has changed since then (most come with BPF up front now) Weight is a factor (dont know weights of the bikes above) etc etc etc | ||
| Jules |
Thing to keep in mind when looking at HP numbers etc, thats not all there is to a fast bike. That's very true. And besides, apart from "bragging rights" it's all fairly academic anyway. Aside from the Aprilia and the Duke I doubt many of the others would feel as "involved" to ride. Certainly the IL4s won't have the same "fun factor" until you're really pushing them... Which is fine on the track but not so good on the street. I swap back and forth between my IL4 Jap bike and the Buell and the Buell is actually a LOT harder to ride... which (for me at least) makes it a lot more rewarding... The IL4 is a bit quicker but the Buell is waaay cooler  (IMHO) | ||
| Stirz007 |
Add this little nugget to the pile....  | ||
| Jdugger |
You can get 150 to the rear wheel with the right exhaust, map, fuel and decked heads. That's what you are looking at with the DSB-spec bike, which is otherwise a stock motor. We are comparing stock to non-stock, of course, but the 1125r motor in OEM/Street trim has a lot of upside for power in it. | ||
| Dannybuell |
The back and forth on a V-twin v.s. IL4 discussion is apples and oranges. There are differences between these designs, there will always be. The Buell's have flatter torque curves. There are less surprises with a flatter torque curve. I don't like surprises. The biggest surprise I ever had was when I was about 18. I just had to go test ride a kawasaki 500 triple. The triple's reputation had spread they also had a 750 triple that year. Nothing no torque at all and then WHAM! Scared me. I was used to the nice flat torque curve of my 69 cb450. Another twin and V-twins ever since. For street riding a nice flat curve is where I want it. Out of the bunch the KTMRC8R sure has a nice torque curve, no big spikes or anything! The Ducati looks likes like its low to mid range could be tuned better. viva la difference. | ||
| Cowboytutt |
"I swap back and forth between my IL4 Jap bike and the Buell and the Buell is actually a LOT harder to ride... which (for me at least) makes it a lot more rewarding... The IL4 is a bit quicker but the Buell is waaay cooler : ) (IMHO)" Jules, can you expound on why the Buell is harder to ride than your Jap bike? I've been wondering the same thing. My CR does require more work to go fast it seems. -Tutt | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
try riding with all your friends that have cruisers, it seems a lot harder to ride slow with them then anything else.just barely crack the throttle and wait.... and wait... and wait  | ||
| Mountainstorm |
Now that I can agree on. Maybe I ride alone because I ride a Buell. I'm not into the Squid scene and I cannot stand going slow in the curves. The Cruisers I have ridden with are exactly the opposite. Speed up on every straight and slow down for every curve. Yawn. | ||
| Rogue_biker |
Most 600CC bikes will out run my r. How is that possible? Only if you have an XB. (Message edited by rogue_biker on May 09, 2011) | ||
| Duphuckincati |
Here's my Buell's best number-$5300.00 out-the-door! | ||
| Jules |
Jules, can you expound on why the Buell is harder to ride than your Jap bike? I've been wondering the same thing. My CR does require more work to go fast it seems. For me it's to do witht he trade off between initial turn in and corner stability... The buell is harder to get into the turn (by that I mean it requires more rider input - you have to be comitted to the turn) but once on its side it is rock solid. My Jap bikes just "fall" in to the curve but don't track anywhere near as accurately, they'll run wider and feel "vague" in the corner... not so the Buell.. On a track, it's obvious the Buell out handles the Jap bikes I have, but at the cost of the level of comitment and rider input required...and the concentration needed. It's NOT a negative, it's part of the attraction, and one of the reasons why Buells are so engaging to ride, but for me it seems that i have to be ready to "give" more of myself to the bike to get more back. If I'm feeling lazy, I take the jap bike, it's more forgiving than the Buell. If I want to have the most fun, I pick the Buell every time. I always think that I have to "flick" the Buell over traffic islands, whereas I can "flop" the Jap bikes, it doesn't look as impressive, it isn't as accurate but hey, I still end up coming out of the corner the right way up LOL. My 996 was the same, "heavy" to turn in initially but once on its side i felt like i could get up and walk around the bike and it'd still track perfectly. You can "place" the Buell perfectly and know precisely where it'll exit a corner, but you have to be "positive" with your control input to get the best out of it. Sometimes it's tiring to ride at over 8/10ths everywhere...when I feel like that i take a lazier bike out.. | ||
| Jules |
try riding with all your friends that have cruisers, it seems a lot harder to ride slow with them then anything else.just barely crack the throttle and wait.... and wait... and wait And then massage your wrists, feel the burn in your shoulders...or spend the time working on your core muscles... I know exactly what you mean... I normally just say "I'll see you at the other end of the ride" and b*gger off on my own. We normally arrive at roughly the same time anyway as i have to stop for fuel more often | ||
| Freight_dog |
I agree with Rogue. The 1125 is more comparable to a GSXR750 than a 600. They would likely brake later and carry more corner speed due to less weight, but a stock 1125 will eat a stock 600 supersport on the straights. If they are faster than you, it is probably the rider. | ||
| Sprintst |
I think I discovered your problem - you need new friends try riding with all your friends that have cruisers, (Message edited by sprintst on May 09, 2011) (Message edited by sprintst on May 09, 2011) | ||
| 01_turbowolf |
yeah no kidding its frustrating when the leader of the pack gets beat by a 1 ton under normal accel and gets upset when i pass and meet em at the next stop. all my friends are in the rolling recliner crowd. good thing ive turned my bro-in-law to the dark side. | ||
| Rodrob |
For me it's to do witht he trade off between initial turn in and corner stability... The buell is harder to get into the turn (by that I mean it requires more rider input - you have to be comitted to the turn) but once on its side it is rock solid. My Jap bikes just "fall" in to the curve but don't track anywhere near as accurately, they'll run wider and feel "vague" in the corner... not so the Buell.. I can't imagine riding a bike that turns in quicker than my 1125r. As it is I have to make a conscious effort to not turn in too quickly and end up at an early apex. In fact I am trying to get +1 deg offset steering head bearings to add trail to slow turn in and add high speed turn stability. When my motor was being rebuilt, I raced a fully setup SV650 (GSXR 750 forks, R6 brakes, R1 shock). Everybody told me how much more flickable the bike would be and how much better it would handle and how much more I would like it. NOT!!! It was a pig compared to the 1125 and the ergos were so bad that it took me three day after a weekend of racing to recover. At Willow Springs there are many bikes that can out pull me on the straights. 600s are not among them. But in the corners, I can gain ground on ANY bike on the track, save for the pros riding fully modified F1 bikes. (Message edited by Rodrob on May 09, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> The Buell is harder to get into the turn (by that I mean it requires more rider input - you have to be committed to the turn) but once on its side it is rock solid. If a picture is worth a thousand words, how much is the following video worth in rebuttal to the above? Note the passes shown from 20 seconds through 32 seconds in, especially the one on Hacking at 29 seconds in. Even though Esllick had been showing that move previously, Hacking and his 600cc had nothing in defense of it. Given that, it seems the bike turns incredibly well. Yes, surprisingly you do have to actually work the handlebars in order to steer it. Bigger heavier bike yet out-handled the factory 600's in the tight stuff. Explain. (Message edited by Blake on May 09, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
>>> On a track, it's obvious the Buell out handles the Jap bikes I have, but at the cost of the level of commitment and rider input required...and the concentration needed. Never mind. I think we are talking about two different things. Usually, going faster requires more concentration. Similarly entering a turn faster requires more effort. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Jules - I would bet the turn and in the turn inputs and stability have more to do with suspension setup. Take off a little preload on you Buell and I'll bet it turns in quicker and feels a bit more vague in the turn! | ||
| Cataract2 |
Guys, I think some might be getting a bit bent over an opinion. I too think the 1125 turns in a bit slowly compared to my XB, but the 1125 is so rock solid with the turning and once it's leaned that I find I can go faster because it inspires more confidence. One thing I will say. Maybe what needs to be worked on is when presenting an opinion you word it as such. Don't try to give an opinion that sounds like fact. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Chassis set-up and tire choice has as much to do with handling as the basic design...My XB takes some definate input to get it to turn, but it tracks like it is on rails...try that much input with my 'Tard and you will end up in the weeds long before the apex  | ||
| Kinder |
CR Dyno from Moto...   | ||
| Catalan42 |
Am I the only one who thinks the bumpy torque curve from the Duc is nasty-looking? The blue 1125 torque curve (or Avalaugh's original) look beautifully smooth. That's what I was looking for in the V-twin design. Is the Duc just hopped-up too much to keep it smooth? (I assume) I'm sure the extra power will be handy in a race, but I'm all about smoothness & predictability on the street. I prefer it that way on track days, too! | ||
| Blake |
The Duc is tuned for racing for sure, all top end biased. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Bigger heavier bike yet out-handled the factory 600's in the tight stuff. I don't believe you can make the above statement to be accurate IN GENERAL. Eslick is a very special rider who did very special things with the Buell. | ||
| Catalan42 |
Cycleworld has a review on the new Multistrada with the 11-deg Testastretta 1200 engine that is tuned for the street instead of the track. It looks much nicer than the stock 1098 racy engine, quite a lot like the 1125.  http://www.cycleworld.com/motorcycle_roadtest/single_bike_tests_articles/10q3/ducati_multistrada_1200s_touring_-_single_bike_test |
