| Author | Message | ||
     Easyrider |
Morning Sly, (-; I learned that getting the pulses right in the exhaust (slip-on), is the way you generate HP. I did some test with some different stuff and it worked out very well. Today I let the welders make some solutions I can test flexibele on the combination headers, exhaust-slipon, to see if it is really worth to change the concept we have right now. I am going to do the testing with the stock ECM only. I want the most HP and Torque with the stock ECM, I always can try to get more with the Race ECM, So I can do that later. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Easy, so did you get the latest reflash? Most everyone here has done so. Your work is encouraging, but until you are testing apples to apples (reflashed bike) it seems like the tests aren't entirely applicable to most 1125r's here. | ||
| Easyrider |
Fresno, Today I pick up later on in the morning My reflash ECM. The thing I like is that I tested it with the worse reflash there is on earth (-; You are right, my hope is it only gets better after the reflash is done, For what I can read, you guys are all happy with the results. The most test are done with the RACE ECM, for racers. it's also important to see what a good strong bike can do, And racers want more fuell on certain areas then road racers will. I think tomorrow I can test the Stock ecm with latest reflash, and I will do all test work with Both ECM's stock and race. I can't wait to see what happens. | ||
| Xb9 |
we can't wait either! Go Easy! | ||
| Jmr1283 |
Great job! very exciting | ||
| Slypiranna |
Super effort Easyrider! While your playing on the dyno with your latest flash...can you do us all a favor and check from time to time... The AFV adjustments via diag mode on the stock dash? There are a few out here playing with the stock system and trying to understand this newest system's abilities. 115+% seems to be where a lot are getting into trouble (08's/and IMO it is injector duty cycle related/at it's limit) and there does seem to be a major difference in this model versus earlier versions of DDFI. For some of us over here in the states...the latest flash has taken over 150 miles of riding in order for the AFV's to update to mods such as this. I am questioning, why? Randomly, we are seeing a very minor few (within very near elevations and climates) with AFV's at or over 15% different. Whether or not any of this will help or not with your work, I'm just throwing it out to you as I cannot understand this large difference on the minority of reflashed 08's posting it. Just see if you can get 200 miles on that dyno!  What am I talking about, you've already done a few thousand or better?! My hat is off to you, Easyrider. You will be the one to break the 150rwhp first, I wager! mm p.s. I'm going out on a limb here and say that you might see around 110% AFV's, given all else is stock and your near sea level...Might take a while tho! (Message edited by slypiranna on November 18, 2008) (Message edited by slypiranna on November 18, 2008) | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Sly, When Easy's muffler reaches the states, will you guys be needing or looking for some very local sponsorship dollars to help cover shipping and/or Dino time? And if so, how much would help or be needed. This this has peaked my interest from the start (not that I'm a somebody or have alot to offer) other than an interest, and that this thing looks like a worth while investment. It's cool to see the process, from concept to market for those that have been watching and would like to help. Seriously, Les | ||
| Eweaver |
Wow! I love reading this promising news. Easy, it sounds like you are using the scientific method, and it is exciting. I can't wait for this to hit the market. Keep it up! | ||
| Slypiranna |
Lecanadysbcglobalnet, With all due respect... This is not my deal. It is Easyrider's and his chosen US distributor. Please direct your communications to them for consideration. | ||
| Easyrider |
Sly, today, I am all day out of the shop. We also have to take the engine out of our other Race 1125 to rebuild it this winter. Thursday will be the first day, I can use the ECM and I hope the stuff I ordered from the welder will be in to try. I directly use the new reflashed ECM. I hope I can sort the AF readings out, because I complete removed the lamda's on the test bike?. | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Lamdas are Os sensors right? Don't we need those too is addition to the re-flash? Also, would we suggest to put some miles on the bike to get it to adjust to its new brain/values? | ||
| Easyrider |
Oke here we go again, I finished my testing, and saturday we are going to produce the first prototype final version. Here are some graphs: Here you see the stock ECM (green), No reflash against the 09 flashed ECM (blue line)  Here you see the 09 flashed (blue line) ecm against the race (red line) ECM:  And here you see, the stock ECM (blue line)and the 09 flash (red line)and the race ECM (green line):  We lost some torque in lower RPM till 3000-3500, but the Exhaust can run in that area with much les petrol (-; (this is what we tested the last days) The full potentiol HP and Torque didn't change. | ||
| Easyrider |
I have to say, that the 09 flash, feels really good on throttle response, only at full throttle the ignition and fuel map on lower RPM is not that good. They also map the gas return map a lot poorer and the bike brakes harder on the engine. | ||
| Xb9 |
"They also map the gas return map a lot poorer and the bike brakes harder on the engine." I take that as the decel region of the fuel maps have less fuel, there by creating more engine braking. Or am I missing something? And your reference to the "09 flash" is really the latest calibration for the '08 ECM? Is that correct? Just to clarify to all, the factory stock mapping is different between the current '08 model year flash and the '09 model year. A lot of minor difference in the fuel maps and a little in the spark maps. I have noticed the increase in engine braking on my '09 seat of the pants, it's noticeable. (Message edited by xb9 on November 20, 2008) | ||
| Easyrider |
XB9, Yes, that's the decel region, your missing nothing (-; Yes, It's the latest calibration for the '08 ECM? It's running poorer at WOT then the first flash. The rear cylinder is running very rich on WOT. The throttle response feels really good, And the bike runs good also (on the dyno) The last days we only tested now on the stock ECM's the first flash and the latest one. I still can get more power out of the Race ECM, will do that when the first exhaust is finished now. Time is killing me whith the combination of customer work and R&D. (Message edited by easyrider on November 20, 2008) | ||
| Xb9 |
Thanks for the clarification Easy! Curious what were the AFV's F&R before and after you had the ECM Flashed? If the Rear AFV was less than 100 pre-flash, would maybe account for the richness now with AFV's 100/100. It's never been able to adjust without the Lambda connected. (Message edited by xb9 on November 20, 2008) | ||
| Redscuell |
What am I missing (I say that a lot)? There appears to be no worthwhile gain; perhaps because the comparison for us ordinary folks s/b between the latest flash with (a) a stock muffler and (b) your muffler. Then a simple person like me might be able to justify the changeover!  Unless the muffler is really for racers and the race ecu, and not suited to the street? | ||
| No_rice |
do you have any of the charts that show what the air/fuel is doing on this thing? with a sniffer or from 02 sensors? id like to see how everything is adapting | ||
| Xb9 |
Easy,PM sent. | ||
| Bigblock |
Hmm, my seat of the pants dyno shows me, with a stock CA bike, I would say the same results on my bike. Better part throttle, and less full throttle power. A bit more engine braking, too. My mpg has gone up about 8mpg, and my Front afv value is 90, the rear is 100, I suppose this may indicate a rich rear, and/or lean front cyl. BUT, I don't fully understand the significance of the afv number on the dash diag mode, so then again it may not... As it stands right now, I would keep the new flash(if I had a choice) for the fuel mileage, but would much rather have the old flash full throttle power, and new flash everything else... | ||
| Duggram |
Think about this, Dris not only develops the can, he develops a map for max HP. Can't wait for mine to come through!!! | ||
| Slypiranna |
hmmm, this latest test is interesting. Thank you Easyrider for posting. We understand your busy and your just trying to keep up with helping us as well. Questions; With the factory lambda (o2 sensors) hooked up and giving feedback, have you recorded AFV's? Any change yet? Approx how many kilometers since the new flash have you logged? PS...do you have time to ride this version for 300 KM and then check before calling this one adapted? mm (Message edited by slypiranna on November 21, 2008) | ||
| Easyrider |
XB9 and Redscuell , I don't have the lamda anymore in the headers. I run the bike without the lamda. I don't have time anymore to connect them and do the tests. What we did is building a exhaust, that uses less fuell in low RPM, which will give less jerkey feeling riding at low rpm. The second thing what we did is taking care that we don't loose torque and HP on higher RPM. And we took care that the exhaust is quit, But still gives a nice rumble, And is NOT too loud. We also developed the exhaust without any refill material. So The exhaust will not run leaner after more miles when the refill material is gone. . What I did on the dyno with the lamda disconnected is looking where it is running poor. The only thing I could find is at full throttle (WOT), from 2000 RPM it's running lean until 3000 RPM. But we think nobody will simulate this on the road. Now comes the part for the testers on the road. From mine point of view, after 700 Dynoruns developing this exhaust, I say, disconnect the lamda Put the exhaust under the bike and start driving. The lamda has 2 connectors It's 10 minutes off work. And also do the same thing with the lamda connected, and tell us on badweb your experiences. Why racers would like to use a race ECM, is because the bike is getting much hotter on the track then on the road, and runs stronger with more fuell. I make a very nice ignition map and fuel map for the Race ECM. So It will always get enough fuel on the complete area, and runss much stronger over the complete RPM range. | ||
| Easyrider |
No rice, I will post them later on this evening, I have to find them first. But have customers all day in the shop for making Fuel maps for there bikes. | ||
| Easyrider |
Sly, I am sorry that I don't have time too do this. It's winter time here, tomorrow we have our first snow. Saturday the bike is going to the welder and stays there until we are finished with the exhaust. I make so many hours to get this thing going. That's the only thing, I have no time for. When The wetter gets better, I would love to connect the lamda back and start driving the 2 ECM's to experience the feeling on the road, and then do the same with the RACE ECM. With the Race ECM I already did this and the sound and feeling where amazing. I hope you guys can do this for us with the stock ECM. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Understood Easyrider... Thank you for all of your efforts. mm | ||
| Xb9 |
A few hypothetical questions for all to think about: If EPA emission regulations did not exist, would we see Lambda sensors and closed loop systems on vehicles? Why did these systems evolve. What is their root purpose? Do we see standard narrow band O2 sensors on race bikes? Maybe closed loop systems would exist without the regs, but if it would have evolved, I think they would be calibrated for around 13.5:1 or 14.0:1 air fuel ratio. That's where you would get the best balance between fuel mileage and power (damn the emissions). So if a person wants to get their vehicle to run better with good power and/or decent fuel economy, why would anyone want to retain the closed loop system that is calibrated for lean running? Doesn't make sense to me. These bikes are fairly easily to remap. Run the bike stock for a few hundred miles first to make sure the AFV's are settled in. Then pull the Lambda's and map away, with the proper equipment and technique of course. You can achieve the same results with the stock ECM as the factory race ECM, just a little more work to get it re-programmed. If we have to submit to EPA testing once a year, we are either screwed or forced to put back to stock for the emissions testing. Until testing is mandated I wouldn't worry about it. Factory stock lean running engines are the norm now with the tight regulations concerning emissions. Go check the other boards. This I see is the only way around getting your investment to run the way you think it should, not how the government wants it to run. Buell's 1125 DDFI-III system is a gift to us because it will run just fine in open loop only (no Lambda feedback). It just eventually throws a couple of 'O2 sensor system'codes and runs merrily on it's way. That was not so with the pre-'08 Xb's. To get the most out of ANY aftermarket exhaust or intake mod, you have to do the mapping.  | ||
| Redscuell |
XB9, I like the way you think ("to run the way you think it should, not how the government wants it to run"), being a Constitutional man myself. Now. About all that OTHER stuff that you said, which I don't understand: in layman's terms, tell us how to get this done so our bikes can run optimally. That is, what kind of local shop can do such mapping; surely not anyone with a dyno?Surely not by mail order? Surely not by me, I can swing a wrench but not programming etc. | ||
| Xb9 |
Redscuell, check out my profile website, although it's not complete and much more info to follow. That should get you started. Find a good tuner with a dyno or get yourself a wideband controller if you want to do it yourself. It's not rocket science. No programming needed. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
Dave, I just signed up over there. I bring no knowledge to the table, but I do have a 2008 1125r that is willing to be a test mule for you. Whatever I can do to help. |
