| Author | Message | ||
     Sprintst |
http://lanesplitter.jalopnik.com/erik-buell-racing s-death-is-all-your-fault-1712321918 | ||
| 46champ |
Not a bad article. Read some of the comments same Oh same Oh pretty much proved the guys point. That brings up something. Where are the comparison tests. Hardly any for the RX and none for the SX. It is almost like the motorcycle media did not want to see an EBR finish well. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
yes, lets blame the media... | ||
| Pmjolly |
I bought the first red RX I could find as soon as they were released. It's not my fault. | ||
| Classax |
Not my fault either, bought the first Galactic Black in the Lonestar State AND paid full price. Purchased race ECU and various other parts as well. I'd like to go on record as saying that motojournalist are equally to blame in that they constantly promote latest highest HP bike as king instead of looking at how things work as a package.( I haven't ridden the new R1 on a track yet, but its not all that great a street bike, I should get my chance at MSRH next week) They also, to include this article, put out disinformation. As an owner I got a letter and contact information from the Receiver with whom I continue to keep contact. The author of the article has no way of knowing what level of interest there is in purchasing EBR yet he proclaims "there is little hope", which is contrary to what the Receiver seems to think. The EBR has not been included in a single multi bike shoot out simply because all the leading rags held off to wait for the new 2015's. At worst on paper at least, the EBR would finish finished a strong third or slip to forth in a seven bike field. Even now in 2015 it specs out nearly the same or better as the world beating 2015 R1. | ||
| Ljm |
Not my fault either by 3. I agree with the article somewhat. We are stuck, among riders, and to include motojournalists with the "we're not worthy" syndrome. As long as they are more inclined to fawn over the newest hondayamazuki, or have fried their eggs on the european offering and now don't notice, this bike will never get a fair shake either on the street, or in the reviews. | ||
| Steveford |
While it's true that the bikes only got First Impression road tests, I didn't buy one because I need a two up, do everything motorcycle and I think a lot of us are in the same situation. For what I need the EBR models were too specialized to even be a consideration. It's like looking at a Porsche Boxster and then going, let's be honest, I need a pick up truck to haul crap around and 4WD for the snow and one that gets good gas mileage. Maybe they did have one in the pipeline with hard bags, good weather protection and a flat, comfortable seat with ample leg room. If they had I would have been scheming on how to get one as I know it would outperform anything I've ever ridden by a considerable margin in every regard. Maybe there will be a Round 2 and we'll see them branch out a bit. | ||
| Hughlysses |
I was always under the impression that motorcycle test/comparisons went something like this: the magazine calls the manufacturer and asks them to send their latest super bike/naked/whatever over for them to try out. If you send a bike, it gets compared. IIRC Cycle World did a comparison between the 1190RX and a Ducati 1199. The Ducati BARELY came out on top regarding the performance numbers, but they were VERY close. Motorcyclist did a comparison of the KTM 1290 Superduke and an 1190SX. IIRC, the numbers were for all practical purposes dead-even, but they liked the KTM slightly better for purely subjective reasons. I wonder if EBR missed out on some comparison tests because they didn't or couldn't send a bike? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
so there were comparison tests? Guess that rules out that reason why EBR failed. | ||
| Roaldnelson |
If what I've read about the EBR/Hero contract and events is correct, EBR folded because they didn't get the $20 mil cash influx they were supposed to get from Hero. That $20M would have covered the $18M shortfall that forced Erik into receivership. Or am I confused? For the record, I bought an SX last week without seeing any comparisons by magazines, etc. It seems to me that main stream motorcycle pundits never have had positive things to say about Erik's work, or very little anyway. Screw the pundits. I'll ride my Tubers and the SX, have fun, and ignore the magazines | ||
| Court |
Ignoring the magazines would be prudent. Most of the information is speculative based on ill informed guesses. | ||
| Classax |
A multi bike shoot is not the same as a comparison test. The SX lost to the Superduke on subjective reasons is right! Mainly it was the love of electronics that won out. The Panigale vs RX test was essentially tied, and that means the RX would have come in Third behind the S1KRR and 1199 based on past MULTI bike test which certainly would have changed the narrative on the bikes quite a bit. | ||
| Rsh |
IIRC, In the comparison I viewed, one of the testers said the 1290 Super Duke was the nicest bike he has ridden in 25 years. Thats seems quite the statement considering all the bikes they get to ride/test. Another test comment was something like if you can have only one bike, the 1290 Super Duke is the one. | ||
| Ljm |
So, about that price vs. value comparison. A funny thing happened on the way through Washington. A guy sold me a Triumph 675R track bike, Olins suspension, power commander, aftermarket slipper clutch, race plastics, shorty levers, two sets of wheels with track tires, one set new, zero gravity screen, steering damper, two brothers exhaust, top end build, track stands, quick change brake lines, quick bleed brake system, case covers, swingarm, case, fork sliders and all stock part (except he lost the headlight assemblies somewhere along the way). Got it for a song. It is built to be a track weapon. MSRP on the bike new: $13,500. Cost of upgrades and extras, approx. $5,000. O.k., so we proved I am stupid. But what else is evident: That a bike that is built for the track that someone has invested a ton from showroom building is not half the bike that the RX and SX are at an equivalent cost or less. Don't get me wrong. It is a great bike. Rides like it is on rails, torque like you would expect from a built middleweight bike (lots less than I am used to). Clutch is like butter. And for the price, I can break it and walk away. So, why are they selling these, and yet people complain about paying the same (or less) for a bike that is head and shoulders above it? I don't get it. | ||
| Bartimus |
I admit it, IT'S ALL MY FAULT! I have no need for a street legal race bike, so I did not purchase one. Instead I'm holding out for the perfect sport touring bike, since I tend to ride 500 mile days. | ||
| Tankhead |
Yes my fault. I wanted the AX that was never to be. | ||
| Oddball |
Ljm, The asking price when announced killed any interest for me and i payed it no attention until hearing of the closure. | ||
| Sprintst |
Well way back when it was the $40k bike only, I stated here that EBR needed to get on the electronics bandwagon. Whether we want electronics or not, that's what you need to play in the game today. I'll wager that's why Marzocchi is folding it's tent and getting out of the suspension business | ||
| Stevel |
Sprintst, I have a real hard time putting my life in the hands of a transistor, especially after Danny Pedrosa's high side last year when Marquez clipped his rear wheel speed sensor. In fact, electronics suffer severe availability issues when wanting replacements after only a few short years after manufacture. I am certain that electronics will continue to gain favor in the future with new bikes, but I won't be one that will buy them, if I can avoid it. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
So youre concerned that someone will hit your speed sensor and it'll malfunction? Think of how many racers use electronics and dont have that issue, and they are actually making contact at times. How often do any of us non-racers have contact that might affect the speed sensor? I'd guess its VERY rare. | ||
| Cmmagnussen |
Electronics are great for those who trade in their bikes every 3-5 years | ||
| Stevel |
Hybridmomentspass, You missed my points I think. 1) Spare replacement parts are and will be scarce for all electronic assemblies because electronic components change so rapidly that the manufacturing tooling becomes non-existent over a very short time and nobody invests more than the minimum for future component sales. 2) My Pedrosa example is to illuminate the results of a electronics failure with an electronic throttle. It does not have to be just a sensor failure. A mechanical failure results in an off condition. That is why there was an industry wide change from single cable to dual cable (push and pull) in the '60's. Sorry, if I was not clear. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Steve- I'm with you on this, although I have to concede it's a nebulous and fairly arbitrary point at which we consider a vehicle has "too much electronics". Solid state ignition systems were a vast improvement over breaker points, and I don't think any of us would want to go back from that. Fuel injection systems were a big improvement over carburetors, but we went from having a fairly complicated mechanical device to a vastly-complicated 'black box" to control the engine fueling. ABS, traction control, stability control, etc. seem to be a quantum leap in complication over what we've lived with up to now; maybe that's why some of us don't like them. | ||
| Oddball |
Isn't ABS becoming mandatory in a year or two for Europe? or maybe us? With all the systems mandated by the feds for vehicles, i can easily see them requiring ABS, traction and stability controls etc. The added complexity will have a corresponding increase in prices across the board to buy and maintain them. stevel, You have a point with availability of replacement controls for ones that fail. The further you get from the date of manufacture the worse it will likely be. Especially with lean/on time production there won't be much excess leftover. Perhaps that condition will create a market for companies to create universal or adaptable controls to work across brands? Or like the new production of muscle car/ pony car parts, some business will fill the void by continuing to make oem control designs? Yes, that hope would require a long lasting market which hasn't been the case for motorcycles the last half century. Latest and greatest ruled. Market maturity and lack of money to waste might induce an increase in the average length of ownership. | ||
| Stevel |
The difference between all the electronic systems Hughlysses mentioned and an electronic throttle is that the latter won't kill you if they fail, the throttle could. On the subject of electronic replacement parts. This affects all industries. Consider that the effective lifetime of manual mills, lathes and the like is 100 years. Yet in comparison, the life of CNC equipment is less than 20 yrs. This is a much bigger issue than just motorcycles and the issue of early obsolescence will only get worse. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Consider that the effective lifetime of manual mills, lathes and the like is 100 years. Yet in comparison, the life of CNC equipment is less than 20 yrs. But also consider that over that timespan, in production use, the CNC output will be thousands of times more than a manual machine. Also you can do things with a CNC that you would never even attempt with a manual machine G | ||
| Stevel |
Gregtonn, Yes, you are correct, but when these CNC machines are scrapped, it isn't because these machine mechanics are worn out to the point they could not be repaired economically. It is because the electronic controls can no longer be repaired or replaced. | ||
| Court |
In such problems there is often great opportunity to be found. I've started my business for precisely that reason ...... To address BIG problems on BIG projects that BIG contractors have tried and failed to solve I listened to folks griping about how these problems were costing millions. While some complained I incorporated and offered to solve the for $800k. If there are enough bikes out there, regardless of brand, to make the electronics obsolescence a problem.....someone will arrive with a solution. | ||
| Gregtonn |
It is because the electronic controls can no longer be repaired or replaced. We have hundreds of CNC machines where I work. I have never seen a machine scrapped for that reason. We have in fact converted some of the old manual machines to do simple tasks using CNC. G | ||
| Stevel |
Gregtonn, Out of curiosity, how old is your oldest CNC machine? (not converted manuals) |
