| Author | Message | ||
     Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Has anyone found a spring loaded belt tensioner for the 25r Les | ||
| Slypiranna |
Why? | ||
| Steeleagle |
I'm smelling CR gearing on an R without changing swingarms. | ||
| Slypiranna |
hmmmmm...... | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Nope... when the rear end is unloaded the tensioner is supooooosed to compensate for that right? But from what I understand the belt just gets really tight under very hard breaking, stopies, or heading into a corner hard while breaking, thus up setting the back end. No grip and tuff on the equipment. Thats all, Les | ||
| Xb9 |
myth | ||
| Sheridan_bueller |
The difference in length through the entire sweep of the swing arm is approximately 0.010". I read that somewhere but can't remember where. Not enough for me to worry about. JJ | ||
| M1combat |
"Nope... when the rear end is unloaded the tensioner is supooooosed to compensate for that right? But from what I understand the belt just gets really tight under very hard breaking, stopies, or heading into a corner hard while breaking, thus up setting the back end. No grip and tuff on the equipment. " Be careful who you listen to. | ||
| Dirty_john |
belt increasing with extended rear suspension was true for XB but is not true I believe for 1125R, check out the gearbox pulley pivot and the location of the swinging arm pivot, ideally these are on the same axis and then there will be no tension variation whatsoever. The original Ducati Pantah had this arrangement. On the XB the gearbox pulley and swinging arm pivot are some distance apart. Waiting for delivery of my 1125R so cannot be certain of the layout. | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Exactly, Thats why I asked the question. I don't have mine at home. But will be at the dealer in the next day or two and check. Thanks for the input. Les | ||
| Jaimec |
Sounds like someone doesn't fully understand the design of the tensioner wheel on the bike... Not going to get into it here because it was beaten TO DEATH over in the XB Forum. | ||
| Xb9 |
beaten to death is an understatement. I think Buell would have spring loaded it if that was the better arrangement or necessary........ | ||
| M1combat |
Keep in mind that the belt engineers (Goodyear) defined what tension the belt should have. They wanted MORE tension... not less. | ||
| Bud |
They wanted MORE tension... not less. true... but when i fitted the latest upgrade belt, i did check the teeth 2x .. i was under the impression i had a wrong type belt, it was freaking tight.. and was very worried about my wheel, swingarm, gearbox bearings the belt has slacken a little in the first 1600 miles, but i have no regrets off fitting a tensioner on my uly back to the 1125 never seen one...yet | ||
| Trojan |
I think Buell would have spring loaded it if that was the better arrangement or necessary........ not necessarily. Our experience and that of our customers who have bought them is that the sprung tensioner is a vast improvement over the stock item on XB's and definitely prolongs belt life as well as gearbox and rear wheel bearings. It also gives the suspension a much easier time. Manufacturers don't always get it right, and they are trying to sell a bike at a price, so if that means fitting a simple inexpensive device instead of something that works better but costs a few dollars more then they will do it. You can see this in most areas of most production machines from pertty much every manufacturer. If this wasn't the case then all bikes would be running around on WSB spec suspension etc and costing a huge amount more than they do now  Unless the swingarm pivot point is 100% concentric with the gearbox pulley centre there will always be some difference in belt/chain tension throughtout suspension movement. BMW have addressed this on their new off road bikes, but no other manufacturer has yet to solve it completely, hence the slack allowed in most chain drives. I haven't looked too closely at the 1125R belt tensioner and swingarm pivot/pulley distance, but I would not dismiss a sprung or 'damped' tensioner too rashly even for this model. | ||
| Dirty_john |
Trojan - couldn't agree with you more and since I work in the engineering industry I should know what I am taking about. A tensioner on an XB is an absolute must and when I get my 1125R I will plot the arc of the rear wheel and have a look at whether this aslo needs a tensioner rather than the pathetic idler pulley as designed on the XB | ||
| Jaimec |
Here we go again.  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
 | ||
| Rfischer |
and again, and again.....fueled by those who have a dog in the hunt. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I won't argue (again) if the tensioner is necessary, it's your money, spend it where you want. But it's nuts to call the factory tensioner wheel pathetic, cheap, or built to a price. The thing is a work of art, and is incredibly stout and well engineered. | ||
| Trojan |
But it's nuts to call the factory tensioner wheel pathetic, cheap, or built to a price. The thing is a work of art, and is incredibly stout and well engineered. Nobody called it cheap, but it is certainly built to a price just like every other component on every motorcycle other than GP bikes. It may also be strong, robust, a work of art and every other superlative you may want to heap upon it, but that does not mean that it is 100% efficient or that it cannot be improved upon. As you say, it is peoples money and they can spend it where they like (Message edited by trojan on November 07, 2008) | ||
| Court |
The EXACT same statement is true of the new PDK transmission in the 2010 Porsche 911 GT2 and the seats in my neighbors new 612 Scag. All are exquisitely built to perform. | ||
| Thunderbox |
XB belts only change length .010 or 10 thousands of an inch in length through the whole movement of the suspension. I have never heard of a belt slipping ever on an XB of any kind. They are as I understand also part of the suspension so putting a spring tensioner on will effect 2 things. The tension on the belt is so minimal when compared to the tension on the belt when you are 2 upping it and excellerating hard that it is a none issue. The rear wheel bearings are not being taken out buy the tension on the belt. If that were the case the output bearings would be fried also and thats not happening. I would bet good money the belt will not last as long on a bike with a spring tensioner than it does without one. When I was in the army we had a word to cover things like this. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't go off thinking I am calling anyone stupid because that is not the case. | ||
| Trojan |
XB belts only change length .010 or 10 thousands of an inch in length through the whole movement of the suspension. I have never heard of a belt slipping ever on an XB of any kind. They are as I understand also part of the suspension so putting a spring tensioner on will effect 2 things. The tension on the belt is so minimal when compared to the tension on the belt when you are 2 upping it and excellerating hard that it is a none issue. The rear wheel bearings are not being taken out buy the tension on the belt. If that were the case the output bearings would be fried also and thats not happening. I would bet good money the belt will not last as long on a bike with a spring tensioner than it does without one. When I was in the army we had a word to cover things like this. KISS Keep It Simple Stupid. Don't go off thinking I am calling anyone stupid because that is not the case. I (and most people who have a lot of contact with Buells) have seen a lot of failed gearbox bearings and rear wheel bearings that I can attribute directly to belt tension and nothing else. I have also seen any number of belts broken by the 'shock' effect, when tension is suddenly increased by sharp sudden suspension movements. More belts break like this than through stone or other foreign object damage. The idea of the sprung tensioner is not to address any belt slipping or belt stretching, but to reduce strain on other components and increase belt life, both of which it achieves far better than the stock Buell item. If a belt only stretches by 10 thou as you say, just think of the extra strain that goes into your bearings and belt when the suspension goes through full movement, because the difference in necessary belt length throughout that movement is a lot more than 10 thou of an inch I can assure you.. If you think that belt tension is designed to be operate as part of the rear suspension then again it is a wrong assumption. The suspension works a lot better once the belt tension is taken out of the equation and the shock can work as intended. The difference in some cases is a marked as the difference between riding a hard tail and a soft tail H-D. If you were ever to ride an XB fitted with a sprung tensioner you would notice the difference immediately, however, it appears to me that most of the detractors of the sprung tensioner have never tried one. We have been selling the sprung tensioners for 6 years and in that time have sold many hundreds. I have only had one broken belt reported to me with the device fitted. This was on a bike that had already covered 10,000 miles prior to fitting the tensioner. In fact this device is now a de riguer fitment for UK Buell owners and is usually the very first modification made by new XB owners over here. As for keeping it simple, have you seen how simple the sprung tensioner actually is? I am not suggesting that the same system should be adopted for the 1125R, but am sugesting that it could be possible and could have the same benefits as already proven on the XB models. | ||
| Easyrider |
Amen Trojan... | ||
| Thunderbox |
I see where you are coming from Trojan. You sell tensioners. I guess the horse is still being beaten. Have a great day. By the way I have had 2 Buells and so far (knock on wood) in about 50000 I have yet to experience a belt or bearing failure. I know they happen but saying they are directly attributed to belt tension is going out on a limb IMHO. Here is some interesting information ref the belt and tension as Buell sees it. Document Type and Number: United States Patent 6866112 Abstract: A motorcycle includes a frame, and an engine and transmission mounted to the frame. A swingarm is pivotably mounted to the frame, and a rear wheel is rotatably mounted to the swingarm. An output shaft of the transmission is coupled to the rear wheel to cause rotation of the rear wheel under power of the engine. A stationary tensioner is mounted to the frame such that as the rear wheel bounces up and down with respect to the frame, the tensioner maintains substantially constant tension and belt path length in the belt without requiring the tensioner to move in a translational or pivotal sense. Assignee: Buell Motorcycle Company (East Troy, WI, US) (Message edited by thunderbox on November 07, 2008) | ||
| Redscuell |
Trojan: "We have been selling the sprung tensioners for 6 years and in that time have sold many hundreds". I don't mind at all that you have a vested interest, because "people do what they are rewarded for" (although wait until my home country (USA) finds out how our new President rewards them for picking a Democrat; I voted Republican!)(I'm a dual citizen in Australia) So my question is: when will you have one available for my 1125R 09 (a tensioner, not a president)!! | ||
| Lecanadysbcglobalnet |
Sounds like someone doesn't fully understand the design of the tensioner wheel on the bike... Sounds like it may not be my lack of understanding, but maybe a question that deserves a real answer. The day I stop asking what seems to be in some peoples mind, a stupid or uninformed question, is the day I quit learning from brilliant minds like Krassh, Teach, and Easy (brilliant piece of equipment by the way). Men that don't just talk, but who create solutions, that benefit us all. And by the way every question I've ever asked here has been answered with a logical answer from those willing to teach, not just condensed. I appreciate you guys, keep it coming, Les | ||
| Endoman33 |
i have worked for a h-d and buell dealership 4 over 7 years. 5 of those years have been in parts last 2 in bike sales. I can't count the number of times h-d parts books would say something would not work. guess what those parts that should not work did. HD and Buell have certain tolerances that must be maintained, fenders spacing from wheels is just one example. tell you what i'm going to take my 1125r this weekend and switch the pulleys to see if they will work or not. As far as the speedo being off don't use it any way use the tach to ride by. | ||
| Bikejunky |
So Here is what I take away from this thread. Be mindfull that my experience with suspension movement vs. drive tension comes from off-road mountain bikes (IMHO much more sensitive than the buell due to size and weight) The "Damped" Tensioner should allow the rear suspension to react more smoothly and with less resistance to road surface irregularities due to the elimination of an INCREASE in tension as the wheel moves through its arc. So Static Tension = More Traction+More Smooth Ride Variable Tension = Less Traction+Choppy Ride So the only variables I see in the "Damped" Pulley that could be a detriment to performance would be how long the spring can deliver optimum tension, and how resistant to twisting the system is, as twisting could cause belt alignment problems. Does anyone have this system installed on their XB, What have you noticed since the installation? Thanks, Hope I got it right! |
