| Author | Message | ||
     Buellnewbie |
So I've now read a couple of articles in Sport Rider and Motorcyclist which state that the bikes they rode had problems with overheating, FI glitches below 3000 rpm and almost painful heat on the right foot. After questioning Buell techs about these issues, the standard response was that they would be fixed. First, I'm wondering why the bikes were overheating to begin with. Secondly, I'm wondering what exactly Buell has done to correct these problems now that production has started. Anyone know? | ||
| Josh_ |
Read the mag write ups, then the Inside Pass comments on here, seems Buell has been applying fixes to fine tune on the fly prior to the first retail 1125R rolling off the line. You'll be hearing in a few weeks how they're doing on the street - I hope to be on mine by thanksgiving. | ||
| Torquemonster |
Bnewb- I definately dont have the scientific breakdown for you on that one, but "PRE-production" is nuff said for me...Im sure an issue such as that hotfoot (given Erik's experience in engineering / racing) would have been addressed and corrected before they started cha-chingin' em. If not, well, thats what recalls are for. per Motorcyclist Nov. 07 (page 50) the FI/3k rpm issues you spoke of were reported to be "attributed to maladjusted air-idle valve settings" which were adressed shortly thereafter, Im sure. Sounds pretty fixable to me. Pre or post production...  I cant wait to throw a leg over one! (Message edited by torquemonster on November 02, 2007) | ||
| Zac4mac |
As far as the "hotfoot" goes, they've added a heat shield behind the rear cylinder, very near the right footpeg. The plumbing for the water pump has changed too, but I doubt that was for the hotfoot issue. Perhaps the muffler itself is smaller, but that's probably perspective only. There were apparently different fuel maps being tested, along with different balancer combos in the initial mules, likely with changes for the better in production bikes. I don't recall hearing any issues about overheating, just the hotfoot, which was prevalent in the early sessions. I also hope to have mine by Thanksgiving. Z (Message edited by zac4mac on November 02, 2007) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I did 10 or so laps at miid ohio on an 1125r, and never noticed a thing in terms of heat. Of course I was wearing my street gear (I don't have race gear), which included over ankle boots. Don't know if mine had any changes or not. | ||
| Bearly |
I wonder how much of the heat was caused by running clear water in the cooling system as they did for the mules on the inside pass days. I wonder if the engines ran just a little hotter than they normally will with glycol / water mixture? I know Anony Said that they were running water, I just wonder how much hotter they might run? Does anyone have a feel for that? | ||
| Paintballtommy |
i allways thought straight water cooled better the problem being it coroded things without the glycol. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
i allways thought straight water cooled better the problem being it coroded things without the glycol. wrong. there are two ways to raise the boiling point of water-- chemically and by raising the pressure. coolant cools better than strait water. | ||
| Paintballtommy |
i wasnt talking about raising the boiling point i was under the impression that straight water conducts and transfers heat better than the water glycol mix. | ||
| Paintballtommy |
http://www.valvoline.com/carcare/articleviewer.asp ?pg=dsm20041101ic&cccid=3&scccid=4 second paragraph I WINNNNN!!!!!!! J/K but i was fairly correct. were there any reports of them boiling the coolant on the track? (Message edited by paintballtommy on November 03, 2007) | ||
| Coal400 |
(Disclaimer: I'm not an engineer but I am a forum participant  ) The greater the temperature difference between the coolant/water mixture and ambient temp, the greater the efficiency of exchange (in other words the radiator can dump more heat) Glycol increases the boiling temp, and lowers the freezing point of water. Increasing the atmospheric pressure will also increase the boiling point of water. The goal is to achieve the higher operating temps providing more efficient heat exchange. This way you can cool an engine with less coolant, and a smaller exchanger. All that said, I think you are still partially right Tommy. I think you could make the valid argument that water is superior over glycol, but it would be in an application closer to HVAC than automotive... Do we have an Environmental Engineer in the house? | ||
| Badlionsfan |
water may transfer heat better than coolant, but if it's boiling out of your overflow it's useless. | ||
| Paintballtommy |
thats true badlionsfan i have run straight water in my 351w powered mustang during the summer with a 190 thermostat without boiling over. of course i had a giant 4 core radiator but still it ran great. glycol does raise the boiling point but how much? does the pressurized system help more or does the glycol? | ||
| Paintballtommy |
im pretty sure that the boiling point for water is raised 3 degrees for every pound of pressure the system is under. since water boils at 212 degrees and lets estimate the system is under say 15 psi the straight water would boil at about 260 degrees. that seems to be well within the heat range of the liquid cooled powerplants (Message edited by paintballtommy on November 03, 2007) | ||
| Paintballtommy |
http://www.rehermorrison.com/techtalk/55.htm | ||
| Badlionsfan |
trying to digest all this made my brain explode, but it's is informative, esp the graphs. http://www.jcna.com/library/tech/tech0011.html | ||
| Paintballtommy |
http://www.racerpartswholesale.com/redtech3.htm | ||
| Paintballtommy |
this is getting to be a really good thread thats a nice link badlionsfan it talks alot about the properties of the different mixtures. i still think pure water transfers the heat better without boiling over. it gives good examples of boilingpoints man 387 degrees to boil pure ethylene glycol is hot. the tests also dont take into account the larger surface area of the radiator or circulation. super informative though. i think we all know more about water and coolant than we really need to haha (Message edited by paintballtommy on November 03, 2007) | ||
| Badlionsfan |
yeah that water wetter is good stuff, really works too. that's kinda how i know just enough about this to be dangerous, several years of technical training from my days at summit racing equipment. redline came in once and did a seminar, gave us the simple man version of how it and coolant works, and why it's usually better than water. | ||
| Paintballtommy |
back on track now were the track bikes boiling over? | ||
| Slaughter |
back on track now were the track bikes boiling over? Not on 5 different bikes that I rode at Willow Springs. All steady at 200-210F (at least when I looked) - but the day was relatively cool for Desert standards - about 72F outside air temp. (Message edited by slaughter on November 03, 2007) | ||
| Coal400 |
In that regard you're right Tommy FWIW - The timing of my response was delayed, I was actually responding to your first post, and not the follow-up. Here is a chart showing the boiling point of water effected by both pressure and Ethylene Glycol. Temps are in Fahrenheit PSI.....CapPSI.....Water.....1/3EG.....1/2EG 14.7......0...............212............257...... 264.2 22.1.....7.4............235............271.......2 76.8. 26.4....11.7...........243............282.......28 8.5 29.4....14.7..........249.4........295.......302.9 | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Pure water has better heat transfer properties than water-glycol or antifreeze mixtures. If I remember correctly pure water can be 20% more efficient. But there is always the issues of corrosion, scaling and freezing, so coolants are used. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
I rode the bike as hard as the track at pocono would let me, and the heat on the foot i didn't feel. And for the fuel injection it was perfect. if thats all they can find wrong with it YAHOO. I race a XB12R and a XBRR for liberty hd-buell and this is by far the best bike buell has ever made GO BUELL | ||
| Vagelis46 |
So, you think that the 1125R handles better than the XB12R and the XBRR ? That is great to hear ! Any comments between the differences you experienced on the XB12R and the 1125R? Not in the engine's performance, but in the handling of the bike. Can the 1125R keep a line as tight as the XB12R ? Is it as stable as the XB when leant over? Corner speed? Lean angles and pegs touching down? | ||
| Eboos |
I'm sure I didn't run my bikes as hard as Anthony, but I did feel a lot of heat coming through my Sidi Vertigo Corsa boot. It was bad enough to be very distracted after a 20 minute session. Maybe if I had Anthony's pace, there would have been increased air cooling. LOL Seriously though, we were assured that this was already addressed and corrected when we mentioned it. I absolutely love this bike. I will be buying one as soon as possible. | ||
| Jerseyguy |
What Ant (Mutant) said. The bike I rode at Pocono ran perfectly with no hot foot, no excessive vibes or FI probs at any speed. The only issues I had was finding the rear brake lever (irrelevant anyway), remembering not to wack the throttle on exiting corners, and not realizing how frigging fast the thing was at the end of the back straight. | ||
| Mutation_racer |
If you ride a bolt now you'll love the 1125R. I think it feels a lot like my 12r. If you have ever rode at pocono it like riding on an old country road. On this bike i never felt the bumps, smooth as silk. I won't say the suspension was as good as our XBRR, but it was right there. | ||
| Vagelis46 |
Thanks for the info. How did you like the ZTL2 brakes ???? Are you happy with the ZTL of the XB12R ?? I am not 100% happy with the ZTL, and I am looking to upgrade with the 8-piston caliper. I am looking for info, from people that has experience with the XB12R and are used to push a bike really hard. Comments from people that experienced a track for the first time in their lifes, on the 1125R, and said that the bike is really good, is worthless. They would also like a Honda VFR as well...... I want to hear from fast riders. | ||
| Eboos |
Vagelis46, you will here from experienced "fast" riders in the magazine reviews. I ride my M2 on the track and have ridden a 12R hard on the street many times. I have done 2 trackdays, a 2 day road racing school, and 2 races. I am sorry if my resume is not up to your standards, but I feel like I would give a real world perspective of this bike's qualities and attributes. By the way, I haven't ridden a VFR, but I'm sure I would like it. |
