| Author | Message | ||
     Drawkward |
Danny: There's nothing radical about what they're doing. It says so in the Quran and the Hadiths. How much do you know about Islam? | ||
| Dannybuell |
Drawkward - I have muslim friends that tell me anything in the Koran can be distorted. I have read the Bible 2x in the last three years. If you want racism, hatred, and intolerance read the old testament. How much do you know about Christianity? There are haters everywhere, this should not come as a surprise to anyone. You don't have to have a divinity degree to recognize the unconditional love that Jesus shared with humanity. | ||
| Crowley |
I've just put some very cheap Mlabel levers on my wifes Duc Monster. They are no where near the quality of the Pazzo/AST levers I have on my own bikes. She wanted them because she has (flatteringly   ) small hands. | ||
| Hootowl |
"she has (flatteringly) small hands"  | ||
| Blake |
Danny, Only one (of islamism and Christianity) is a serious threat to our life and freedom, so trying to morally equate the two is nonsense. It is outrageous and dangerous, seeking to repaint reality, ignore a real threat and denigrate Christianity. >>> Ask the folks in Palestine how they feel about the last 70 years of Judeo-Christian rule... What has that to do with my point? Stop shifting the debate and answer the question. That said, in regards to the Palestinian situation, they have largely been brainwashed by their racist, bigoted, corrupt oppressors, the islamists and their greedy self-interested leaders. Let the son of the Palestinian leader of Hamas tell you about it. Scholarship is nice. It's no substitute for an objective recognition of reality. Does anyone doubt that if the islamists layed down their weapons tomorrow that all of Palestinians would be amazed to find themselves immersed in peace? Israel gave up the West Bank and Gaza and in return were soon met with what? Rocket attacks, raids, and kidnappings. Wise up. The official policy of the government of Israel is peaceful coexistence with a Palestinian state. The official policy of the islamists is the denial of and ultimate destruction of the state of Israel. >>> Marxism is misogynistic? Please explain. Islamism is misogynistic. >>> Why do you call me a radical? Because you are radical. Moral relativism is a bankrupt radical leftist notion. Further you seek to malign Christianity equating Christians to radical islamists. There is no such equivalence today. To pretend so is nonsensical. You seek to paint those with whom you disagree as no different from mass-murdering islamist fascists. That is a very dishonest and intolerant tactic, radical. You are trying to silence those with whom you disagree by demonizing them in contradiction to reality, the facts of the day; again that is radical behavior. Then you turn around and claim to be tolerant of all? I don't buy it, at all. >>> I am not preaching anything but tolerance, temperance, and acceptance. Nonsense, you seek to paint one side dishonestly in order to try to defend the other. Only one is a murderous cult of fascists seeking to impose their dark-aged view upon all. >>> Offering a contrasting viewpoint that's all. A dishonest view may be contrasting, but it is still dishonest. Concerning marxism, naziism, islamism, and Christianity: Which are bent towards totalitarianism? Which intentionally perpetrate mass-murder of civilians? Which seek to establish brutally oppressive governments and the exclusion of all other religions? Which is brutally misogynistic oppressing women, treating them as mere property and denying them equal rights, forcing them to be covered in public except for their eyes? The marxist worship of state is not deistic, but it is indeed religious in the true sense of the word, a doctrine to rule and guide all. Without a religious fervor of belief in marxist doctrine, those implementing and enforcing it would have no cause to do so. They'd just live and let live. But they perceive a higher calling for the benefit of all. Sound familiar?  | ||
| Blake |
Danny, >>> I have muslim friends that tell me anything in the Koran can be distorted. That is likely true. Suggest you read it for yourself and use well-accepted islamic explanations for its meaning keeping in mind that islamists revere the koran as the word of their god. It is one book written as dictated by one man and covering a relatively short span of history. The Bible was written by a host of men over millenia. Christians revere all the books of the bible as inspired by God, not written by God or dictated by God. If someone were to flush a Bible down a toilet, let alone merely claim (falsely) that a Bible was flushed down a toilet, I might be disappointed, but I'd not be rioting and killing over it. If someone depicts Jesus, no matter how unflatteringly, I may be disappointed and saddened. I don't riot and call for their death. If someone chooses to reject my faith and take up their own or none at all, I might be disappointed, but I don't assert that they must be assassinated and state so to all my fellow Christians the world over. Lots of violence in the Bible, some even at the direction of God, much is directed against his own chosen people, the Israelites. You read the bible. Did you figure that out? Care to explain? You mention the old testament. What about the new testament? What does that mean to Christianity? What did Jesus teach? How did he change what was customary and required per the old testament? You read it twice? You ought to know. Please explain. >>> I have muslim friends that tell me anything in the Koran can be distorted. Do you simply accept what they say? But not Christians? Interesting. | ||
| Blake |
"There's nothing radical about what they're doing. It says so in the Quran and the Hadiths." Truth! I would add that they are doing no different than islamists have been doing for 1400 years. Just 96 years ago, the Ottoman islamists were perpetrating genocide upon Armenian Christians. More than a million done away with. It is happening today all over the world. Wake up. | ||
| Drawkward |
Danny:
So you have Muslim friends...but have YOU read the Quran and the Hadiths? Because I have. It is hard to distory "Smite the unbelievers about their necks" and "Declare war upon those to whome the Scriptures were revealed but believe in God nor the Last Day, and who do not forbid that which God and His Apostles have forbidden, and who refuse to acknowledge the true religion until they pay the poll-tax (jizya) without reservation and are totally subjugated. The Jews claim that Ezra is a son of God, and the Christians say, "The Messiah is a son of God." Those are their claims that do indeed resemble the sayings of the infidels of old. May God do battle with them." amongst many others in the Quran which don't include any of the Hadiths which can abrogate that which is in the Quran. Mohammed himself was a terrorist against the Meccans who didn't agree with him. I know that Jesus was the New Covenant and that the Old Testament isn't as relative after his coming and death. It's also largely a historical text. I've studied both the history of the Old and New Testament along with the early Christians, Bible parallels and the New Testament as a historical document in the eyes of an Atheist and have continued my study even after college. Been at it for 7 years now and have been studying Islam and its effect on the world for the past 7 years also (including its history, the Quran, Hadiths and theological writings). Just because Jesus said to love everyone equally, he didn't say to turn a blind eye to evil. Remember...trade your cloak for a sword. This is about self defense and knowing your enemy. If you think Islam is all about peace, and not about submission (which is what Islam in deed means) then you are horribly misled. Study for yourself. The Quran instructs Muslims to lie to the unbelievers in the name of Islam. Be wary regardless of how many "friends" you have that are Muslims. (Message edited by drawkward on February 08, 2011) | ||
| Pmjolly |
Blake, when are we going pig hunting? That really was me in that picture, by the way. | ||
| Slaughter |
You're ALL going to HELL. Yep. | ||
| Blake |
PMJ, Don't talk that way about my friend Steve Slaughter!  Seriously though. Hey, just let me know when! Have gun, will shoot.  | ||
| Blake |
No night sites though. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Drawkward - Which version of the Koran have you used? I hear there is a big difference in translations. Discounting the Old Testament? Starting at Matthew? Out of respect to my fundamentalist roots I started at Matthew to Revelations and then read Genesis up to Matthew. | ||
| Ponti1 |
Just saw the number of posts here and came to see what is so great about levers from Hong Kong. I should have known this was either religion or politics or oil. | ||
| Drawkward |
Danny: I use three or four different translations for that very reason. I can't (unfortunately) read Arabic, though I would certainly love to. However, the different translations all add up to the same belief system. Those who would have you believe that a translation could have that much of an effect on "Smite the unbelievers where you see them". I read the Gospels starting from Mark, with Mark having the MOST weight out of all of them, and John having the least...if any. Never discount the Old Testament, but it is no long (if you are a Christian) the rules we are to live by. Understanding the history of Mohammed/Islam, the ideals of Islam and the true history of the Middle East is an incredibly important part of all of this and I urge anyone wanting to learn more about it all to read, read, read. | ||
| Dannybuell |
No person in their right mind would argue that radicalized muslims are not a clear threat to all civil societies. Suicide bombers in all parts of the world. Civics from the old testament wasn't so great either... Abraham and Sarah... can someone tell me what a 21st century street/slang terms would be for Abraham and Sarah? This goes on and on... Like it or not a large part of the Bible is the Old Testament. New speak 101??? Turkey=Ottoman. Here is another one, Iran=Persia. | ||
| Drawkward |
Danny: Again you use the term radical. These bombers and jihadis are not radical. If anything they're just militant. The views they hold are the same as Mohammed and those that are in the Quran and Hadiths. I'm unsure why you keep falling back on the Old Testament. I know it's a soft pillow to fall on in a debate, but we both know in the grand scheme of Christendom, most of it is just historical and irrelevant. Christians are very different from Abraham and Isaac. EDIT: Let me clarify my "irrelevant" statement. The OT is certainly NOT irrelevant. Iguess what I mean is that the OT, from a moral/codified standpoint is no longer the set of rules/oblligations that Christians should use. It is still very much the history of God's people, but Jesus brought in a new covenant and a new law (if you believe the NT). (Message edited by drawkward on February 09, 2011) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Semantics! Anyone willingly committing suicide to kill others seems like a pretty radical departure from civil society. | ||
| Blake |
Danny, You really ought to read some of the accounts of Arabs who came from the middle east but have spoken out against the islamist culture there. A God Who Hates by Wafa Sultan, a female medical doctor born, raised, educated, and married in Syria, later emigrated to America. Because They Hate by Brigitte Gabriel, a female survivor of the Lebanese civil war (islamist jihad), a journalist born and raised in Lebanon, later emigrated to America.} To add my perspective to what DrAwk stated, none of the historic accounts of battles and such presented in the old testament are "rules" per se; they are historic accounts of events; they also teach if we care to hear it, really listen. If we read it carefully, considering context and the big picture, it's very relevant even today. Was some of the warfare brutal? What warfare isn't? None if it tops the atrocities of WW-II or the muslim perpetrated genocides of the past century. When Jesus came to visit, the Israelis had a homeland. Imagine how a nation of people would react today if they were ALL forced into brutally oppressive slavery, finally after decades and decades managed to escape, then wandered around the desert for 40 years having to fend off all manner of attacking raiders and pillagers in order to survive while they searched for a place to settle. Ya think they might have gotten into a few battles? D'UH! Ya think they might have needed to adopt some very harsh disciplinary rules in order to maintain order, cohesion, so that they might survive? Once they found and established a homeland, things changed, a lot. Read the Torah and learn the context of it's history, VERY interesting! Probably one of the most compelling stories in history. (Message edited by Blake on February 09, 2011) | ||
| Drawkward |
It is NOT semantics. Consider the 1400 year history of Islam and you will see that. Sure, someone willing to kill innocents by blowing themselves up is radical to civil society, but NOT to Islam. It is not radical Islam. We, as Americans, have been fighting Islam since 1786. | ||
| Drawkward |
Blake: Context is lost on a LOT of people, which is why I made it a point to study the history of the land and people of the Middle east before delving deeply into its religion. It is truly important to have everything in the correct context. Many have that problem with the first crusade (and subsequent ones) because they know NOTHING of the true reasons for it...just one of my gripes. Oh ya, I met Brigitte Gabriel at Penn State when she came to speak about her book and her time in Southern Lebanon which is now mainly run over my Muslims, those who are NOT true Lebanese. She was awesome and it was a real honor to meet her (being Lebanese myself). Even got to give her a hug...she's pretty hot in person! | ||
| Blake |
>>> Anyone willingly committing suicide to kill others seems like a pretty radical departure from civil society. You aren't calling them "radical people", you are characterizing them as "radicalized muslims." Would you say that they are fundamentalist muslims acting upon their convictions, obeying what their koran and their islamist leaders instruct them to do as righteous and proper? | ||
| Blake |
Hey Jonathan, that is interesting. I didn't know your heritage is Lebanese. Cool! Parents emigrated here with you or were you born here? Oh yeah, Hong Kong levers suck, don't buy them. | ||
| Tippster |
...and accusing all Muslims of striving daily to lie to or kill infidels is paranoid at best. People are people. Some believe in fairy tales, some don't. Many fall somewhere in between - especially when it comes to Religion (and their Dogma.) | ||
| Dannybuell |
Blake - I see this as a mental health issue where religious leadership is taking advantage of these lost/depressed souls. righteous and proper is once again subject to interpretation. Some religions don't dance others do. what is clean and unclean... Suicide and murder are sins. | ||
| Drawkward |
Great great Grandfather came over through Ellis in 1911. Just found most of the info out recently through EllisIsland.org. Pretty amazing site and it's free...even have the passenger manifest he's on...just crazy stuff. | ||
| Thruster |
I got US-made FP Racing levers, just didn't eat for a couple of days. Couldn't be happier! Here is one independent historian's well-referenced analysis of the Armenian genocide: http://jewishracism.com/Jewish_Genocide_Enlarged.p df http://jewishracism.com/JewishGenocide.htm I don't believe anyone or anything anymore, not the Bible, nor the Koran, TV, Torah, Talmud, Zohar, Kaballah, Baghavad Gita, etc etc etc. The "good parts" are generally nothing more than just some rules about how to be nice, but that doesn't make everything else true. I can be nice without believing things. As for the other things, I prefer to first see some hard evidence (like WTC7 videos), then draw my own conclusions. | ||
| Dannybuell |
Thruster said "I don't believe anyone or anything anymore..." I agree! Nice links too. | ||
| Blake |
Tippster, >>> ...and accusing all Muslims of striving daily to lie to or kill infidels is paranoid at best. I agree. Congratulations for your victory over the ubiquitous straw man. Jonathan, Know any relatives in the old country? Would be cool to visit. Thruster, Congrats on the levers. Don't post hateful racist propaganda here. That is pure nonsense. >>> I don't believe anyone or anything anymore Tough way to live. I don't believe you.  >>> I can be nice without believing things. Really? Define "nice"? For folks like you who don't believe in anything, that can be a tough thing to nail down. Do you hold that you ought to try to treat others as you would like to be treated? Oops, then you do indeed believe in something.  Danny, "Nice links"? The nazis have landed. You should be ashamed. Apparently you didn't note the vile anti-Semitic nature of the propaganda at those links. What a bunch of Jew-hating filth! Unbelievable. It was Jews who orchestrated the nazi holocaust and genocide against Christians in Turkey and concocted the highly respected view of Einstein? LOL! What a bunch of silly Jew-haters' nonsense. There's no pearl there silly man. | ||
| Jgarner99 |
Thruster, Jews were behind the genocide of Armenians? What a steaming load of rubbish. Try studying a bit of REAL history before you... Oh, wait, what was I thinking? It's so much easier to blame everything on the Jews. Ah, yes, and how revealing that Dannybuell would term them "nice links." Two peas in a pod. |
