| Author | Message | ||
     Alex |
If You are interested in "adjustable" O2 sensors You may visit the Nightrider.com website. The Harley guys are talking a lot about it as they have lean running problems as well. There is an instruction of how to build an signal faking device (althouhg it has its limits). BTW the Harley ECU holds a "Lamda signal offset" table doing basically the same. One can write values from around 400 to 700mV into that table (RPM versus MAP) shifting the accepted switch point of the sensor. Regards Alex | ||
| Deexn1125r |
(Message edited by deexn1125r on July 17, 2008) | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Thanks Xb9, that is what I meant...corrected. | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Great Post XB9! This supports our learnings/findings...mm Also supports what we've been wondering, BMC knowledge of such... ...next (Message edited by slypiranna on July 17, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
I think I hold the record so far for the shortest straw!  | ||
| C4bird |
This is an awesome post! I have been reading it from the beginning. Just messing around the the garage last night, unplugged the O2's and as it was posted before, the bike runs amazingly well below 3K rpm (ran what I though was pretty good before, didn't realize it wasn't). Had to plug them back in before going to the dealer today. Will be eagerly awaiting the solution to this...  | ||
| Slypiranna |
Some owners are reporting improved engine operation/power after the oil jet install/safty recall. I've not done mine yet, just curious of what others have experienced here? | ||
| Zac4mac |
Thanks for the article link David. Too bad they couldn't ride my Loretta in that test. While at Homecoming, I heard rumblings of a new re-flash aimed at the fueling issue from several sources. Not too sure I am interested tho, as Loretta is running VERY well now. Z | ||
| Pariah |
Zack, When are we going to see your pics from Homecoming? The ones with all you 1125R owners running amok, destroying property, attacking police officers, etc.? Takis | ||
| Zac4mac |
When I get off my butt and process them... By the time the work day's over, I'm ready for a beer - not much else.. One more big "to do", I'm getting caught up tho. Soon. Check the "Homecoming" thread in Storm Fronts, lots of pix from others and a couple I've put up. Z | ||
| Ccryder |
M&M: When my recall was done they tightened up that loose nut behind the bars. I feel much better now, can't feel any difference with the 25r though ;+}. Really I did feel a difference but it was mostly due to a fresh oil change with SYn3 done 40 miles before the recall. | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
Looking for thoughts on this. I made up a wire connector that plugs in between the O2 wire connector and the bike harness. I've got a wire that splices into that harness and the other end goes to ground. I put a socket in the ground wire that I can swap out different resistors. I am just creating a controlled short to ground on the O2 sensor that bleeds off some of the voltage. I've got a .980m Ohm resistor in the socket at this time and the O2 volts still switch but seem slightly lower now. The bike seems to run richer with almost no surge. With a 4.5k Ohm resistor it sets a lean code and has little O2 switching, voltage stuck low. Its still not perfect but $10 buys a lot of resistors to play with. I'm watching AFV now to see how it might impact that. I have a hard time getting them to change, might be my driving style (slow and easy) or something with the bike. I ran around in third at 45mph for a while today but last time it took a really long ride to make a change. Does this make sense or is it my imagination that the bike is running better? | ||
| Teach |
Looking for thoughts on this. Before reading this thread, I couldn't even make a comment on this. But, It seems like you are trying to alter the value of the voltage that goes back to the ECM to richen the mixture? I think we only need to change that in the problem RPM range and your change could effect things throughout the rpm range? I am not saying this couldn't work but I am interested in hearing what XP9 and Slypiranna has to say. (My new heroes) | ||
| Teach |
Looking for thoughts on this. Before reading this thread, I couldn't even make a comment on this. But, It seems like you are trying to alter the value of the voltage that goes back to the ECM to richen the mixture? I think we only need to change that in the problem RPM range and your change could effect things throughout the rpm range? I am not saying this couldn't work but I am interested in hearing what XP9 and Slypiranna has to say. (My new heroes) | ||
| Chevycummins |
Thats what I'm doing and I would rather have it a little rich than way lean. I like riding the bike and am running out of dramamine pills. Also I thought the ecm goes to open loop at higher rpm so it won't effect the higher rpm fueling. I just want to get buy for a while until there is a program out that will correct it properly. | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
o2 mods...good idea and I am interested in what anyone might learn and share from this...as it WILL help in the end of understanding. If done within range of what the ecu has limits for (altered/simulated o2 feedback), AFV's should enrichen the entire fuel maps in OPEN LOOP...which is NOT needed other than in our very small herky jerky zone. The actual amount of enrichment that would still be within range of a narrow band's accuracy level seems insufficient if you look at the 11's fuel map cell values per OPEN LOOP measured A/F-and adjacent cell values. Thanks to Dave & Gunter for that info! Then look at the wideband option, which does offer the range to make up the difference...yes, could be made to work but it would ONLY be useful to do so for CLOSED LOOP and in THAT minor load region...as AFV's SHOULD then really make everywhere else in OPEN LOOP, too fat. We know that the actual A/F target is much leaner than 14.7:1. We think that there is something within the ecu's "mind" that somehow manages to alter the pulsewidth leaner (in CLOSED LOOP) than what it is seeing as feedback cross counts of the o2's...BUT corrects for a richer than stoich for OPEN LOOP. Yea, Closed Loop and AFV's right? I think there is a lot more to it than that. Questions...from a tuner's standpoint, why would you not tune the entire fuel maps cells for perfect open loop functions...then simply hook up your o2's for closed loop correction? Why would one choose to write the fuel maps so very lean in this region?...think about this, you've got Closed Loop for correction?...I feel we are missing something very very simple here and it should reside in the ecu. Perhaps when the Helicon and DDFI3 were first prototyped...they did tune for perfection, only to find out later that the CONTROL of such functions was out of range per EPA...at that point, lean the base maps further to compensate. Just a theory. The map cells don't lie. This is just my opinion, not the gospel by any means! I've played a little on this bike's o2's and the wideband does do weird things! Bottom line, I don't see making the o2's lie as being the end fix. mm (Message edited by slypiranna on July 18, 2008) (Message edited by slypiranna on July 18, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Maybe I should have played a little more as of what your saying Xb9 is that AFV's will go LEAN over time with simulated o2's? Mine went RICH when I fooled the system but I didn't keep going with it due to continued fault codes. Interesting. mm... Is it worth a try with dual Zetronics? The FAST system doesn't offer any adjustment nor seems compatible for this system. (Message edited by slypiranna on July 18, 2008) | ||
| Slypiranna |
Chevycummins, if you don't have a means of monitoring A/F, pm me and I'll give you the details on how to view AFV's in real time. Curious to know which way your AFV's go with your mods. mm | ||
| Chevycummins |
My window of surge seems to be much larger than most from what I read here. Under 2800rpm seems good. Over 2800 to 3500rpm really jerky and will have the surge all the way to 7000rpm but is hard to feel at that speed. I tried this one night in first gear, ran on each 1000rpm all the way to 7000rpm and had surge at all speeds. It may just be my bike but mine feels lean all the way to 7000rpm when holding a steady speed. I was talking to an old H/D guy today and he told me about a little shop down the road from my work that the owner writes his own programs for his injected bikes. His personal H/D he wrote a program with dual layers so he has a economy mode and a performance mode. I knew you could do this with some ecu's like my duramax diesel truck but had no idea that the little delphi ecu on a bike could have dual layer programming. I'm going to try to stop in and talk to this guy if I can find his shop. Sounds like he might be a good source for information. | ||
| Xb9 |
(Message edited by xb9 on July 30, 2008) | ||
| Chevycummins |
This ecm looks like it might be the solution to some of my problems. http://www.haltech.com/e8.htm And cause many more problems. It might be a good way to go if you had a modified race bike. | ||
| Slypiranna |
Keep us posted Xb9, I'm sure we'll have a lot to talk about soon at mid ohio!...along with a "Learning" thread pic to post here! Your statement of a looser, well broken in engine is an important observation and or consideration that I'm currently looking at. Mines at 6k. I completely stripped my bike and the engine is out for better understanding. I'm doing some minor mods and general stuff but "balancing" or looking at this engine as two individual engines seems important. Compression, leakdown, valve lash, cam timing and other variables that could contribute to why some 11's can tolerate this lean area vs/why others cannot. I am finding some relevant issues. One very simple example. Since new, one of my forward cylinder's valve clearance was louder than all others and it kept getting louder or growing with clearance with time. It bothered me but I put it off until this teardown. Upon checking, it was found to be one of the intake valves on the forward cylinder. Way loose in clearance, in fact I could not see it as something that was just normal. Leakdown showed this. So I looked further and given the amount of soot in the intake track, it is my opinion that a little has worked its way between the valve face and seat. The heads are coming off this week for cleaning and further checking of top end internals. This is just one of the little things that could contribute to why my MAP readings were fluctuating so in previous tests. It also really wacks up the intake charge event through reversion, no doubt. I'll post more on the rest of the finds once proven after re-assembly. Once all is as mechanicially perfected as REASONABLY possible, I will be all for perfecting the maps if ness'y. I wish to eliminate every other possibility first though prior to just adding additional fuel. Maybe I won't have to add so much in the end is what I'm hoping with this effort. On a side note. I really want to find a way to divorce the AFV function from computer control. I will always be testing/tuning/modding so I would like to have a fast way to alter the fueling per mods. After proving, then go back in the maps and do a cell by cell adjustment and dial AFV back to zero. This would be an immense time saver in mod development! What I imagine is a dash mounted pair of potentiometers/dials to manually adjust the AFV. Maybe even a dual wideband monitor screen built in to boot! Need more ecu understanding though...a LOT more! Next! | ||
| Slypiranna |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/290 431/378041.html?1216579037 |
