| Author | Message | ||
     Cudajohn |
Since the Buell and Aprilia now both have a Rotax (albeit different engines entirely), and the Trilogy of Tech IMO is the most rider minded philosophy, could one claim that the 1125 is "better" than Italian twin? I know the engine design is NOT the same, only who the mfg. is, but being an updated engine and low unsprung weight/ mass centralization/ frame rigidity, is this a bike that will fit in with and best some Italian models? I have owned a 'bolt and was looking to get a bike in the next two years, a 1970 Plymouth 'cuda restoration has to get completed first, and was thinking of going with a used 1098 or Aprilia mainly because of being water cooled. I would love to say I am a die hard Bueller but I like most all quality machines and don't want to give loyalty to one make. Will this bike turn un-decisive riders into loyalists? (Message edited by Cudajohn on October 03, 2007) | ||
| Court |
>>>>one claim that the 1125 is "better" than Italian twin? One could not, the 1125r has yet to be released. One could, and I may, surmise that based solely on data. But to make the leap of faith would open one to question, and rightfully so. The Buell and the Aprilia motors, beyond having the same number of cylinders, may be thought of like the classic "eggs and golf balls" example . . . only the unknowing would assume anything beyond a cursory physical similarity. I'm rootin' for the early Buell and 1098 tests . . . I think Buell has a world beater on their hands **IF** (Reg is welcome to chime in here) they market it properly. One more TT marketing stunt and it'll be forever relegated to "the first water cooled Buell". Court | ||
| Cataract2 |
Um. What was the TT marketing stunt? I was off line during this I believe. | ||
| Ebear |
Of course long term comparisons are likely on the horizon for these two , I plan on giving a detailed report on the 1125R versus Tuono after my stint at Willow Springs on the 17th. Then come December 18th I will be doing one from Laguna Seca. I have had the Tuono for 3 years plus and think I know the bike fairly well. I'm not certain of the fate of this Aprilia but as of now I'm expecting this Comparo to give me a (slightly more) educated direction to take! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Look forward to hearing it Ebear. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Personally, I loved the line from the engineer at Pocono - "Rotax looked at the Aprilia motor and all its design shortcomings, and fixed them in our motor". heheh....cooool  I can't wait for some real-world tests...and for a chance to ride one on the street. The track was a ton of fun and the thing is insanely fast, but I want to see how it does on a real duty-cycle - traffic lights, potholes (although Pocono east had plenty of those, LOL), mirrors, low-rpm cruising, etc. | ||
| Cudajohn |
Does it sound just like a Harley? No offense to those who like that, I liked the sound of my 'bolt with the aftermarket can but it got annoying when Every stop was, "Man, that thing sounds like a Harley but it sure don't look like a Harley!" Either way, I am just curious of the note. | ||
| Nicozzzz |
An Italian journalist that win an Italian naked championship with aprilia Tuono Factory. try the bike in laguna seca , name is Max Temporali he put on his article the bike over aprilia , and he say best two cylinder bike 1 1098 s 2 Buell 1125 R 3 999 s 4 RSV 1000 he made also a italian championship supertwin with a stock XB12R model in Mugello race make qualify lap in 2'04'' with street tyre consider than normal private pilot made lap in 2'08'' with GSXR 1000 and there is a 1100 meters of straight where buell xb12R lose seconds . so the driver is very nice and beliveable witness | ||
| Ebear |
Hey Angelo..!!! Thanks for the Info , could you post a link to that article for me?..I would like to read his story. And WOW!!! I like your Cool looking Uly! I was looking at buying the 1098 until the 1125 came out.It should look good next to my X1 and S3.Have a great day and see ya! | ||
| Jon |
Nicozzzz, Thanks for chiming in....very interesting information. I can't wait to see the new new breed in person. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'll be on one tomorrow... neener neener neeeeeeener! | ||
| Swampy |
I think the TT marketing stunt was the coloring contest. You know the one, the one that Spiderman lost, because of the Venezuelan tabulation of the voting results. | ||
| Nicozzzz |
this is the link of the articles , introduction , technical data , ant pagella wher you find the impressions . http://www.tuttomoto.com/approfondire/prove/buell/ 28_08_1125r/presentazione.htm in the article say that on the street the bike is more easy than 1098 and rsv 1000 at end of the article say that on the calassification of sport two cylinder is on the podium , I know him personnaly and what I post is his podium ;) thanks for the compliment , I'm so exite and I still wait too for have the bike , seems that in Italy will be not before February | ||
| José_quiñones |
That is NOT an accurate statement..... They share parts like the oil filter, among others, they share fundamental design features like the stroke and the vacumn assisted clutch, among others. As Ratbuell mentioned, "Rotax looked at the Aprilia motor and all its design shortcomings, and fixed them in our motor". Without the 10 years of development and experience with the V990 behind them, it would have taken Rotax much longer than 3 years to develop the Helicon from scratch. It's the "new and improved" egg from the same mother. Not that there is anything wrong with that. (Message edited by josé_quiñones on October 04, 2007) | ||
| José_quiñones |
I have not spent long distance miles on any of them, but having briefly test ridden various Aprilias and the pre-production 1125R during the track day, I can say that I would prefer the Buell to the Aprilias for many admittedly "practical" reasons: 1. Lower Seat Height 2. Belt Drive 3. Lower maintenance requirements/costs. 4. Better Parts availability, less expensive part costs 5. There are many more Buell Dealers than Aprilia Dealers nationwide. (but the quality of the Buell Dealers is still an issue) You get all the good things about the Aprilia (Rotax power, "street cred") PLUS the usual Buell benefits (better handling, brakes) and the ones mentioned above. Now the styling, that's up to your tastes.... (Message edited by josé_quiñones on October 04, 2007) | ||
| Nattyx1 |
This is a tough call because there is ONE 1125r and several Aprilia models... the Buell in terms of ergonomics slots in between the tuono and RSV Mille - I'd argue it reflects the best of each without the shortcomings of either. I've ridden the 1125r at several events now, and have considerable seat time on various Aprilia models. Engine-wise, FWIW I like the flatter yet punchier torque curve on the Buell. I think the Buell's new ZTL is right there with the radial mount Brembos (yes, that was a surprise) in terms of power and feel. So is it "better" than the Aprilia? This is 90% subjective, even if you ride the bikes back to back... but it's certainly at least as GOOD as any Aprilia now matter how you measure it. Personally I like it better, but ymmv -- if you're the kind of person who'd choose a Moretti over a Sam Adams, it won't matter how good the Buell is. Of course if you're not a brand loyalist, you're not reading this anyway. Simple answer: get one of these, they rock. | ||
| Nicozzzz |
I want to tell you a very ugly thing about Massimo Temporali . when he win the italian naked championship with aprilia tuono all other driver with aprilia tuono too was scared with him they all say that his aprilia wasn't regular there was some secret inside cause he was too fast .. so the last race he run with a tottaly stock aprilia tuono factory delivered on the road track from a dealer leaving his racing bike , surprise was that the rule was the same was not reachable from the other guys . he his a very fast man , but ofter winning some important competition and trying some superbike race with padium .. he realize that he will never reach the motogp series and he give up race for doing the jurnalist at full time . this is a little story that can show that if he say that the bike is superior at aprilia and 999 and is in direct fight with 1098 for the top of mountain ( finding it more easly to drive on the road ) is the most beliveable italian voice on the matter .. and in particular he is not influenced by economic power | ||
| Paroyboy |
I dont think Aprilia uses Rotax engines anymore. I believe with the influx of Piaggio cash, they were able to design their own. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Not so sure - Rotax: http://www.rotax.com/en/Engine/2004/Motorcycle/Eng ine.Models.htm Aprilia: http://www.apriliausa.com/modelli/road/techinfo.as p?id=107 Just pulled these off the current factory pages (English versions) Looks like the same motor to me. Z (Message edited by zac4mac on October 07, 2007) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Well, having followed NattyX1 around Pocono...he's a guy who can ride, and knows what he's talking about. He's also very candid about his thoughts and if he says its as good as...it is. Thanks again for a great day - and I'm still trying to look thru turns with my head and not my eyes, LOL. Oh, and there was a Penske on ebay the other day but I didn't know how to get in touch with you - it may still be on there. | ||
| Dave_bogue |
"I dont think Aprilia uses Rotax engines anymore. I believe with the influx of Piaggio cash, they were able to design their own." =============================== The recently introduced Aprilia 750 "Shiver" is indeed an Aprilia engine, a V90. The 1000cc bikes still use the V60 Rotax engine. Aprilia is rumored to be developing a 1200 version of the Shiver engine for next generation bikes. Dave | ||
| Metalstorm |
Whether the 1125R is better than an Aprilia seems pretty open to personal preference. If I could afford a new bike right this minute the 1125R would be way better than an Aprilia for my intended use. The awesome wind protection, ergos and belt drive pretty much clinch that for me. The 6K rpm spread of power eliminates any second thoughts. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Jose' ..."They share parts like the oil filter,..." Still trying to hatch that golf ball? | ||
| Paroyboy |
"The recently introduced Aprilia 750 "Shiver" is indeed an Aprilia engine, a V90. The 1000cc bikes still use the V60 Rotax engine." Ooops, my bad. That must be the engine I'd heard about. The newer Aprilias have the new Lion Head on the cases, I figured they were all new. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Greg, Does the Helicon use the same oil filter as the Rotax V990 or not? | ||
| Reepicheep |
The Helicon and Rotax V990 oil filters are just as similar as the filter on my M2 and a Ford F150, which is just as similar as the filter on my XB9SX and a Toyota Tercel. Buell is just copying Ford motors. Err Toyota motors. Err Aprilla motors. ;) | ||
| Court |
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| Court |
>>>>it would have taken Rotax much longer than 3 years to develop the Helicon from scratch. I agree. . . . he conceded looking at the photo of a running engine from 1986. | ||
| Bombardier |
M2 X1 XB bloody great bikes/motors. Let down in spades by the brain dead dealerships who do not want to invest in their mechanics/technicians to tune/repair the things. You can have the greatest machine in the world and be let down by something as small as an O ring. The word Challenger comes to mind. Let us hope the drive to create is matched by the will to support. | ||
| José_quiñones |
Not similar, IDENTICAL, the SAME part, one of a number of parts that the V990 and the Helicon share, which was the point, they share parts and features that Rotax has patented and used in various engines in their past. They are clearly related, the PR spin that this is a completely new engine that is not related to anything is not accurate. |
