| Author | Message | ||
     Thin_air |
...is Harley Davidson!!! Went to Reno HD/Buell this weekend to talk to someone about ordering a 1125R. If you have ever been to Reno HD you will see that they have a HUGE building across the street from the HD store That has a big ass Buell sign on it and It says Reno Buell. Thats where they house our bastard bikes along with the Buell apparel and accessories. This is also where the used bikes are and the rider "comfort" center or something like that. I walk up to the counter and ask the joey, how many bikes do you have coming, how many are sold and how much deposit do you want to hold one for me. He politely informed me that he and the other person working in that building just did rentals and that I would have to go across the street and talk to a HD salesman. So I walk over to the stealership and on the way I am wondering how come they have gone thru all of the expense to aquire the building across the street and plaster Buell all over it and then dont even put a salesman in there. I ask a salesman for some help, he is busy with someone else and directs me to the bimbo at the reception desk. The receptionist calls for a salesman and two walk up. Salesman 1 finds out im interested in a Buell and decides its breaktime because the "other sales associate" could help me with my needs. I ask the same questions, he disappears to get the info. I waited about 3 minutes before I went looking for him. There he was standing next to a queerglide talking to somebody else. I took the two bungee cords I was going to purchase and politely hung them back up and walked out. This really pisses me off because I don't want another bike, I want a 1125R or I would have gone over to the BMW dealer or the Triumph dealer. I bought my last Buell from Carson City HD (along with a bagger) and built a bike thru them. Unfortunately they are less competent than Reno and have a employee turnover rate like no dealership I have ever seen. I have taken it in the butt for the last time at Carson City (lost parts, non ordered parts, excessive wait for anything) and the service after the sale sucks. Result of all this bullshit= I am just gonna ride the piss outta my 12s and the bikes I have. I am going to prey that Buell splits from the mother company. Besides, I don't really want to pay13K for a bike that has a resale value of about 50% of what I paid. I might just wait till I can get a used one. The worst part about this is that HD doesnt give two shits about my customer satisfaction. Anyone notice there are more and more packs of ricerockets and less and less packs of HD's, hmmmmmmm THANKS BADWEBBERS FOR LETTING ME VENT! | ||
| Court |
That is unfortunately all too common. The USA has no lock in it either. I am currently working with a good customer and enthusiastic Bueller in Europe who has a similar, if not uglier, situation. This needs attention immediately. Harley-Davidson, as Dave Gess recently observed, may well be running head long toward a cliff. Current management, familiar with only the "pedal to the metal - proven H.O.G. methods" may be incapable of recognizing the course they are on or effectively planning and executing a change of course. There are folks within the company who have such capabilities. They are labeled as trouble makers and can generally be seen criticizing Buell as being "un-Harley-like". This challenge represents a key constraint to the next step in Buell success. I hope someone is doing more about it than I am aware of. I suspect it's difficult to implement "outside the box" thinking by recruiting from and subscribing to methods developed "within the box". It's a big deal. | ||
| Mike748 |
With the wealth of information available on the internet,the consumer now knows hundreds more about a product than the sales guys. In Europe KTM did a neat thing a few years ago where you could pre-order a superduke online and specify which dealer you would be picking the bike up from. With a hot bike like the 1125 it would be cool if something along those lines could be done. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I suspect it's difficult to implement "outside the box" thinking by recruiting from and subscribing to methods developed "within the box"." There's plenty of fresh ideas and people at Harley. Engineers and designers are from all over the nation and world. Management is where is needs to start. There's no reason why the new 1125 motor couldn't have been designed, engineered, developed and built right here in the US by Harley. Upper management has to look at Buell as a serious contributor to the Harley line-up. Only then will the employees. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Erik Buell should do a little tour and go to some dealerships in plain clothes and get a feel for what is happening at the customer/dealership level. And not just at the "good" dealerships that host Buell demo's and such. I bet 80% or more wouldn't even recognize him unless he told them his last name. I would further bet that at 90% of the HD only dealerships they wouldn't recognize him even after he told them his name. Am I wrong for thinking that, even if they don't sell Buell bikes, any HD dealership should atleast be able to get you parts and possible do some work for you? I've had dealerships tell me that they're not a Buell dealer, so they don't sell Buell parts. (Message edited by Not_Purple_S2 on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"I've had dealerships tell me that they're not a Buell dealer, so they don't sell Buell parts." I went into Milwaukee Harley about 4 months ago. They have the "Buell Service" sign above their garage doors. I asked about parts. "Nope, we're no longer a Buell dealer". I asked, "who's responsible for your building signs?" "The GM, they're taking that down this month". I was there last week, July 21 for a customer appreciation event, the sign was still hanging up. Personally, I feel the most under-used Buell/HD employee is the softlines designer. | ||
| Ceejay |
Not purple-A guy at our nearest dealer-that has a big Buell sign out front told me that I should look in the JC whitney catalog if I wanted an airbox. I politely thanked him, told him that it looks like he's doing well and left... | ||
| Jlnance |
Am I wrong for thinking that, even if they don't sell Buell bikes, any HD dealership should atleast be able to get you parts and possible do some work for you? I've had dealerships tell me that they're not a Buell dealer, so they don't sell Buell parts. Thats actually a separate issue. Non-Buell dealers can not order Buell parts or perform Buell warranty work. The logic is that no one would bother becoming a Buell dealer if they could get all the benefits for free. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Court made an important suggestion "this needs attention immediately" and I wholeheartedly agree. Mike748 said "with the wealth of information available on the internet,the consumer now knows hundreds more about a product than the sales guys" I also agree on this but if I was a salesman trying to make a living selling a product I would do the same thing. i.e. If I sold Buells, even occasionally, I would be on this website at least once a week to keep up with my occupation. I do not want to see either HD or Buell fail. Too many fine bikes they both produce for various markets and they are some of the best bikes in the world. BUT, SOMETHING has got to change. I'd like to see Willie G and Erik sit down, share a few brews, work things out to both their benefits and grow bigger and BETTER than ever. Possible? maybe, guess we will just have to wait and see. Are you two guys listening? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The fate of both companies doesn't lay in the hands of EB or Willy G I'm affraid. | ||
| Bads1 |
You went into Milwaukee HD and they don't sell Buell parts but they have a sign and they need to take it down??? Go to Hal's and and talk to Kirk the owner. He also own's Milwaukee HD.... did you know thay?? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
No Dana, I didn't. Maybe Kirk is "bringing the sexy back"? | ||
| Bads1 |
I didn't know it till this past Winter. They actually haven't sold Buell for a couple years now. You'd think that sign would be long gone. | ||
| Mikej |
...Hal's merged or acquired Wisconsin H-D out in Oconomowoc awhile back... Regardless, I wouldn't paint everyone with the same brush. And I'd hesitate saying "all sales people". I was just in another local shop here and spoke with one of the sales guys I know there on a customer basis, and he knew more about the 1125R than what's been factually posted to the site here. Had a nice talk with him about Buells while we were looking at something non-Buell. It's easy to say "all of them", but in doing so you include the good ones with the not so good, and that's not a good thing to do. I dare say that this winter there's liable to be a few snowball fights, should be real interesting how it all sorts out come Spring. IMHO, YMMV, ... IDK = = = = = (edited for, well, just because, can't say why,...) (Message edited by mikej on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Bads1 |
Ooop's Mike my Bad you are correct I confused the two. Sorry John. | ||
| Court |
Selling Buells is a bit like selling Apple Computers. In 1997 I wrote "9 Ways to Sell a Buell" following a visit to a Buell dealer (owned by a dentist) who swore it was impossible to sell Buell and point #4 was "seek out, establish, nurture and maintain a relationship with an enthusiastic Buell owner. They tend to be total gearheads who have memorized the manuals and sales literature and are sponges for information. Make use of these folks in your Buell sales effort. Nothing sells like pure unbridled enthusiasm" I stand by that today. In fact, I stand by what I wrote in Battle2Win in 1997 and some of the things that I said were essential for Buell's success. The dealer element hasn't been satisfactorily addressed yet. The time is right, the resources are there (although hidden in some ways like Dorothy's ability to get home) a the benefits now far outweigh the costs of "getting it right". Pure personal opinion on my part. As Reg has said in the past . . . some of us know how to fix this. It's clearer from a distance. | ||
| Mikej |
"(although hidden in some ways like Dorothy's ability to get home)" Interesting analogy. Sometimes simply waking up does wonders. Perhaps Buell can come out with a keychain with an alarm clock on it and 1125R on the clock face, that'd be neat. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"The dealer element hasn't been satisfactorily addressed yet." It should be simple. If you sell Harley, you'll sell Buell. The flip side of this would be that Buell has to make alot more bikes to fill those dealers. From what I heard, thats been the biggest knock for them. Dealers have to set aside "x" amount of room for Buell, and after they sell those 8 bikes, they're left with empty floor space. | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
Court- "seek out, establish, nurture and maintain a relationship with an enthusiastic Buell owner. They tend to be total gearheads who have memorized the manuals and sales literature and are sponges for information. Make use of these folks in your Buell sales effort. Nothing sells like pure unbridled enthusiasm" Funny you should say that. I took a good friend to a Buell shop and damn near sold her on a XB9R. But as we were there for about a 1/2 hour talking about, inspecting, and gesturing excitedly at the only XB9R in the shop without even being spoken too by a salesperson, we left with me telling her to keep it in mind. If a salesman had come up and actively tried to make the sale I'd say he would have had a very good chance of selling the bike. A month or so after that she bought a new yamaha from a dealership where she'd already had a good experience. } | ||
| Davegess |
"The dealer element hasn't been satisfactorily addressed yet." "It should be simple. If you sell Harley, you'll sell Buell." That has been tried with dismal results. First you really can't make a dealer take Buell legally if they don't want it. Second if you can entice them to sign up by offering more of the big buck Harleys if they sigh up you end up with a bunch of dealers who do a lousy job with Buells. Bad sevice, salespeople who don't care at all. I actually hurts Buell more than helps and is the reason they have gotten the bike out of a bunch of places they that didn't care. They need to get them out of some more. Any dealer that 8 Buells and really wanted more would be able to get them. All they have to do is order them. Buell is making a bout 12000 bikes a year and half of those stay in the USA. that is about 8 bikes per HD dealer. No dealership is going to invest in for 8 bikes. By reducing the number of dealers to say 150 you get 40 bike to each dealer which is a big enough number to get their interest. Buell has room to make more bikes, they are only one shift a day I think, BUT remember what happened to H-D when AMF cranked up the production line? The quality fell apart. Buell needs to grow at a pace they can support. Buell does need to fix the dealer issue and this bike will force that issue some more. If Buell has a bike is selling really well they have a lever to FORCE dealer to get better. You allocate bikes based on performance based on a defined metric that includes sales and service performance. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Dave has some very good points - the dealer has to WANT to sell Buell in order to do it right. I was talking with my GM last night while doing paperwork (end of the month, end of the finance promo coming...) and we speculated that it would be awesome if Buell allotted a specific 1125r unit as a "demonstrator" bike for the dealer, much the way HD does. HD requires us to keep a certain number of each family as demos, for test rides, and keep them in-fleet for six months. If they are sold and not replaced with a like model, we're penalized next time around and get less demos. We both think this bike is going to completely change the face of Buell as far as the consumer and the market is concerned. I'm fortunate enough to work at a dealer that is "Buell-friendly". I really hope we can step up to the demand that we all see coming, and make sure to take care of the customers. It may even keep me in Sales, instead of my planned switch to Service (where I've received more training, when I worked for Chrysler). I think the main difficulty about HD dealers selling Buell successfully is this: HD buyers are more fashion-conscious and concerned about trends, looks, and the "chopper" invasion (to note, the new "Rocker"). Buell buyers are - as stated above - total gearheads and sponges for information. We care more for function and capability than for form in most areas and can recite more specifications and information off the top of our heads than most salespeople can with a book in front of them. Most HD salespeople don't know how to handle the in-depth technical nature of most Buell shoppers' questions. We aren't trained on suspension theory and basic physics (i.e. Trilogy of Tech) in HD school. We're trained for chrome, custom paint, and extended warranty. (that's an over-simplification, of course, but you get the idea). Buell buyers demand more. They / we demand the kind of information that's only readily available in shops that sell similar motorcycles - performance bikes, with more of a "rider interface" than "let's put some chrome here, some polish there, and trailer it out to a bike event". We tune our bikes; we set up our suspensions; we change our own tires; we install our own accessories. That being said, the training *is* in place. It's not being utilized properly. In 2006 I went to Back to the Track II in Vegas. 3 days: Dyna, VRSC, Buell. Day 1 and 2, probably 150-200 salespeople in attendance, max capacity. Day 3 (Buell): maybe (MAYBE) 50 folks. We got tons of track time, LOL. The training was awesome and the factory guys were the best...but there weren't enough folks soaking up the knowledge. Unfortunately, I don't know how to fix that part. Right now I'm too busy hammering my GM to send me to our 1125r training session!! | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Simple solution - Take Buell out of Harley, and put it in Independent sport bike shops, where the customers and salespeople understand sport bikes. Now that Buell has a complete line of attractive models, this should be more feasible than it was just 5 years ago. Let select Harley dealers that really want to, sell Buell as well. There are some excellent Harley/Buell dealers out there, like Liberty, Hals, Stone Mountain, but there are too few of them. Most Harley dealers will be very happy with this arrangement as they really look at the whole Buell thing as a pain, and resent being forced to carry a product that is the opposite of everything they stand for, and is much less profitable than their main line of business. As Court himself says: "This needs attention immediately". | ||
| Court |
>>>>"It should be simple. If you sell Harley, you'll sell Buell." In theory that's nice. In practice it sort of becomes "If you sell Harley, you'll HAVE Buell." That, in the unknowing hands of a former Holiday Rambler dude is kinda what exacerbated this pickle. Don't get me wrong, it was a problem before. But, in a failed attempt to fix it, it got make much larger and worse. Disease is much harder to cure than to prevent. It's fixable. I enjoy Einstein and no one said it better. . .
It will require a business strategy as innovative as sticking a muffler under the bike or a brake disc on a rim. Buell, for the first time in the history of the company, has the right people in the right places to ascribe this "disease" the import it merits. I think in the past Buells had a tank full of heart and engineering talent. It's now matched with executive leadership. This bodes well for all of us. It's important for us, as owners, to provide "data points" with good accurate accounts. I have, in the past couple days, received reports of very similar dealer problems, really ugly ones, in two different languages. Americans may rest easy that they've not been singled out. In the meantime, since every Ox in the yoke needs to pull, I'd suggest folks patronize, purchase and participate at the "good" dealers. We, collectively, have at least some power to make the carrot bigger. Buell should attack this problem like their future depends on it . . . it does. Court (Message edited by court on July 30, 2007) | ||
| Thin_air |
I feel better knowing Court read my post. It really does need some attention. After I posted it occured to me like I was bashing both dealers in my area. In fairness Carson City has a salesman or chrome consultant (not really sure what they are calling him) named Walt. He is a GREAT guy and a Buell freak. Had a nice tuber when I met him a couple of years ago and now rides a Uly. He has even brought in more Buell stuff (like shirts and apparel) to Carson City HD. He is a great rep. for both HD and Buell. The problem is Walt doesn't run the show. He has even told me that the owner of that dealership (he owns three dealerships) was considering dropping the Buell line completely. Given that and the turnover rate for this dealership along with the other problems I mentioned makes me nervous about buying from them hence my trip to Reno. Walt is a great example of good employee, bad company. I think that Buell is very lucky that their customers are so passionate about their bikes. TA | ||
| Davegess |
The whole Buell dealer thing is a topic that raises my hackles. Look at what BMW has done. 100,000 bike a year are sold in the USA. They have a loyal following. How far is to your nearest BMW dealer? How about the ones in second and third place? There are 4 near Chicago but 6 Buell dealers. BMW sells 10 times the nunber of bikes as Buell. Does this make any sense? NO. Buell needs at most 2 Chicago dealers, 1 Milwaukee etc. If Buell could this year move sales form 12000 units to 20000 units AND make each dealer transaction a positive one they would be well on the way to giant success. | ||
| Ironhead1977 |
Why do so many folks have delicate sensibilities? Maybe alot of the problems are self inflicted. I suspect alot of folks think just because they walk into the front door someone should be there to roll out the red carpet.Look, most Harley dealerships have mature men working and if you want to be mothered you need to go somewhere else. I don't mean to offend anyone, I just get tired of all the whining and crying. I'm so mistreated and the bad Harley man is mean. Grow up and act like you got a pair! | ||
| Not_purple_s2 |
I don't want to be mothered, I just don't want to be treated like I just rode up and asked them to to work on a honda. | ||
| Jaimec |
Dave... BMW seems to be in the business of CLOSING motorcycle dealerships these days. We used to have two here on Long Island. We now have NONE. My dealer of over twenty years was told his shop didn't meet BMW standards, so his franchise was revoked. As long as he is still there to work on my K1200LT, I'll hang on to it. Once he decides to pack it in and retire, I'm trading it in for a Victory Vision. I'm done with BMW. | ||
| Davegess |
BMW is upgrading shops to make them more suitable [alces to drop 215 grand. they want stand alone high end shops. Can't really fault them, some deaers don't want to invest the money. | ||
| Dick |
That's nothin just called my local Buell dealer friday to just ask about the new 1125R and the sales bozo that took my call said (huh what new bike)totaly disgusting. |
