| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketman |
If you look at the rwhp at 4k, 5k, 6k, 7k, 8k rpm and compare the dyno at the beginning of this thread and the best 1125R to the these two stock 1098 here is what you get. Dyno testing for peak numbers is generally done by getting the bike settled at a base RPM of say 4k in 4th gear, then wacking the throttle wide full open. Such does not represent the way the bike is set-up to run at say 30% or 40% or 50% throttle opening, so the dyno has no clue as to how much the throttle is open and what the ECU is doing. With manufacturers concentrating more on mid range power and emission targets, and electronics becoming ever more sophisticated, it's nigh on impossible to measure with a dyno what exactly the power delivery is at any given throttle opening other than WFO. The two stock 1098's were dynoed with one peak at 131rwhp and the second peak 137rwhp. Back to the two Australian bikes we've spoke of already. Are these the only two dyno tested 1098's in existence? Great way to extrapolate data for every 1098, but still, you can have it your way. So they test a 1098 and get a disappointing figure of 131.1rwhp Sometime later they get another 1098 and they post up two charts for it running stock. One records 137.5 on one pull, and then 137.4 on another pull. Given Ducati claim 150 at the crankshaft I'd assume 137 is respectable. Two things should be considered by the Australian dyno figures. First, both 1098's have about 620 miles on them. If you know anything about Ducatis you'd know that's way to early to achieve the motors full potential. Those motors will be as tight as a nuns vagina. Second, the first 1098 isn't on the money by a long way. Maybe partly because it's tight. But the dyno operator offers us a clue when he refers to the second 1098 "Clearly this one is better, why I don’t know"  Way to go for basing the 1098 on two different performing bikes on the same dyno at completely different times. But instead of posting all this 1098 stuff, WHERE ARE THE 1125 DYNO PULLS? Rocket | ||
| Brad1445 |
For some people the 1098 is worth the extra cash. For others it doesn't. +1 They are not direct competitors. }}} | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm not fussed by the 1098 anyways. If I were out for a sportsbike new today, I'd be going MV1000F4. In any case, I remember starting in this thread by talking about an old R1. I don't like the 1098. It's styled to attract a wider audience usually buying Japanese bikes. Anyway, the 1098's got a hole in the torque curve and its bottom end delivery is piss poor on a dyno, which is where I spend a lot of my riding time. I'm a purist. 916 any day. At least they look the dogs, even if they are slow! Rocket | ||
| Spike |
Unless you can post another dyno, this actually is a great way to extrapolate data--from the available dyno charts. I've got one on my desk from Motorcyclist showing a flat spot, but you conveniently don't want to talk about that one. But hey- at least the 1098 has a pretty set of keys. | ||
| Bkeppenne |
Well I guess I'll add my 2 cents in this discussion. I am the very happy owner of a 2007 XB12R, I love it on the streets and I love it on the track. When I heard about the 1125R coming I thought "damn, I will HAVE to replace my Firebolt with the 1125R". That is until I saw the 1125R in person at the Toronto motorcycle show in December. to me it looks plain ugly. I love the looks of my XB12R and I can't get used to the looks of the 1125R. I do not even want to talk about performance at this stage. I love riding but I also love to sit in my garage and look at my bike (especially during those long canadian winters...). The looks of the 1125R disappointed me so much that I just have to look elsewhere if I want to upgrade from my XB12R. Guess where I looked? Ducati. I have a deposit on an 848. I still do not know for sure if I will sell my Buell but I fell in love with the 848 for its looks and also for all the praise it received since it was launched. Why fight about who is better, Buell or Ducati? I like my Buell and I will like my Ducati. I like chicken and I like fish. | ||
| Rocketman |
If only you guys could see today's MCN UK. First ever test of the 1098R, and by crikey does the thing get heaped with praise! I've decided to concede the flat spot thing, and the cheap seats 1098. The 1125 can have it. 1098R is where it's really at. So close to a WSB racer it's untrue. Even the traction control is the same as on Bayliss' bike. Put that in your pipe and smoke it. Rocket | ||
| Reepicheep |
I can't disagree Rocket. You pay through the nose for the 1098R, but in terms of exotics, its a great deal. How does it compare to the Ducatti V4? (price, power, and suspension)? I don't know a lot about either bike (nor am I in any way their target market). | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Reep look here: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/333660.html?1201726519 "Ducati's newest motorcycle, a $72,500 superbike bristling with titanium, magnesium and carbon fiber technology that can scoot up to 200 mph." | ||
| Xb984r |
I dunno and may never know because I doubt Ducati will have the courage. M2NC,seems Buell didn't have the courage to go up against the Big 4 Superbikes.The same ones an Anonymous poster said they had better track times than. | ||
| Rocketman |
How does it compare to the Ducatti V4? From everything I've read, the V4 is not a bike you would own to ride on the road. That you would, is perhaps to go somewhere like the Rock Store, to show off. Coincidentally, my own V8 is similar in this respect  The 1098R is no doubt capable of playing on the street, though I doubt many will. Now if I had one, I would be playing on the street. Rocket | ||
| Slaughter |
M2NC,seems Buell didn't have the courage to go up against the Big 4 Superbikes Hate to break it to you - Buell had NEVER pretended it to be in the same ballpark. SOME people seemed to want that but except for the price point, it's NOT comparable to a 4-cylinder bike. Clue: 1125R is a TWIN, the "Big 4 Superbikes" are 4-CYLINDERS. You can't get there from here with a twin. Period. | ||
| Xb984r |
Really Slaughter,someone might want to tell to tell the other manufacturers of V-Twin bikes racing in Superbike.I seem to remember an anonymous poster claiming faster lap times on a 1125 than a GSXR-1000,so someone must be comparing them. | ||
| Rocketman |
Hate to break it to you - Buell had NEVER pretended it to be in the same ballpark. SOME people seemed to want that but except for the price point, it's NOT comparable to a 4-cylinder bike. Hate to break it to you - the 1098 is built purposely to compete in the showroom and on the Super Bike tracks of the world against the IL4 sportsbikes. 270 posts later you wouldn't have an 1125 compared to an IL4 1000, but many would have it compared to a 1098. Where's the logic? Rocket | ||
| M2nc |
There is no point for Buellers being hostile to Ducati bikes! These 2 firms have many in common ! No hostility, just clarification. Some here think the 1098 must be better than the 1125R just because.... I like the 1098 and Ducati. I am pumped that Ducati's largest gain in sales came here in the US. If I won a any free motorcycle of my choice, the 1098 would be on the final list. I've decided to concede the flat spot thing, and the cheap seats 1098. Thank you. All I am saying is I do not know how that flat spot will play out if the two bikes are tested heads up. Hate to break it to you - Buell had NEVER pretended it to be in the same ballpark. SOME people seemed to want that but except for the price point, it's NOT comparable to a 4-cylinder bike. What he said plus Ducati has never pinned a base 1098 against the Big 4 Open Class bikes either. The 1098S tested against the Big 4 Open Class bikes during the 2007 Master Bike competition was $22,795 bike. $2800 of that inflated price was in optional intake, exhaust and ECU modifications. That bike also had the Ohlins suspension upgrade and carbon fiber bits saving 10 lbs. And with all these upgrades it only managed a 0.156 second advantage over a GSX-R750. According to Ducati, their base model 1098 gets the same engine as the 1098S. Only the $30K "R" version gets enhanced engine performance. True, just the one I was referring to had options. | ||
| Slaughter |
The ONLY comparisons I have been seeing have been by people OTHER THAN Buell staff. The 2009 Superbike rules have been relaxed to allow 1200 cc Twins against the 4 or 5 cylinder bikes in AMA SBK. Doesn't mean that the power of the different bikes is actually comparable. That will still mean a 20-30HP disadvantage... although I haven't read the new rules so I can't say just WHAT engine mods will be allowed in the new SBK. I know AMA SBK is being completely restructured to more closely mimic Superstock and Superstock is going to be allowed to die. The only claims I have seen being made have been that there is TESTING being done on stock bikes - and the people actually doing the racing are NOT making any claims... they're busy getting ready to race in MotoST. I for one would love to see somebody run one of these bikes in AMA but it'd be a tough go for whoever tried it. MotoST - yessiree... AMA SBK? Doesn't make any sense. Over on our Willow Springs board, guys are reporting RWHP for the new STOCK litrebikes at close to 170HP with SBK-legal motor (Kawi ZX10R)... 8 HP more than the 2008 R1! It's going to be interesting in ALL racing in the coming couple years. It's just not realistic to compare the power/weight of these two completely different categories of bikes. {EDIT} - the HP numbers were from a Brit publication so are HP (DIN) and not HP (SAE) - knock them down a few to maybe 160-165 {EDIT 2} - it seems that people are making claims for the 1125R and then those "claims" are later picked up by others as if the factory had made those claims. I'm just sayin'... (Message edited by slaughter on January 30, 2008) | ||
| Rocketman |
No hostility Absolutely. I might come across as a lot of things, but never that. Not even when the chips are down  Some here think the 1098 must be better than the 1125R just because I didn't say that, but for me that would be my opinion. But if you asked me to ride one from Tierra del Fuego to Alaska, I'd be choosing the 1125. All I am saying is I do not know how that flat spot will play out if the two bikes are tested heads up. After you making such a strong case, it will be interesting indeed, and I agree with you here. I have this opinion regarding Ducatis sportsbike models. That they are the way they are, it isn't always possible to manufacture them with the power they are intended to have. It is a given that no one really buys a Ducati sportsbike without the intention of getting the power manufacturing constraints don't allow. That's why damn near everyone upgrades the pipe and EPROM chip, just in the same way Harley does for their power strangled models. Steve, when you get time, the rule changes are worth looking into. Anyway, I would like to see the 1125 racing, and racing well. Preferably in a national SB series. Rocket | ||
| Elvis |
As a fan of sporting twins and a fan of Ducati, I'd say the 1098R is quite possibly the coolest bike ever. But at $39,995, I think I'd rather have one of these:  One of these:  And one of these:  And I think I might still have a little money left over. | ||
| Rocketman |
I've always found the problem with having the sort of money that affords a £20000 motorcycle the greater choice you're suddenly faced with. £20k would buy me a lovely TVR350 or Sagaris. £20k would buy me the nicest Ferrari 308GTB4 available. £20k would buy me a nice Confederate Hellcat. I just couldn't spend £20k on a motorcycle unless I had a lot more than £20k left over. Some have. In fact plenty have. In which case they're not spoilt for choice. But I believe there's a lot to be said for having a limited budget, as it gives you a choice you might never have otherwise considered. Sorry to harp on about Ducatis, but here in the UK a nice 916 can be had for as little as £2500, which has to be the motorcycle bargain of the moment really. How does a 996 sound for £3500? Not a lot of money in the UK economy. Rocket | ||
| Reepicheep |
$39,995? Lets see, my last motorcycle purchase... How about 80 of these?  Does that put it in perspective? | ||
| Ccryder |
Sean: Thanks Neil | ||
| Rocketman |
Neil, I've exhausted myself, so am in need of replenishment, ready for my next bipolar movement. In all fairness I've beaten the subject to death, and the only outcome likely is that it's unfair to compare an 1125 to a 1098, but the 1125 will no doubt offer up some surprises that might just shock some. In which case it's time I quit just in case I make a fool out of myself. And we all know I'd never do that  It's been memorable, and very very tiring. Thanks Neil. It's nice to know that you know. You're a very wise fella, and a nice one too. Rocket | ||
| Ccryder |
Time for a pint or 2 mate. Then we can sit around and kick some more tires. Glad to see you are still passionate about motorcycles. If you hadn't stopped chewing up the 1125r you might have convinced me not to get one............................... NOT! Anyway you are going to miss a grand old time here at Home Coming. My SO and I are going to be there with my Pan European (ST1300) and the 1125r (you could have either to thrash around WI). You should think about joining in after all the $ is way down and you could convince yourself you'll be saving our economy LOL. Time4Sleep Neil | ||
| Rocketman |
Neil, I really have too many commitments this year. The TVR has cost a fortune. I'm spending as we speak on tarting up the S1W with expensive brake modifications. I'm wanting desperately to convert her to 1250 and XB Cycle-rama heads, which I've kinda got in the pipeline with Pammy. The V8 bike needs sorting, though there isn't really a rush. That said, a 4.5ltr carbed motor has just come up on eBay and it's pushing out 282HP and 310lbs of torque. It's not silly money (yet, lol) but that would be good for a Bonneville run or two. We will have that drink again. There are so many fond memories as the years fly by. Just yesterday was talking with Zak, when I realised he's in Longmont. Been there, wouldn't mind passing through again. Nice part of the world. Would love to have a beer in Boulder again too. Rocket | ||
| Zac4mac |
Hey Sean - my place isn't the Ritz, but the door's open. Got you a chunk of Ti - 14.5" ready to go. Summers here are gorgeous. Z | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Looks like Jeremy McWilliams put a 1098R through it's paces. http://www.motorcycledaily.com/30january08_2008duc ati1098r.htm | ||
| Rocketman |
Thanks Zac. I hope to be back soon. And I like modest too. Should get Maltesers on Saturday. Need to be at the wholesalers for the big size! Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
That 1098R has me wishing I was as slim as Jezza! Rocket | ||
| Dave_bogue |
Buell 1125R $12,000 versus base Ducati 1098 $16,000: It's hard to compare two motorcycles that are $4000 apart in price. That's a lot of money for a working man like me. Let's see what the 1125 does with typical modifications: full exhaust system, air box mods & filter, and Power Commander. Should be fun! Dave | ||
| Rocketman |
Let me ask this of the 'average' American earner. I have this theory that here in the UK, if you were saving to buy a 1098 for £11500, and you had £9500, the logic would be another £2000 ($4000) would be doable with a little more time and commitment to your savings. So you'd get your 1098 rather than settle for say a Blade or an R1, which is about £2000 cheaper than a 1098 (bearing in mind the 1125 is approximately £3000 cheaper here than a 1098, so the price difference between it and the 1098 is greater than $4000). Applying the same logic Stateside, is $4000 a big difference for you, between an 1125 and a 1098 if you really wanted a 1098? Please, this is not a put down of the 1125 or its pricing. I have often wondered this about the dollar \ pound value, and how it relates to earnings. I would think, based on English pound comparison, $4000 is not a bridge too far between both models? Rocket | ||
| Zac4mac |
I don't think it would matter to me. If I wanted the Duc, I'd get the Duc. Six months ago I was very happy with the bike I had, an 03 Firebolt. Then my tire guy showed me the 1125R and it was love at first sight. I really wanted just this bike. Nothing else was an option. Now I'm again very happy with my bike. Weather's good, 29˚, headed for the upper 40s. Looks like a good day to ride. Z |
