| Author | Message | ||
     Hitman44139 |
What do you all think of the natural motor oil Vs. synthetic? I know there are pros and cons for both but heres my question. Could the reason some of us are having leaks here and there is because of the synth? And thing aren't seating correctly just noticed a leak today. Are we better off starting with regular oil and switching to synthetic after our break in periods?? I know there is a difference in the flow between the two. I assume the synthetic is thinner. Maybe this is an issue? Maybe I think to much or I've been in the sun to long... Just a thought.... And Im curious. if its been discussed......... OOppps  | ||
| Fresnobuell |
Don't they come with Syn3 from the factory? | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
It's been covered everywhere ad nauseam. But since you asked, the short answer is that synthetic oil is far superior to mineral-based oils. Using mineral based oil is fine, as long as you change it regularly between 2-3,000 miles without fail. Synthetic is worth the extra $$ for performance and piece of mind. The myth about synthetic oil causing leaks is true, if you have an engine with higher miles and then switch from mineral to syn. Synthetic oil has better cleaning properties and removes deposits which allow the syn oil to get into worn areas that didn't leak with mineral oil. Synthetic oil does not cause the leak, it just lets you know there was already enough wear for a leak, but the sludge kept the oil in. Many new motorcycles come with synthetic oil from the factory (Triumph and Ducati, maybe others), so it's never too early to start using it. You're gonna hear all sorts of garbage from people trying to scare you away from synthetic oil- none of it is true, just do some research. | ||
| Reepicheep |
No cons to synthetic aside from cost. Non synthetic oil breaks down at a temperature that is much lower then synthetic oil does. For an air cooled motor, running non synthetic is (IMHO) just stupid. Any full synthetic will do. Same thing goes for my Saab turbo, and my Toyota Sienna. Both motors will sludge badly with non synthetic. The Sienna gets WalMart branded full synthetic, as they have it in the right weight. The Saab gets Rotella T full synthetic, as they have it in the right weight. The Buell gets Castrol full synthetic 20w50, because it is in the right weight (though to be honest, I think Castrol is cheating a bit, and their 20w50 is not as heavy as some other 20w50s). | ||
| Fresnobuell |
I would get synthetic designed specifically for motorcycles that share btw motor/tranny/clutch...as some other syns may have friction modifiers that will play havoc with your clutch. For an easy to obtain, quality oil I would recommend Mobil 1 V-Twin. Or you could go with the factory recommended Syn3...I personally use Amsoil, but that can be difficult to obtain. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
+1 on the Amsoil... I use their oil filters too. | ||
| Brent1125russ |
Synthetic oil: Pros: 1. Higher viscosity index helps oil retain design viscosity in temperature and pressure extremes, both low and high. 2. Synthetic oil resists emulsification and doesn't cling to contaminants because the synthesized oil molecules don't have any carbon molecules with free electrons. (hydro-cracked oils, which have hydrogen molecules forced into the carbon chains are also good at resisting emulsification and contamination, but I don't think anybody except Molykote does this, and unfortunately Molykote doesn't make engine oil) 3. Synthetic oil is more stable in shear conditions (typically boundry conditions between substrates like in tranny gears or when the crank counterweights splash into the oil) and thus isn't prone to breakdown as fast. 4. Synthetic oil generally offers a lower coefficient of friction (depending on the base polymers) between substrates than natural hydrocarbon oil. 5. Synthetic oils are much cleaner from the manufacturer. Most hydrocarbon oils are refined to ISO 20/17 standards, whereas most synthetics are closer to ISO 16/13 or ISO 15/12. What does this mean? Well, basically all things considered equal, a journal bearing will last about 3 times longer at 16/13 than it will at 20/17. It will last 4 times longer at 15/12. No snake oils or magic potions, just plain common sense...clean oil extends the life of equipment and the best filters and clean oil to start with are always the best route. If anybody wants detailed information on ISO codes and micron particle counts, PM me. Cons of Synthetic oil: 1. Cost Hydrocarbon based natural oils aren't necessarily bad, if you use a good Beta rated filter (hopefully higher than a Beta 10 which collects 90% of the contaminants) and you change the oil more frequently as the oil turns dark (becomes contaminated) or looses viscosity (due to heat and shear), you will be ok but in the long run, synthetic is the way to go. Don't listen to the snake oil salesmen pitches either on oils, no additive in the world is going to help when a 14 micron chunk of contamination goes through your journal bearings or gear sets. The key is to keep the oil clean, and to keep it's viscosity rating. Also beware of any oils using 'EP' additive packages. Some are molybdenum based, which are fine, but some oils (like Penzoil) use Sulfur for their 'EP' package and sulfur eats up ferrous metals (bronze, copper, etc..) like pac-man eats dots. Also, don't fall for the chlorine in the oil trick where the manufacturer claims, "look, my oil actually clings to the parts because of our magic additive." A lot of companies just put a little bit of chlorine in the oil to give it this effect and while not entirely harmful while running, letting a piece of metal sit with chlorine on it for a couple days will show you what happens inside your engine when it doesn't run for a couple days. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Our oil threads get clearer and clearer each time we hash through them With regards to the "use non synthetic but change more often", I recall a real world test on a NON air cooled Honda motorcycle that showed a high quality non synthetic was already more then half broken down at 2000 miles. I hate to think what an aircooled motorcycle would do to non synthetic in 3500 miles, much less 5000. I change my full synthetic at 3500 mile intervals... knowing full well that it is probably 80% still good. That's the kind of margin I want. If I was in the middle of a road trip or something, I would push it to 5000 miles if necessary, but otherwise want to always have a margin. | ||
| Pxl2562 |
wow brent1125r, well spoken. and you are clearly very well informed. way to be, man! | ||
| Spiderman |
FYI The 1125's DO NOT come with Syn from the factory. | ||
| Brent1125russ |
"wow brent1125r, well spoken. and you are clearly very well informed. way to be, man!" I kind of cheated, I am a Dow Corning/Molykote rep and the company I work for has two tribologists on staff.} | ||
| Zac4mac |
Thanks Spidey, I thought I remembered we determined that back in December when they started shipping. I also recall they leave the Factory with HD 20w50. Early ones often had too much oil in them too. Z | ||
| Easyrider |
I really sometimes like a easy way of thinking. I have a friend who is working at a Japanese bike shop. I called him to ask him what type of oil they use for Rotax engines and what there experience where. He said we always use 10W40. they use castrol. Because they are a big sponsor for there race teams and from a warranty point of few, they now what the engines like. I know that Buell has very good experiences with Motul oil for the race bikes. The problem I think we have is warranty. What happens if you use a different oil (read better for the engine) and have a failure in the engine. What will happen then with the warranty? I decided to use Motul from now. I think the Japanese biker market is much further it experiencing what type of oil to use in High Performance engines. The Warranty is my problem now and I now for sure oil will not be a issue. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I like symthetic for the long-lasting effect. My car had Mobil 1 in it from the factory, and that's all I put in there now. The Buell got switched to Syn3 on its first oil change. I stick to Syn3 in the bike for a couple reasons. One, like Easy outlined, it eliminates the oil issue from any warranty claim that may come up. They can't deny it because you used a different oil, but they may try to give you a hard time. The other reason is it gives me a reason to go into my dealership, spend a little money and BS with everyone - service guys, sales guys, parts guys, etc. It builds a good relationship and makes me feel better about whenever I have to drop my bike off for warranty work. And the parts people are more willing to work a little harder for me tracking something weird down for me, or getting prices for something I probably wouldn't buy anyways. I have a very good dealer that treats me well and does favors for me. When I got my '04 Sportster (all new bike that year), they offered to use my bike for a test mule for a couple different exhausts of my choosing. Free dyno time and 20% off the pipe I decided on or something. When I traded that bike in, they held the Firebolt in storage for me for 4 months, no charge, until my tax return came in and I could pay for it. So yea - I stick to Synthetic, HD brand. | ||
| Doerman |
The difference in price between 3 quarts of synthetic versus mineral is the price of one lunch. Very inexpensive insurance indeed. Syn 3 is a plus since you get to go to the Buell store a shoot the breeze with the boys and girls there. | ||
| Hitman44139 |
I'm sold thanks guys! synthetic it is. Was curious since it came from factory with regular oil. Thanks guys!! | ||
| Hexangler |
Synthetic on my 12r. Changing natural oil every 2000-3000 miles on every air cooled bike i've owned since 1984, it always is dark, black and opaque. I switched to synthetic for the first time on the Buell, and after checking it at 3000 miles, it is only slightly dark and still transparent. Not a scientific test, but I'll never go back to natural oil. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
FYI... As long as the oil you use meets the same requirement as the OEM recommended oil, it is against Federal Law for a manufacturer to deny a warranty claim based upon using non-manufacturer approved oil. It's called the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act (1975) and it's worth doing some research on. Many dealership/service personnel don't even know it exists, and if the customer is unaware of the law you may be taken advantage of. I had a H-D dealer try to pull this crap with me before because I was using Amsoil- I reported them to the Federal Trade Commission... problem was solved. | ||
| Jotrevza |
Yeah Brent1125russ, +1 to whatever the hell you just said! (as long as it works.....) I use Amsoil. Want the technical explanantion why? BECAUSE I CAN!  Rubber down, smiles up! Tracy | ||
| Mustangturbo |
USE MOTUL!!! It's the best!!! |
