| Author | Message | ||
     Lastonetherebuys |
while you are at it why don't you suggest that any classic car owner start a class action suit against their respective manufacturer. Face it Buell in essence no longer exists. We own rare bikes and HD saying that for 10 years they will provide replacement parts basically means that they will be able to get them. Nowhere in that statement says anything about what the lead time will be on those parts. I absolutely love my 1125R but in all honesty if i knew that Buell's doors were going to be closed not a year after I bought mine I more than likely would own a Ducati | ||
| Xb9er |
I don't think starting a fiasco would help Erik's cause of building street bikes. I think every buell owner wants to see Erik building street bikes.....even though my bank account says "This is gonna hurt". | ||
| Tpoppa |
I can't speak to class suits. But lack of parts availability directly relates to lemon & warranty laws. HD can't decide to honor warranty claims below the standards under applicable laws. Well, they can if you do nothing about it. If HD is experiencing longer than normal lead times because they just shook up the supply chain, that is one thing. Choosing not to stock replacement parts and ordering small batches when needed is much different. A classic car example is completely different, unless your classic car is still under warranty. | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
My classic car reference different when it comes to warranty, yes. When it comes to parts availability, no. Like I said before besides E B R, Buell basically does not exist. If you look at the 1125 platform alone there were 8938 units made including the RR's thats quite a low number produced, I would call it a rare unit. Just try getting parts for a rare classic car from the OEM manufacturer for a lot of it IF they can get it for you you will be waiting 4-6 weeks or more. The longer we go from when Buell was closed down the harder and harder our parts are going to be to get. As Buell owners we either have to suck it up and deal with the amount of time it takes to get parts in or get into a bike that there is a manufacturer backing behind it. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Won't work. Will piss of HD and probably kill any possibiilty of EB getting any HD intellectual rights to make his streetbikes. Bad idea. | ||
| Ron_luning |
A better example would be a Saturn or Pontiac. A lot of parts are shared with other brands still in existence, so it is easier for GM to continue to supply parts without any delay compared to H-D supplying Buell parts. However, can you imagine the response if a newer Saturn or Pontiac owner was told that their less than 2 year old vehicle would be out of commission for an undefined amount of time due to a parts backorder? Especially if it was on a part that has exhibited high rates of failure... A class action lawsuit is a waste of time in this case. It seems that they are generally schemes thought up by lawyers who then seek out "victims". A better approach may be a small claims court filing for those who have exhausted the resources available to them at the H-D dealership. If my bike was down for more than 2 weeks, I'd be calling H-D every single day, mentioning the possible avenue of a small claim if they don't supply parts in a reasonable timeline. Part of the reason I didn't buy a Moto Guzzi/Aprilia/Ducati/et al was to avoid ridiculously long lead times to get parts. Bottom line of course: f.uck H-D. | ||
| Tpoppa |
A better example would be a Saturn or Pontiac. A lot of parts are shared with other brands still in existence, so it is easier for GM to continue to supply parts without any delay compared to H-D supplying Buell parts. However, can you imagine the response if a newer Saturn or Pontiac owner was told that their less than 2 year old vehicle would be out of commission for an undefined amount of time due to a parts backorder? Especially if it was on a part that has exhibited high rates of failure... Exactly. A very relevant example. | ||
| Rpm4x4 |
Im in the automotive industry and Saturn parts ARE getting harder to get. Just had a customer wait over 2 weeks for an oilpan. | ||
| Lastonetherebuys |
^^^ I am also in the auto industry and we had a saturn come in on trade needed front brake pads and rotors OEM pads we were quoted 3 weeks If you are still on the class action law suit wagon you realy think that HD doesn't have some mighty high priced lawyers on their pay role? (Message edited by lastonetherebuys on June 26, 2010) (Message edited by lastonetherebuys on June 26, 2010) | ||
| Tpoppa |
My 1125 has been down for weeks, in the shop now until the stator is off backorder. In Ohio, 30 days in the shop during the 1st year = a valid claim under the Lemon Law. As much as I like my 1125, you better believe that I'm watching the calendar. Worth mentioning, the dealer is doing a solid job, just not getting much support from HD. | ||
| Froggy |
Like a 2009 Pontiac G8 that was down for about a month for a windshield (broke, vandalism)? No other model in America shares that windshield so it had to be imported from Australia. Given the low volume of G8's there wasn't any aftermarket glass available either. | ||
| Ron_luning |
If a G8 windshield broke at the rate of several per week in the U.S., would the wait be that long? I don't think it would be. | ||
| Rodrob |
Just to be clear, I love my Buell. I ride it daily and race it often. I buy lots of stuff from Erik and have nothing but respect and admiration for the man. This action however, would have nothing to do with Erik or his future bike building potential. It is because Erik is no longer associated with HD that this opportunity presents itself. It would not be about design issues, quality issues or the like. This would strictly be an action against HD to require them to fulfill their obligation to supply critical parts and warranty repair in a timely manner. Some might argue that HD has no such obligation, but I disagree and I think there is a fairly good chance that the court would side with the owners who are paying their loan obligations, but are unable to use the product. As for the "rare" argument, I see that as totally irrelevant, as well as inaccurate. I did not buy a custom made rare vehicle from a backyard builder. I walked into one of the largest motorcycle companies in the world and bought a stock, mass produced model off the showroom floor. The fact that HD made it and parts "rare" after the fact by closing the division, only supports my position, imho. However, as stated I am not a lawyer, so will not press the issue. I do have to admit that I am surprised that a fair number of owners seem to be willing to let HD walk away from their obligations. In closing, let me say that when Erik starts to build street bikes again, I will be one of the first in line, even if they are rare custom bikes, as I am sure that, unlike HD, Erik will find a way to service his customers, as he does now. (Message edited by Rodrob on June 26, 2010) | ||
| Brumbear |
This has nothing to do with the Buell Co. or Erik Buell.This has to do with Harley Davidson and a new motorcycle they sold to customers that is under warranty.This is not a motorcycle that is used and was not sold as is where is so as a customer you have every right to expect prompt parts delivery and good and timely service. IMHO H-D is doing just one more disservice to Buell MC and when they play their customers it is only fair to push back and I will never buy another H-D product anyway so this is a moot point for me. I do however agree that a class action suit would be almost useless at this point. Lemon law and small claims court is your answer IMHO. | ||
| Hellgate |
I gave up and sold my 1125R last week, after waiting for 7 weeks for a Rev C clutch kit. In the span of 18 months it was in the shop for about 7 to 8 months. The HD shop I went to was great, very supportive. They were swimming in 1125s, name a problem they had it in there. They also had one bike that came back under TX lemon law. When I told them I was selling the bike they said the understood. Trust me the dealers are just as frustrated as we are. | ||
| Dktechguy112 |
I get what you mean about the class action not having to do with erik buell. But i have a feeling the papers would spin it off as, "class action against buell". | ||
| Brumbear |
Don't worry about that Mr. Buell is in the drivers seat in a few more months and that would be the last laugh H-D paying for Buell machines long after Buell is being produced by another mannufacter. | ||
| Bishopjb1124 |
http://www.carlemon.com/lemons.html | ||
| Mcballpeen |
As much as I'm disgusted with moco, a class action suit is NOT the way to go. A class action suit is a great way for lawyers to make a lot of money. You've heard the stories, "Millions won in class action suit!". What they didn't tell you is there were millions of plaintiffs too. So while the lawyers got their standard commission, each plaintiff was given a check for 25 cents each. Yeah that sure got money for the effected people! Meanwhile the lawyers are pocketing the lions share of the award. Thanks, but no thanks! | ||
| Mcballpeen |
Some might argue that HD has no such obligation, It says on the website: "They come with a Harley-Davidson, Inc. backed 24-month/unlimited miles limited warranty and a 7 year commitment to supply replacement parts and services." So the moco would have to decide how "limited" the warranty really is...... | ||
| Court |
Neither "Lemon Law" (which not all that many states have for motorcycles, nor "Class Action" are the appropriate legal vehicles to pursue this. Although . . . there MAY be a good way to elicit some attention and gain bargaining power via a properly executed process. I suspect this will become more of an issue going forward as the result of some things that Harley-Davidson has done and failed to do. | ||
| Tpoppa |
Care to elaborate? | ||
| Court |
Not here. I've learned my lesson. I'll be dealing with Harley-Davidson on my own. | ||
| D_adams |
If you read his previous post, then look at was omitted, that might give you a clue. | ||
| Dirty_john |
I have been waiting for over three months for a 2010 rear wheel here in the uk. I have respect for EB but like others if I knew that HD were going to close Buell I would not have bought the Fat Bob in June 09 and would have thought again about buying the 09 1125R in Aug 08, delivered in Nov 08. | ||
| Mr_incognito |
Got a buddy who ordered a couple plastics for his Firebolt 12R after he dropped it, and after 3 months he called the dealership and said he wanted his money back. They kept feeding him some garbage about how theyre "made to order" now and it takes longer.....I honestly dont think they would have ever showed up lol. | ||
| Froggy |
Mr_incognito, they are made to order. I have seen it before the closing where some bodywork took 6 months to get due to being a discontinued color. The manufacturer needs a minimum order before they can fire up the machine, as its too costly just to make one part in one shot. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Froggy i gotta wonder how many pieces they do at a time. injection molded plastic is actually really easy to do. unless the mold is set up for multiple copies of the same part( bigger mold). as far as order mins and what not. i work composites vacuform etc and it's really not that big of a deal to go from one part to another. so i am really having a hard time with the reason(excuse) that's bein passed about here. the manufacturer may have order mins but that most likely has nothing to do with the actual molding process. | ||
| Fast1075 |
The fly in the ointment is how long it takes to set up the molds...We do process refrigeration at three injection molding companies....the techs sometimes spend HOURS setting up the molds...that has to cost some cash. | ||
| Tpoppa |
I think the answer to minimize changeover and setup costs is...stock the parts. |
