| Author | Message | ||
     46champ |
Racing world superbike was a mistake taking an almost stock bike to race almost prototypes was foolhardy. It made as much sense as taking a handgun to a rifle fight. | ||
| Hughlysses |
^ While last season was miserable, they were making reasonable progress in WSBK this year before the plug got pulled. I don't know if they used what they learned last year, if they just had the right people working on the bikes this year, or if Canepa was that big of a help, but I think top-10 finishes were in the realm of possibility by the end of the season. | ||
| Figorvonbuellingham |
They were finishing ahead of BMW.... | ||
| Whistler |
If memory serves Hero sponsored all but maybe the very first race efforts and therefore was maybe not much of a dollar drain to EBR, in fact Hero sponsored racing may have been profitable to EBR. Racing was part of the three legged stool wasn't it? That reminder to myself aside, one could question the marketing benefits of seemingly racing alone at that (or this) point in the company's sales progression. And yes, my opinion and a buck fifty might get you a cup of coffee. Sometimes I forget that it was Erik's company, his preferences, his calls. | ||
| Classax |
I not arguing the merit of racing WSBK or not (although they seemed to be making respectable progress with a WSBK caliber rider aboard and a team that actually knew how to assemble the engines correctly) I'm emphatically stating the failed to control the narrative. To use the the quite colorful analogy above taking a handgun to a rifle fight is foolhardy unless you marketing people explain that the your hand gun will do most of what the rifles will do will less cost, maintenance accessibility. They are actually competitive at the club level where most of their customers actually are. The work they did in development in WSBK didn't really have a bearing on that but it did prove the bikes were near race ready. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I'm emphatically stating they failed to control the narrative. Of all things about EBR's fall that's the most baffling to me. I'm hoping someday somebody will shine some light on that mystery. | ||
| Robertl |
Not that I am a fan of Nascar but that isn't that where the "race it on sunday, sell it on monday" theory came from? Last time I checked Nascar was pretty successful? Racing is advertising. In the street bike world, a reputation is needed to gain attention? Much of the technology from racing makes it way back to the street in some way or another, even tires. EBR took what they had available and built from that. Very impressive what the accomplished in those years, where a lot of what they learned was from the race track. This was a long term, probably 5 yr or more plan, not 1-2 years. I've read some very harsh statements on here the past few months. From Bruce's few posts, it appears they understand where some of the misses were and will be addressing those, if things work out after the most recent news. I look forward to something positive from this. | ||
| Buelliedan |
Bruce acknowledged that he too felt the WSBK effort was not a direction he felt the company should have taken on. | ||
| Nobuell |
The EBR platform would never be competitive WSBK with the current motor configuration. It is just not capable of the HP required to be consistently competitive in it's current form. I believe this years season would have seen ragged edge riding to try and make up the HP deficit resulting in lots of crashes and blown motors. I have never understood why EBR or Hero would want to pursue it in the manner that they did. Why not compete in the stock class if marketing a near standard bike was their goal. I suspect the EB relied on marketing people that did not understand his vision or just plain screwed him. Nothing makes sense on the approach otherwise. I hope EBR can be resurrected from the ashes. It seems to me it gets less likely as time goes on. I would be reluctant to buy a new EBR and I am a Buell faithful. There will be a lot of baggage to be moved out of the way to sell to the unknowing masses. To many things are stacking up against them. I look forward to and hopefully will be proven wrong in this case. | ||
| Milar |
Outside of this group Buell is a very damaged brand. My riding friends have a negative view of the product. So do dealers, vendors etc. I'm not sure if the name "Buell" isn't as much a negative as it is a positive at this moment. Rather than spend time and money in an attempt to overcome a negative image why not just start fresh. Create a new, positive image. 1. Rebrand with a new name. Just for conversation let's call the new company "Lightning Motorcycle." 2. Bring in a design firm, or designer, to refresh the product. New styling, maybe some updated engineering. Enough changes to differentiate it from the old product. 3. Start a new "Lightning Motorcycles" dealer network. Some old dealers might pick up the line. Find some new dealers with no grudges or prejudices. Fresh face, fresh start. "Rising from the ashes of the old Buell a new company with new ideas and a new committment." The idea will be hated here, but the buying public might give them a fresh look. Mike | ||
| Steveford |
Why were sales tepid? The majority of the Buell faithful (that's us) aren't looking for a street legal road racer that will do around 200 MPH (or whatever it is) and costs $17K. The general motorcycle buying public may not have even been aware that there was such a bike and most likely have never seen one in person. | ||
| Needforspeed |
As with anything; I believe that there are a few different groups within this group. Some do want a true Superbike with lights. It needs to be race competitive. I did not look at Buell until the 1125R which I purchased because those other bikes where not really superbike caliber bikes. I have had a ball with my Buell 1125R on the street and at the track. We also want something made in America that is a bit different than the Japan and European stuff. The price was a bit high compared to what you got from Europe for the same money; but, that can be expected due to it's exclusivity of the product. I have purchased an 1190RX and love the bike and hope to get it to the track next year. | ||
| Midknyte |
What is this marketing that you all keep speaking of? Seriously - we've had zilch. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"I suspect the EB relied on marketing people that did not understand his vision or just plain screwed him. Nothing makes sense on the approach otherwise. " Lots of fingers pointed, but one direction remains untouched/not pointed at... | ||
| Thumper1203 |
Lots of fingers pointed, but one direction remains untouched/not pointed at... Concur.. shhh.. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Another article with more quotes from Bruce: http://www.bizjournals.com/milwaukee/news/2015/11/ 17/sale-of-erik-buell-racing-falls-through-second. html It sounds like he expects to pay less this time. | ||
| Jon |
I wish Bruce success and will be asking the Lord to help him succeed. Setbacks like this are frustrating and require steely patience and the endurance of staying the course. If he secures EBR again, I will send him a present. | ||
| Rsh |
In my opinion, Some of the biggest reasons the EBR's did not sell well is because of following. 1. Price 2. Low tech electronic aids compared to other manufacturers for price point 3. Mediocre fit and finish for price point 4. Same cheap switch gear as 2003 for price point 5. Perceived unreliability. 6. Poor dealer network. 7. Perceived quirky technology (ZTL) 8. Runners up or honorable mention status in reviews 9. Equipment issue's during magazine test's 10. Poor race performance in race series that matter. AMA, WSBK 11. Poor marketing If the company is ever resurrected changes would need to be made to address the issues above. Some totally in your face marketing plan needs to be generated to get the message out there. I remember seeing Buell TV commercials on Speed Channel years ago when speed showed the AMA races, It was the "Own the Corners" campaign. The only EBR commercial is/was an Amzoil commercial that basically said if EBR didn't use Amzoil our engines would fail. The Buell faithful which are limited numbers were not enough to keep EBR in business. The demographic is to old to want to buy the product that was produced. With the issue's above EBR was not going to attract new blood. | ||
| Blake |
One man here has staked his own skin in the game, my old friend Daniel. Notice how he stands calm like his ancient namesake, not letting the beasts devour him. Once again, the wise words of Theodore Roosevelt seem appropriate. Theodore Roosevelt | ||
| Hughlysses |
4. Same cheap switch gear as 2003 for price point The EBR's do NOT use the same switch gear as Buells. | ||
| Stevel |
Nobuell, The EBR platform would never be competitive WSBK with the current motor configuration. It is just not capable of the HP required to be consistently competitive in it's current form. Exactly correct. However, we must be fair and recognize that the engine has never undergone any re-engineering to resolve issues like its competitors. It is not a bad or outdated design, but there are flaws that must be resolved to make it both competitive and reliable. This has not been done because EBR simply did not have the budget to do it. Once these issues are resolved, it will be just as competitive as Ducati, if not more so. I must agree with many of the posters here that EBR was not prepared for WSB and should never have tried. It really hurt their credibility and ultimately their sales. | ||
| Jon |
It's got to be back to the basics of design and rudeness. That's what sells, that's what matters. Scramblers are selling and don't need to compete in pro racing. They need to go back to get footing or forget it. | ||
| Elvis |
As long as we're Monday-morning quarterbacking, I'd put most of the blame on Hero and I'll explain why: The problem is not that nobody wants an EBR, they sold hundreds of bikes in a short time, the problem is short-term supply was ahead of short-term demand. If a wise, dedicated long-term partner had been involved, they would realize these things take time, and they would have been willing to lose money for the first several years as people became aware of the brand. As bikes stacked up at dealers, they should have cut back on production and increased marketing until demand caught up. Hero may not have been patient enough or wise enough . . . or, as some have suggested, they may have intentionally sabotaged things with the intention of buying Erik's shares cheap. But for whatever reason, Hero didn't finish what they started. No sane, rational, knowledgeable person or entity could have expected a start-up motorcycle company to be profitable (or a WSBK team to be successful)after barely over a year of production-bike sales. It's not clear at this moment if it was malfeasance, incompetence or simply a lack of long-term commitment on the part of Hero, but I'm ready to call it one of those. | ||
| Buelliedan |
"One man here has staked his own skin in the game, my old friend Daniel. Notice how he stands calm like his ancient namesake, not letting the beasts devour him." Blake, Are you referring to me? I actually staked a lot less skin than many of the other EBR dealers out there. Yes I will lose some on the deal but it is the dealers with 5-6 bikes still sitting on their floor that I really feel bad for. (Message edited by buelliedan on November 18, 2015) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Easy to blame. Maybe the problem with both Buell and EBR is that there is, roughly, a 1 in 100,000,000 million chance that any attempt to start a new and successful motorcycle company can be successful. | ||
| Blake |
Dan, Yes you. Good to know you were smart in the business. | ||
| Panshovevo |
Thanks Blake, without a doubt, the best and most appropriate thing written here, IMHO. | ||
| Buelliedan |
thanks Blake, My biggest issue now is what to do with the extra space we have if we are not selling bikes. I bought a new shop specifically for EBR sales so I need to find something to replace them. | ||
| Sprintst |
Does anyone really buy a Chevy or Toyota based on NASCAR??? I mean geeze, Nascar cars can't drive in the rain, can't turn right, lose control and fly in the air, and have zero parts in common with what you can actually buy!!! lol | ||
| Midknyte |
Not me. All my cars turn left and right...  (Message edited by midknyte on November 18, 2015) |
