| Author | Message | ||
     Adoogie3 |
http://www.mototuneusa.com/break_in_secrets.htm | ||
| Junkyrddog780 |
Im sure he knows far more than the people who screwed my bike together. Kinda looks like a kid I went to college with... | ||
| Ron_luning |
He must be a real genius. I wonder why companies that collectively manufacture MILLIONS of motorcycles and scooters every year haven't heard of this incredible method? If only they knew... | ||
| Froggy |
It works. My 06 Uly was broken in by the book and burned a quart or two between each oil change, my 06 SS was broken in similar to this, and the only oil loss is when I open the drain plug. | ||
| Adoogie3 |
true that froggy my bros burns too a 07 12s | ||
| New12r |
That is how I broke in my 04 Firebolt and it still was the best engine to date. Never consumed oil either. | ||
| Adoogie3 |
same with my r 7k now doesnt burn a drip!! moto man is very right about the cylinder hone and how it breaks the rings in.And for the first couple people that posted after i started this thread .You didnt even have time to even read the article before you put some negative posts up and critisized his article .  | ||
| Dentguy |
From a thread earlier today. Carbonbigfoot said.... I was just thinking we need another break-in thread! Brings out the loonies... Looks like you got it. | ||
| Ron_luning |
I did have time to read the article, and I even looked at his piston museum photos. I'm sure that some people get great results just beating on a brand new engine, whereas others will have something very undesirable happen. I broke in my '99 SV650 by the book and never burned any oil over 11K miles. I broke in my '02 FZ1 by the book and it didn't burn any oil until around 20K miles; it uses around 2/3 of a quart every 3K miles now at 36K miles. I broke the 1125R in by the book (mostly) and I'll let you know if it burns oil. Like I said before, when companies make millions of bikes every year they have a break-in procedure in place for a reason. Maybe there is an increased likelihood of oil consumption, but there is virtually zero chance of engine failure using the manufacturer's method. | ||
| Ccryder |
What he is suggesting is not really "beating" on your engine. It is just method to get certain components to seat as soon as possible. I can't remember the last bike that I did not follow his methods. I still stayed within the recommended rpms/ speed by the MFG. My Honda ST1300 has over 84,000 miles and it's compression and balance b/t cylinders is within 2% of what it was 75,000 miles ago. No oil burning no nothing that says this engine has this many miles in a touch over 4 years. My 1125r runs great and it sure was a hoot accelerating and then coasting down on the TN back roads. I only had one conversation with a TN Trooper. He was curious as to what I was doing. Turns out he is a fellow sportbike rider and had broke in his engines the same way! Later | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Yeah I like the hybrid breakin method of using motoman breakin, but also sticking to the manufacturer prescribed RPM limit. I did that when possible with my 1125r and she doesn't seem to burn one drop of oil. | ||
| Bigschwerm |
Looks like me bringing break in up in my thread did spawn another....nice | ||
| Dentguy |
....and I believe everything Fitz says too. https://www.shamwow.com/ver4/index.asp | ||
| Pariah |
All I can say is, Sham Wow!!! | ||
| Luisemilio25r |
When I test drove an 1125r before buying, I opened it pretty hard on the freeway. I thought the bike I was testing was their "test ride bike". Well when I came back from the test ride, the sales man told me that that was my bike in case I decided to buy it. So I went back to see the mileage on the bike and it said 16. So I pretty much broke it in the Motoman style without even know it! hehe. | ||
| Ccryder |
Yeah I learned pretty quick that grabbing a handful at 3500-4000rpmwill get REAL exciting REAL fast on the 1125. Getting that front end just clawing at the air and launching down the road. That 6500 rpm comes just in time to let go of that handful and coast down with a HUGE SEG!. That is also when I learned that the speedo would count by "10" and could not keep up with the acceleration. Oh what fond memories as I wait for freezing rain and ice tonight! I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING,I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING, I WANT SPRING (should I stop now ;+} can't b-tch too much I rode Thursday and Friday ;+}) Later. | ||
| 1_mike |
I've done basically that same thing (cars and bikes) for over thirty years with great results. My 93,000mi. R1 (Yamaha) still burns VERY little oil between changes at 3500 miles between changes. When I have a car engine block bored and honed...fines stones are always used for their ability to build better power quicker. And yea, this does require a proper break-in procedure. Any he's right, combustion pressure is the only thing that will properly put enough, even pressure on the rings for a good seal. To those of you laughing..must feel good for knowing all there is. Mike | ||
| Gearhead571 |
This is how you properly run in a diesel engine. Full load for 15 minutes on the dyno. Granted they use chrome rings and don't turn 10500rpm. I broke both my harleys in using the hybrid method and they use no oil. Also read a vrod forum on break-in. They recommend beating the snot out of it. Those that did not experienced high oil consumption. Just my .02 on the issue. | ||
| Zac4mac |
My first 700 or so miles were mostly North-South on I-25, to Cheyenne, Wyo and back. 60 to 100 WFO, coast down throttle closed, repeat for 5-10 minutes. Steady/slow speed-change for 5-10 minutes and repeat. Almost all within OEM rev-limits. Loretta has 15.2k and uses no oil. Clutch fluid, well that's another story... Z | ||
| Dentguy |
To those of you laughing..must feel good for knowing all there is. And to those not laughing..must feel good for knowing all there is. Any he's right, combustion pressure is the only thing that will properly put enough, even pressure on the rings for a good seal. Agree, but why isn't the combustion pressure at lower RPM's good enough? From Motoman The Problem With "Easy Break In" ... The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run. Actually the rings will wear down the "peaks" of the roughness based on RPM. Run harder, more RPM = more scrapes of the rings and faster wear. Less RPM and you get the opposite. . There's a very small window of opportunity to get the rings to seal really well ... the first 20 miles !! The rings and "peaks" don't have an egg timer or odometer. They only get worn by scraping. The amount of scrapes is determined by RPM. If the rings aren't forced against the walls soon enough, they'll use up the roughness before they fully seat. Once that happens there is no solution but to re hone the cylinders, install new rings and start over again. If the engine is running, the rings are being forced against the walls (combustion). And they will only use up the roughness depending on how many times they scrape up and down that wall. Less scrapes up and down that wall (lower rpm)= longer break-in and less chance of putting too much heat in the cylinders, too fast. I'm sure many will swear by Motoman's procedure and that fine. I think I'll probably lean towards what the manufacturer tells me. 35 years of riding and it's been OK so far. Just my thoughts. Everyone should do what they are comfortable with. (Message edited by dentguy on January 27, 2009) | ||
| Slypiranna |
THIS method is the only method... MaNUALs are for those that don't get it... Yet. Proven a thousand times over///period. | ||
| Dentguy |
Is that you Motoman? (Message edited by dentguy on January 27, 2009) | ||
| Ron_luning |
Here's a quote from the referenced webpage: "The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to wear. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run." Here's a quote from an abstract of a paper available from the SAE: "A radiotracer method has been developed to measure piston ring and cylinder bore wear rates in spark-ignition (SI) engines. The method has sufficient sensitivity to measure ring and bore wear rates in real time during normal operating conditions. This work reports measurements on the rates of break-in and steady-state wear of piston rings and cylinder bores during a variety of engine operating conditions. Results show that piston ring break-in is minimal and that ring wear rates are constant at steady-state engine operation. The key factor affecting ring wear is engine brake mean effective pressure (BMEP). Ring wear behavior is repeatable for a given engine type and between two different engine designs. Cylinder bore wear is dominated by initial break-in, cold-start wear, and changes in operating conditions. Wear of the cylinder bore during steady-state operating conditions is very low when compared to break-in and changes in conditions. Both piston ring and cylinder bore wear rates as measured by the radiotracer method are reasonable when compared with long-term wear observed in vehicle tests." Notice that the SAE paper (the one that used SCIENCE to draw conclusions instead of anecdotal evidence) contradicts what Motoman said about the crosshatch pattern allowing the rings to wear. The wear of the cylinder walls does occur primarily during break-in, however the wear of the rings is determined by BMEP and is constant over many many hours of operation. Maybe Motoman's method of break-in works, but he sure as hell doesn't know why it works. Ignorance is bliss, especially for those who are adamant in their opinion (concerning almost any topic). | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
Ron, by suggesting that we should support opinions with evidence and facts, you are undermining the very bedrock on which internet forums are built. Shame on you... <grin> Rob | ||
| Chevycummins |
I've got a question, are these cars that come with a synthetic oil in them right from the factory going to have oil burning problems? I know Corvette and some other cars come with synthetic oil. | ||
| Adoogie3 |
good question chevycummins?I know that some engine plants test thier engines.so maybe they break them in a certain way?who knows | ||
| Dentguy |
From Motoman. 3 more words on break- in: NO SYNTHETIC OIL !! Use Valvoline, Halvoline, or similar 10 w 40 Petroleum Car Oil for at least 2 full days of hard racing or 1,500 miles of street riding / driving. After that use your favorite brand of oil. Q: My bike comes with synthetic oil from the factory, what should I do ?? A: I recommend changing the factory installed synthetic oil back to petroleum for the break-in period. I guess all those who bought Harleys with Syn3 in them are screwed. When the factory told them they could put in Syn3 from the first fill up, they were wrong. I may be going out on a limb here, but I'll say the engineers at all the auto and motorcycle manufacturers know a little more than Motoman. If it comes with synthetic from the factory it's going to be fine and they did it for a reason. I know Motoman said he had applied his method to approx. 300 engines when he wrote that, but I think the manufacturers have built a few more. Does anyone think that the manufacturers don't want to tell you the best way to break in your new engine? I guess I shouldn't ask that because obviously some do. The manufacturer put a warranty on it. They don't want your engine to have problems like burning oil or be low on power. That makes unhappy customers come back with warranty issues that cost the manufacturers money. Unhappy customers usually don't buy that product again and they spread the bad word. No manufacturer wants that. It's funny how some people on this site will praise the engineers at Buell for being so great (they are), yet they don't think their break-in procedure is the correct way. I think that's enough from me about this. (Message edited by dentguy on January 28, 2009) | ||
| Texastechx1 |
good question chevycummins?I know that some engine plants test thier engines.so maybe they break them in a certain way?who knows Corvettes have a brief run in period with their engines before they go to the dealer, what they exactly do, i do not know. | ||
| Texastechx1 |
there is a theory behind the "take it easy" break in, something along the lines of 'engineered obsolesance'. with as well made as engines are today, you can break an engine in improperly and it will still last thousands of miles trouble free... but that poor break in will catch up... usually about the time the factory warranty runs out. I don't think buell does that, but i do know of a certain car company that does. the statisitc is that once it craps out more people are likley to buy a new one than fix up the old ones engine. just my twisted .02 | ||
| Bigschwerm |
"If the wrong type of oil is used initially, or the break-in is too easy, rings and cylinders could (read will) glaze and never seal properly. A fresh cylinder wall needs some medium to high engine loading to get the piston rings to seat properly for good compression but make sure you don't lug or overheat the engine. Use high quality, low viscosity oil (Valvoline 30 weight), no synthetics, too slippery. If synthetics are used during initial break in the rings are sure to glaze over. http://www.ntnoa.org/enginebreakin.htm |
