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Baggermike
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 08:53 pm: | 
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Hey Ducxl, I have not been overwhelming BMC I have not had contact with them in over two month.
my dealership service manager that I called twice to get info and asked if thursday was good day to come up and said yes,
I got there and the guy has every thursday off I had not talked to in over a two month thence they fixed the locked up fuel pump,
I did not pin Blake down I asked if I was understanding what he said to make things clear,
I had made a comment a few days ago and was wrong and he corrected me and it came down to me reading it wrong so I am asking him if I am understanding what is written on the Buell website.
I have not even been posting much and just wanted to answer the guys question and help and I was wrong.
I gave up at Buell helping me a long time ago and was going to fix the bike myself and do not need a manual for replacing a simple part like a voltage regulator, I use to be a mechanic.
I think if I could get my money back and buy a Ducati I would think about it,
By the way Ducxl how many watts does the Ducati's put out?
would I be able to use my heated gear on one?
would it have 200 extra watts left over?
will it out handle and beat the 1125?
Talking bikes not riders.
Mike |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 09:21 pm: |
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Baggermike, Seems like I read in my electrical book that the charging system can only put out between 19 and 23 amps over 3000rpm. It would be interesting to test your total draw on the bike with everything on to see if your close to the limit. Also could check to see if the charging system will put out the spec. When you think about it 19 to 23 amps is really not very much to run the bike and any accessories. Also my dealership is not as helpful as I wish they were. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 09:56 pm: |
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I was given a electrical chart based on another buell and the total my bike uses with everything on and is a guess but I came out to 330 watts 28 amps,
the electrical manual is out and we will know more soon,
if you go on Buell.com and go to F A Q type in electrical and you can read the electrical specs. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 10:21 pm: |
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I've got the electrical book at home. I'll take a look in it tonight after work and let you know for sure. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 29, 2008 - 11:47 pm: |
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I would like that Chevy,
took me a long time to get the specs of the charging system but there is allot I still do not know.
it would be nice to get a workshop manual for this bike but think it is going to take a long time before we see the whole manual.
Mike |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 03:00 pm: |
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I looked in the electrical book and it said that the charging system should be able to produce 19 to 23 amps at 3000rpm. The book said to do a draw test to find out what your total amp draw is with the bike on and all your stuff on, heated grips, cooling fans, etc. Disconnect the voltage regulator wire, connect a inductive amp lead to the battery cable and it will tell you how much power the bike is using. Then reconnect the voltage regulator and test the charging system. Connect the amp lead to the charge wire from the voltage regulator, run the bike at 3000rpm, load the electrical system and see how much the charging system will produce. They state that the output from the charging system needs to be at least 3.5amps greater than the total draw from the bike. So with different lights and grips it looks like it would be easy to tax the charging system. I usually run my bike in a gear that keeps the rpm at 3500 or above. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 03:44 pm: |
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Chevy do you have all the watts of each electrical part uses?
I have a program to figure out how many watts are left over for accessories.
Mike |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 04:50 pm: |
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>>>the electrical manual is out
That's not quite accurate. There is a review draft in the works and dealers have a working draft.
Just wanted to make sure folks were storming the dealers trying to order the manual.
Watt's is but ONE PART of Ohm's law. |
Zac4mac
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 05:08 pm: |
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2008 Buell® Electrical Diagnostic Manual
Buell® 1125R Model
Official Factory Manual - 99949-08Y
Right in front of me, on my desk.
Still waiting for the Service Manual(mechanical stuff)
Z |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 05:19 pm: |
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The 9949008Y is indeed out and about.
(Message edited by court on April 30, 2008) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 05:35 pm: |
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Mike,
Sounds like your 1125R has a problem to me. If it won't hold a charge running above 2000 RPM, or especially above 3000 rpm, then it definitely has a problem. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 06:54 pm: |
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Thanks Blake,
I just got to find the right dealership to bring it to so it will get fixed,
or replace the voltage regulator myself.
Looks like I got to go to my dealership anyway so I will let them test it while the ecm is being updated and I need to buy some parts and will get them delivered for free,
I really like the dealership and after owning many many bikes I have seen bad things go on at every service center so I will let them look at it.
I have one question Blake should I ride up there with my 44 watt heated vest on with high beams?
that is as close as I can get to running heated grips and I have a led tail light so that saves ten watts or more and I replaced the front running lights with leds so that saves almost ten watts also,
so I should be under the limit still with what the system is designed to run on paper.
I saved 20 watts going with leds and the vest is 44 watts so that comes out to 24 watts extra and the heated grips are 36 watts,
so I am still 12 watts under using high beams and heated grips,
plus the ride is all highway for 1.5 hours and they are less than a mile off of the highway,
this way if I ride on the highway over 3000 + rpms and get there with a discharged battery it would show that the bike is not running good,
or should say nothing and just ask them to check it out.
I am listening to all you Guy's advise, so let me know.
Mike |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:32 pm: |
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I think if it was my bike I would do the tests that I stated above to make sure that I was not overloading the charging system. Then you could experiment with different accessories turned on and off and know at what engine rpm you can use different accessories. I guess the dealer could do the same test but they will probably have to charge you when they find its not a normal warranty problem. As a mechanic you always check the aftermarket stuff first and in my findings it is usually the problem. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 07:54 pm: |
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Chevy been down this road they had all my heated gear hooked up and said I was good to go and got home with a dead battery,
I now do not use anything and know all I need is a voltage regulator,
a charging system is 3 parts the power generator which is the stator and rotor and puts out AC volts and goes to the voltage regulator to be converted to DC current to keep the battery fully charged,
I have tested the stator and is good and I have replaced the battery and no difference,
that leaves on part the voltage regulator and would be a guess if I did not test it but I have and it is bad plain and simple the question is what to do about it. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 08:23 pm: |
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As a general rule I never trust any shop. Sad but true, is it possible that when they tested it with all the heated gear and said it was ok, that they did not test the charging output properly and it was actually overloaded by the stuff and caused the regulator to get hot and fail. I also am guessing that the heated and aftermarket stuff has been disconnected and the battery still dies? If possible I would check the charging system as the service manual stated in a previous post. At least you would know if the new regulator is going to be taxed and cause it to fail because of too much current draw from accessories. 19 to 23amp output is not much for a charging system and would be easy to overload, especially at low rpm. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:16 pm: |
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Hi Chevy I got it all figured out and know that I can not use high beams and a heated jacket liner and gloves,
I look at this way the bike has high beams on with the low beams and is made to handle heated grips so that is 105 watts extra that it is made to power,
so if I just use low beams and my 90 watt jacket liner I will be good to go if the bike is operating correctly,
I now know what I needed to know which is posted on the buell website.
I have a bike that will run all my heated gear and it is the Buell Blast so I am rebuilding it over the summer and it is my cold bad weather bike,
I figured instead of carrying lots of layers of cloths when touring on the 1125R that does not have allot of space to carry things the heated jacket liner is perfect for this, it rolls up small and lets me have more space to carry other important things.
But if gas keeps going up I will be touring on the Blast it gets over twice the gas mileage as the 1125R,
plus I do not have to worry about the bike being ripped off while sleeping and can go on any roads or trails with the Blast.
Aerostich has a little book about touring on a bike like the Blast and is only five dollars and free if we buy over 100 dollars from them.
They have lots of good things for bikes on there website, and the book is good reading. |
Bigdog_tim
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:18 pm: |
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Mike.....
Before you go and do more mod's or anything else that may possibly invalidate your warranty - please - follow the advice you are getting. I do find it very difficult to believe that 3 different dealers are not able to diagnose your problem. My experience - with my Dealer and a truly random number of dealers scattered throughout the Pacific NW is that they know what they are doing OR have access to the "Bat Phone" to get the right help directly from the factory.
Yep, I was one of those with a faulty VR. It took my dealer all of 20 minutes to figure that out (ok - a little longer to get a replacement VR).
Yes - I am still concerned about battery discharging - and am monitoring it closely.
That being said - I have not had any problem (other than stuck in a 2 hour traffic jam - different thread).
My advice - let the Dealer do their thing. |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:23 pm: |
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Baggermike, Sounds like people could take lessons from Green Acres! Can't plug a 4 in with a 8 because its over 10! Glad its all fixed. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 30, 2008 - 09:58 pm: |
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I am to and do not have any other issue's just need one part replaced and even now my bike has been starting all the time so I am not one with a dead battery problem,
I also do not trust service departments and have many many reasons.
I do like the dealership they are awesome just to far away but the only one that cut me a deal. |
Bigdog_tim
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:48 am: |
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Mike....
Beware of those that "will cut you a deal". Which do you want? The problem (that you have been talking about on a lot of different threads) fixed - or - the problem fixed so you can focus on riding.
For whatever it is worth....
My answer is to avoid trying to find the "DEAL". Your bike is covered by warranty - it should be free. Get the problem resolved. Let those guy's do it. They are trained (better than I am) and they are on the hook to make it right.
As soon as you do "something else" - well - you are screwed. Quit doing that. Quit waiting for some person (that you don't name to respond). Just take you rig to a dealer - they WILL sort it out.
I know - you have stated often you don't trust your dealer. Guess what - BMC has a process to make SURE you are happy.
Bottom line - Mike - do EVERYONE on badweatherbiker.com a favor - do the right thing - let your dealer sort through you problems. You have so many - my head hurts. I have a bike - exactly the same as yours. My dealer has sorted out every single issue I have had - no worries.
I am extremely picky - I want my voltage to be in the right range, I want it to start without having to rely on a battery tender, I want, I want.......
My dealer has done FANTASTIC by my (even though I have to tell them AHEAD of time the latest)...
Ok - I digress.... My dealer HATES it when I hang out here. I get info AHEAD of them - and I REGULARLY get told that I should surf porn instead of Buell. 
Mike - enough is enough. Do I need to cross country to just give you a ride back from your dealer? Just ask - I am pretty confident that the family of Bueller's can make that happen. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:28 am: |
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>>>BMC has a process to make SURE you are happy.
That is absolutely correct. They also have a process to keep techs from engaging in casual conversations with customers wherein a casual chat will be reported as "official factory information".
Think of it this way . . . . of more than a thousand 1125R's made Mike has the ONLY ONE exhibiting these symptoms.
Try placing a deck of cards on the table, reshuffling after each draw and seeing if you can get to 1,000 cards drawn and NEVER get a Club.
If you are searching for an address in Chicago but without knowing it are are using a map of Detroit, no amount of heightened commitment, redoubling your efforts of trying harder is going to help. Read Stephen Covey for details.
In addition, making a sweeping generalization that dealers are all bad is not likely to advance your cause very rapidly.
Solve the problem. |
Tasmaniac
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 06:54 am: |
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Mike
Dont take this the wrong way but stop being a cheapskate (Deal? Free Freight)
honestly your Dealer Probably shudders everytime they see you coming (no offence intended)
You have purchased a Superbike everthing is designed to be minimal yet you are loading it up with extra crap ditch the lot just keep your grips and gps.
I ride all year every day and i've found this gear to be the best
FXRG long Jacket and pants $1400.00 Aus dollars
Reusch mens downhill gloves $210.00
Axo boots $400.00
This gear has endured frost,snow and some of the wildest storms you can imagine i have never been cold or wet and i only wear jeans a long sleeve t-shirt and cotton drill shirt underneath.
If you need all that extra junk buy an old Ultra for the long trips.
Once again no offence intended
Regards Brett |
Spectrum
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:31 am: |
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Mike,
Every time someone suggest the electrical accessories or mods are part of your problem, you rationalize these as reducing the load or why you believe the system should handle these.
The added accessories and modifications are variables that are making solving your problem more difficult and adding complexity. In effect you maybe be the cause of your own problems or at a minimum contributing to the lack of a solution.
The key to diagnosing and solving any problem is to eliminate as many variables as possible.
Remove and stop using after market accessories until your charging systems is sorted out and your confident all is well and stable.
Only when you know the charging system is stable and you are armed with the proper information and data can you start to experiment with what accessories it can handle. Note proper information would be the actual 1125R Electrical Diagnostic Manual and not information from another model bike. Even then you should only add 1 accessory at a time and test each addition over an extended period of time before adding the next.
We all want to help and would like to see your problems get solved. But the bottom line is your charging system woes are not going to get solved as long as you keep complicating the situation with electrical modifications and accessories. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 07:37 am: |
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I described it, over a month ago, as trying to hold balloons underwater in a bathtub.
It's impossible to manage that many variables changing several times a day.
I also am far less concerned about the "watts" (it's a constraint, but a very defined one) as I am the many, many, many connect-disconnects that have taken place piling this myriad of things on the bike.
I'd try to get a static situation . . . stabilize things . . . then move ahead with a plan. |
Helicon
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:26 pm: |
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Maybe this has already been done to Mike's bike or someone else has mentioned it but ........ Shouldn't the new reflash of the ecm help with the charging problem (among other things) ? |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 12:41 pm: |
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quote:I now do not use anything and know all I need is a voltage regulator
Thats a reasonable guess, but you don't *know* anything of the sort. You could just as well say you have tested the Stator and the Voltage regulator (and I believe you have) so the battery must be bad.
quote:a charging system is 3 parts the power generator which is the stator and rotor and puts out AC volts and goes to the voltage regulator to be converted to DC current to keep the battery fully charged,
It is also a complicated series of connections in between, and it also has a "load" component, which is also highly variable (and yours more variable then most). And it's not a static system, it changes moment to moment.
If you want to slap on a $125 voltage regulator because it is really easy, relatively cheap, and it will either solve your charging problem or leave you with an extra perfectly good voltage regulator to use later or sell, more power to you. There are worse methods to try, particularly for intermittent problems.
But the logic of "it must be the VR" isn't true... so just go into it knowing the risk / benefit ratio you are in the middle of. |
Baggermike
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 01:03 pm: |
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I tested the voltage regulator and it is bad.
I will not continue responding to untrue facts like I have heated grips, or I have added all these accessories.
I have never had heated grips and the only accessories I added is gps and shift light.
replacing lights with leds saves power and do not use hardly any power.
enough is enough.
I tried to answer the guys question and then it gets turned around to me again.
this is my last post.
I use to enjoy helping guys with questions but no longer will do this or anything else. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 01:59 pm: |
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>>>enough is enough.
That is an accurate statement.
Let me say this again.
When I read your "do not use hardly any power." I cringe. I'll bet the loads you have placed yon the 1125R electrical system likely have NOTHING to do with your problem.
If they did and it were logical then others, doing the same thing, would likely report similar concerns.
This is like a dog chasing it's tail . . the faster you replace stuff, the further you get from solving the problem.
Absent a methodical way of resolving this . . you are chasing ghosts. |
Reepicheep
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 03:13 pm: |
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How did you test your VR?
Sorry if I offended you, my motive has been nothing but trying to help from the moment you made your first post.
No offense meant, I have had a huge struggle understanding some of what you are trying to say, and keeping track of what did and didn't happen, but that doesn't bother me... you sound like a neat guy. All my favorite people are quirky.
BTW, how many connectors and pins are on the voltage regulator on your 1125R? All my comments have been assuming a voltage regulator like on my old M2, which had basically two wires and a ground. You can get away with that on a shunt regulator.
How many wires, and how many pins in each wire, does the 1125R regulator have? I think I may have made a few very wrong assumptions myself...
(Message edited by reepicheep on May 01, 2008) |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 04:00 pm: |
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Mike:
Stick with us here . . breath deep. No one wants to offend you.
Reep is excellent at stuff like this and we're bound and determined to get to the root of your problems and get you riding.
Court |
Chevycummins
| | Posted on Thursday, May 01, 2008 - 09:17 pm: |
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Baggermike, if you still have some questions feel free to PM me. I am always willing to help and do have the electrical book and a lot of experience with electrical stuff. |
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