| Author | Message | ||
     Altima02 |
Well you can't please everyone. I think this is just what the Buell lineup needs, something to draw in another crowd, and give some credability to the name. Everyone, every magazine, gets caught up on the old engine. With this new bike, it shows just how serious Buell is. I think it is a perfect track/race bike. But I think the XB's are still great street bikes. I don't see him getting rid of them. I don't know, but this is a huge step forward, and if you don't like the new bike, then you will still be able to find plenty of XB's for sale, so cheer up. | ||
| New12r |
Just think how fun this discussion will be once we introduce FACTS. I am waiting on the phone call from the dealer show!! Then I can make more accurate statements! | ||
| Thepup |
Hogs,it is a big deal.Those numbers are a little higher than the Ducati 999 and the Aprilias. (Message edited by thepup on July 08, 2007) | ||
| S1eric |
Just think how fun this discussion will be once we introduce FACTS. I gave ya 5 stars on that one. I`m looking forward to here more info on how this new engine came about. I`ll bet they had fun trying to meet the parameters set forth by Erik & Co. Hmmmmmm How much input did EB have in the new design ? More info PLEASE. Oh yea some still shots would be nice. S1Eric | ||
| Trojan |
Trojan, As my post states, I`m very Surprised that "YOU" would say drop the Sportster Engine Why? I have no sentimental reason to want to keep the old Sportster motor at all. I want a Buell sportsbike. The Sportster engine has been passed it's best for a while now, and whilst Buell have done a stirling jonb of squeezing 100bhp out of it, it has been pretty obvious since the launch of the XB 5 years ago that it needed a new motor to reach it's full potential. The Sportster derived motor, even in heavily reworked XBRR form, is not going to be competitive against any of the other modern litre V-Twins, and the new motor is just what Buell needed. To say it is no longer a Buell is like saying that Triumps are no longer Triumph because they no longer use an asthmatic and leaky OHV parallel twin designed in 1930. Changing, improving and evolving to keep up with the times is what separates profitable companies from those that go to the wall. If you don't like the new bike nobody will force you to buy one. Personally I will be on the 'phone Monday morning to order mine  My only concern is how quickly we can get them over here in the UK. When the original XB, and later the Ulysses, were launched it took another 3 months for us to take delivery despite ordering as soon as they were released to the public. | ||
| Fl_a1a |
Altima02 That's a good point, but the XBs I see in the used bike shops around Daytona, FL get snatched up in a day or two. But I have a feeling that people will hold on to their XBs (self adjusting valves rock) and just add the new breed to their existing stable ( I for one like the idea I can get v-twin performance way under Ducati prices ). (Message edited by fl_a1a on July 08, 2007) | ||
| Teeps |
Court Posted on Sunday, July 08, 2007 - 08:44 am: Just think how fun this discussion will be once we introduce FACTS. Don't confuse this thread with the facts... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Hogs, Erik used what was AVAILABLE for the XB platform. I don't think there is a person on the planet given a completely clean slate to design the engine of their choice who would CHOOSE to use the Sportster engine. Yes it was the historical engine of use but I think you ascribe betrayal where none exists. There is nothing to prevent further refinements of the Sportster engine and retention of it within the Buell line-up, but in order for Buell to have a bike that was allowed to compete (not able to but be allowed to), the displacement needed to come DOWN as HP went up. GO 1200cc's for two cylinders! Racing has both benefits in R&D as well as marketing. I would say that marketing is the bigger payoff. Were Buick to sponsor a NASCAR team and win, individuals who would never have looked at a Buick might do so. Same with Buell. I believe Buell created one of the greatest bikes possible using the Sportster engine. I do NOT believe the Sportster engine is the best engine available. I believe the XBRR on the track has been more difficult to make durable than would be practical on the street for the average consumer. FX further racing and development may yield durability secrets allowing it to become "streetable". | ||
| Hogs |
LoL... I have to Smile here as if it was just not in the past year or two all them Sponsors included within here talking up of the XBRR now say So What for the old Sportster engine... Oh well have at it...This is as much as the roots of Buell as a Volkswagen is to a Ford... Call it what ya will ,But it has no Buell/ H.D. roots What is on it now that has been related to the H.D. Buells Nothing except the last few years of the frame design etc,. But still maintaining the Sportster background so call it a Buell now HA Whos engine is it etc etc.. and just how much of that was design especially different for " Buell " Time will tell soon now.. I think Buell has let alot of ppl. down here with this new engine and to think HEY Now Watch out for the Buells at the Track against all the JAp Tech. and Duc`s is another joke.. Sure let him build this creation but to drop the HArley Engine IF he does 100 percent then this My friend is a bad day for BUell roots  | ||
| Curtyd |
"These Numbers are Not that Impressive to me so who cares they rev to 10,400 rpms.. " I guess the shortshifting and revlimiter never bothered this guy much. Sounds like one of the "faithful" tooling around on his 800lb "hotrod" | ||
| Vanvideo |
Well, Hogs, you can always buy a Sportster if you're so endeared to that engine. There's nothing wrong with liking the air-cooled twin motor. I would imagine it brought you to the Buell fold. Personally, I like my 9R a lot - but I definitely look forward to this new bike. I'll tell you what makes a Buell, a Buell - some guy named Erik Buell, no matter what engine he uses in his bikes. Just curious - do you consider the V-Rod a true Harley? You know, with that liquid-cooled engine that had some development input from some European firm. | ||
| Court |
Hogs: For whatever comfort it may be . . . I'll be headed straight for the air cooled 2008 Ulysses. I have a toolbox full of different tools for different tasks. Part of wisdom is knowing which to deploy at a given time. Court | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Hogs, I can't stop laughing when you say ERIK BUELL should have made this bike under another branding or name. I would think anything Mr. Buell released would be something he wanted his name on, I know for one if I am proud of something I would want my stamp of approval on it and what better way then to put your name on it. From what I have read above you are pretty pissed that he did this and think he will lose sales. Why? I haven't heard anything about discontinuing the XB line, have you. I think this will only be good for Buell, if you would not buy an XB because the company introduced a new bike with a different motor , well that just doesn't make sense. I don't see the company losing one sale but only putting another notch on their belt for a new customer base that said they would never buy Buell. You should be happy, now you can have your sportster based bike and the liter and duc riders can have their watercooled high hp bike. I only see good coming from this. | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Hogs: You are comparing Japanese inline 4 numbers with V twin numbers I think, other than the Ducati of course. You really can't because twins tend to produce less peak horsepower, but more torque. Instead, compare this to a Honda RC51 or something like that. | ||
| Hogs |
Curtyd, I guess the short shifting and rev limiter never bothered this guy much. You are RIGHT, I guess I know how to ride it seems compare to you... Sounds like one of the "faithful" tooling around on his 800lb "hotrod" And to this statement of yours,Not sure what ya mean.. but perhaps you just got your first bike right out of High school are ya, Since I Probably have had more Motorcycles especially Harleys than years you have been on this planet... And VanVideo, I never owned a Sportster always big twins, Top Fuel HArleys, Strokers etc, But Guess you may not know what any of that means, I bought a Buell as I have always like the concept he had, and the Xb series did it for me with the Harley Engine concept... As YOU say I'll tell you what makes a Buell, a Buell - some guy named Erik Buell, no matter what engine he uses in his bikes. I think that is as far from the truth that can be... Unless YA got something going for the Guy???? Just curious - do you consider the V-Rod a true Harley? You know, with that liquid-cooled engine that had some development input from some European firm The answer to this is "NO" Isn`t it strange I have to defend my Opinion from being shot down , Just because others have different frame of minds...  | ||
| Curtyd |
".. but perhaps you just got your first bike right out of High school are ya," How did you guess? I DID get my first bike in high school, a Yamaha 80... Class of "72", been riding full time mostly since 1982. "Since I Probably have had more Motorcycles especially Harleys than years you have been on this planet... " He probably has had more HDs, does NOT mean he spent more miles actually riding, probably has a good strong V8 pick-um-up around somewhere for those 'riding' days. I have only met a small handful of the "faithful" who actually RIDE to Daytona every year. | ||
| Hogs |
Court, Nice.... 2008 Ulysses Thansesxb9rs, What I was getting at is, IF he Drop the Sportser Engine Design 100 percent and replace it with this new concept engine NOT HD... What IF H.D. all of a sudden had nothing but V-RODS Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm???????  | ||
| Vanvideo |
Thanks, Hogs, you answered my questions. Yes, I do know the difference between a Sportster engine and a big twin engine. I used the Sportster reference because the XB engine was based (loosely) on that motor, not the bigger Harley v-twins. Following the logic here? And I stand by my statement. A Buell is a Buell because of the man who invented them. It's got his name on it. What direction he chooses for his brand of bikes to go is his decision entirely. I don't have a "thing" for the man, but I have met him and he is an intelligent, accomplished individual, regardless of your homophobic stance. Plus, he's a genuinely nice person. I'm not knocking your love of air-cooled v-twins. I just disagree with your premise that going to a liquid-cooled engine will make this bike any less of a "genuine" Buell. My favorite Harley is the Night Rod Special, hands down. Uh oh, am I anti-Harley? | ||
| Hogs |
VanVideo, Word is as you may... You just don`t get it... What IF H.D. all of a sudden had nothing but V-RODS Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm??????? Now Do ya think HArley Davidson Would lose sales??? I'll tell you what makes a Buell, a Buell - some guy named Erik Buell, no matter what engine he uses in his bikes. NExt time then Think about how ya say it... | ||
| Vanvideo |
What if HD made only V-Rods? Then I'd say... Welcome to the 21st Century!!!! WOO-HOO!!!! Would HD lose sales? Sure they would. Will Buell lose sales because of the 1125R? Oh, I doubt it. My guess is, they increase sales, and even more importantly, build a bigger fan base. Riders buy Buells for different reasons than riders buy Harleys. I'll go on a limb and state that Buell buyers are more interested in performance and handling from their machines than are your typical Harley buyer. That's why many of us invite the increased performance from the 1125R, regardless of its engine's point of origin. | ||
| Blake |
What is "RwT"?  | ||
| Curtyd |
I have always called my Buell the "Sportster for the 21st Century". I think HD could have marketed it that way, but frankly HD markets the "retro" styling and image. Why else would some of these folks so adamantly oppose a clean sheet design better spec motor? Because they can ride their air cooled BUELLS around their HD buddies and point to the motor to defend their choice. Otherwise the same old crap starts spewing out of their 'unprotected noggins'. Probably bounced their heads off a little too much asphalt. I've always asked for HD to sell me a street legal flatracker at 300lbs or so, but they can't do that either. Their core market has to start with bikes tipping the scales at 600 lbs plus a hundred or so, sort of like some of their riders. They have tightened up the design and quality control so that their buyers don't spend all their 'ridin' time wrenching by the side of the road the way they used to have to. But the "HOGS" are right, their identity is so all tied up with air-cooled V-Twins, black leather, tattoos and 'flashin' female types to ever market anything else to them. Wanna bet every Buell HOGS has ever owned has only been black? No yellows, blues or reds I'll bet! "Sissy" colors and all that. I didn't start the name calling here, but I'll sure jump in every time someone else starts it. (Message edited by CURTYD on July 08, 2007) | ||
| Mcgiver |
I'm thinking some of the people that assume that Buell will drop the air cooled line, are not giving Buell a chance. Erik and his people are NOT STUPID! The xb's will continue to evolve and sell for many years. Brian | ||
| Doerman |
This sort of reminds me of the time BMW brought out the K bikes. All BMW faithfuls were up in arms over the change. What did BMW do... went and improved the opposed twin and enjoyed great sales success with two different engine platforms. So yes, a new engine platform is a big deal for Buell; us - the current customers, but more importantly, prospective customers. I suspect it will propel BMC forward quite nicely. | ||
| Thespive |
Shut up already! You guys are clearly from different frames of mind fanning the flames against eachother, we get it, you don't agree - and that is okay. Erik has a clear vision for his brand, and he finally has the resources to execute it. For those of us (like me) that enjoy the sound/experience/character of the air cooled lumps, we'll still have our bikes, while the guys who want to chase Ducatis and Hondas down, will have thiers. And we'll all still be Buell riders. We don't know what this new engine is. Court seems to hint at homegrown roots. While water cooling may not be right for all Buell riders, it will advance the brand and give us more credibility in the market place. The important thing is that the new bike doesn't water down (no pun intended) the Buell experience, heritage, or individuality. While we are all making assumptions and guesses right now, it will be some time before we know what effect the new bike has on the brand, but one thing is for sure, I haven't seen this many people this excited about the brand in a long time (although the Uly release came close). --Sean (Message edited by thespive on July 08, 2007) | ||
| Cgocifer |
Buell needed to enter world-class racing to build a stronger reputation. Race on Sunday, sell bikes on Monday. Buell needs this! Without a competitive motorcycle, Buell may not have survived much longer, then where would we all be? In line at H/K/Y/D/... I'm sure the air-cooled bikes will remain. The Uly, TT, and S models will mostlikely remain just as the Ducati Monsters and Multistrada has. I am happy for Buell and America. I probably won't be able to afford one of these new bikes, but I'll be rooting them on every chance I get! | ||
| Frequency |
FACTS! Did the Germans need facts when they bombed Pearl Harbor! Hell NO!!! Dude Im owed a keyboard ROFL | ||
| Thespive |
Buell may not have survived much longer... I am not so sure this is accurate, Buell, especially in Europe, has been doing quite well with the XB line, however, I do agree some updates would be needed. --Sean | ||
| Ridetherejk |
Why does this always have to happen. When a company releases a all new idea, the purist have to cry about tradition. A liquid cooled Buell is no less a Buell as a modern H-D is from 1923 H-D. Yeah, yeah, they're both air cooled twins, but that's about it. Just get over it. Times change. Do you want want to go back to horse and buggy? Maybe we can get Ford just to keep building the Model T. Would that make you happy? | ||
| Hogs |
There ya go... I`ll take the front end and braking system, The rest YuKKKKKKKKKKK Ugly,... and them air intakes man what was he thinking... Now just remember just my Opinion... SOme Glad to see the XB 12 series had some new mods... But Keep that other unit for the track, someday it may keep up to the japs, and just maybe the Duc`s  |
