| Author |
Message |
    
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 05:58 am: | 
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Loki:
Let me know if you need any of the cush drive parts. The part number was in that photo above.
Court |
Benm2
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 07:26 am: |
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quote:When you break parts in a couple of laps that in other tests have gone hundreds of miles with no issues, it takes a lot of analysis to figure out what could be wrong.
Wow, engineering honesty! Given the number of times I've looked at a broken machine and asked myself "how the he** did THAT happen??!!", I empathize. Seems to make for bad press, not "knowing" why the doohickey broke, and maybe explains why such information is almost never shared publicly.
Interesting though that Superbikeplanet came HERE to get their fodder for their buell bashing. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 08:05 am: |
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"..first gear goes to about 90 mph..."
Wow, that is almost hard to conceptualize.
I'm wondering if a high RPM clutch dump on the starting line would spin the back tire with that kind of gearing?
I drag raced a stock Triumph a couple of time back in the early 60's and have never road raced so my terms of reference here are pretty irrelevant.
Jack |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 08:08 am: |
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Jack,
With gearing that tall, the answer is no. You either would stall or turtle! |
Gentleman_jon
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 08:44 am: |
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hmmmmmm..........
Maybe this is the stimulus that is needed to put the six gear speed box in the Buell?
That would be nice for everyone, racer and streetfighter alike.
 |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:12 am: |
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>>>>>Maybe this is the stimulus that is needed to put the six gear speed box in the Buell?
I'd sure stay clear of 6 speeds unless part of the race dictated running at very low speeds.
For those of you who aren't following this, try starting your bike, from a dead stop, in about 3rd, that'll give you a sense of the challenge. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:39 am: |
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Anony sez:
"Not to be confrontational, but are you being so?"
Definitely not! Shucks man, that was my first day on here and that is the last thing I was trying to be. Please excuse any statements that may have seemed so, as that was not my intent. I guess this is why several folks has prefaced their comments with something like, "I am not trying to start an argument here, but..."  !
From reading your posts, I understand that you are the resident inside expert on all things XBRR, so I am not trying to challenge your "street cred" . I thought I was just bringing up some valid points, with no disrespect meant.
I am no expert, but rather just a fan who likes to tinker with problems on my own bikes with knowledge I get from others. I have already learned a great deal about the XBRR that I never would have from any other source. My appreciation for the technical proficiency of those who designed this bike only escalates the more I learn.
I didn't even know that the XBRR had a cush drive in the clutch. So, being totally unfamiliar with it, I am in no position to be argumentative. I can only rely on my limited experience with my S1 Lighting Series race bike (and my 88's), that also had the sprocket bolted directly to the wheel. The XBRR is certainly no Lighting Series bike on steriods, or pumped-up former FX bike, for that matter.
I would really like to ride on the back of Jeremy's bike around the track a few times. Like I said, the fastest guys are the smoothest guys. I have been a fan of Jeremy McWilliams ever since I watched him in GP500. I can remember him on a 500 GP bike in one race where he was a full lap behind because of some reason beyond his control, and he was riding in 3rd position behind Rossi and someone (maybe Max) on their new Honda bikes for the last 3-4 laps, and he hung right with them. He was not challenging them (although he could have) and certainly did not want to get in the way, but he had the best seat in the house watching them spar. The announcers were going ape poop over it, saying "He should not be there and fall back", but I thought, "This guy can ride!".
I am here to learn, like the rest of us.
jimidan |
Race_pirate
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:42 am: |
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Jim- good points this pic is why I was questioning the crank/flywheel weight. A 45 degree crank like no other..... I have some experience with Sportster and Big Twins, but this pic made me feel kinda funny inside...
As far as riding, my style changed dramatically after getting two years on a 2 stroke. I dont fiddle with the clutch going into corners, so I cant comment. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:47 am: |
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WHAT ABOUT THE "CUSH DRIVE" on the 1957 XL
Sportster(MOTOR SPROCKET) ??? |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:55 am: |
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Davegess sez:
"BTW I have to agreee that Jeremy was amazing. Watching him and tracking his lap times over the week does make it clear that AMA racing is clearly minor league stuff compared to MotoGP or World Superbike."
I am not trying to start an argument here, but I respectfully disagree with part of your observation. I think MotoGP is clearly in another league, as it was intended to be by racing only prototype designated race machines, while AMA and WSB race street modifieds. I offer the following slight rebuttal: I don't think that WSB is any better than AMA Superbike, but don't take my word for it...just as Neil Hodgson or Ben Bostrum. I think that it USED to be, but things have evened out over the last few years. Maybe this is just my feeling of national pride talking here...
jd |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:00 am: |
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Race Pirate sez:
"Jim- good points this pic is why I was questioning the crank/flywheel weight. A 45 degree crank like no other..... I have some experience with Sportster and Big Twins, but this pic made me feel kinda funny inside..."
Yeah, I know what you mean...is that thing really inside of a Harley? I wonder what does that weigh? I have never seen anything like it. |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:10 am: |
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Anony sez:
"Which brings us back to the question, why did the clutch hubs break? Well, we are working on that, but it won't be a cush drive rear wheel that will fix it, nor will it be different clutch plate material. When you break parts in a couple of laps that in other tests have gone hundreds of miles with no issues, it takes a lot of analysis to figure out what could be wrong.
And you can bet your butt neither this problem nor any of the other Daytona problems will surface again."
I have full confidence that you guys will fix those problems. It seems like you guys are all over it...and I will be there at most Eastern US races cheering you all on.
jimidan |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 10:32 am: |
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I'll take the western ones Jimidan  .
In any case....
The case for a cush drive in the XBRR... Was made a long time ago . |
Race_pirate
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:09 am: |
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Maybe it was just a gearing issue, slow turns & that wacky first gear, more load on the clutch hub, more heat generated and blamo!!!
Daytona is the only race on the calander that is totally prepped differently from all others, especially the 200..... |
Loki
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 11:20 am: |
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Court
sending a mail
Bry |
Jimidan
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 01:23 pm: |
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M1combat sez:
"In any case....
The case for a cush drive in the XBRR... Was made a long time ago."
Word.
jd |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 02:50 pm: |
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I've got another stupid question. Oh hang on. Not sure if I've had on.........
I know it's been mentioned before some time ago, with comparison to super charger belts etc, so why is it seemingly not possible to run the XBRR on a super high tech belt, and wouldn't this solve the cush situation, at least in part if it were possible?
Please, no flaming. I've had a belly full.
Rocket |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 03:19 pm: |
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Dumb ass. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 03:21 pm: |
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.
. |
Bluzm2
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 03:23 pm: |
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Rocket,
I think it probably has to do with the ease of gearing changes from track to track.
Many more options with chain the belt. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 03:32 pm: |
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I'm assuming he means belt primary...
From what I've heard, the belt causes too much friction against the faces on the sides of the pulleys and they heat up quite a bit...
Can't you run a belt primary in an oil bath though just like the chain?
In any case... I just re-read the anony posts and the cush drive seems to be fine. It's certainly the clutch hubs...
How do we fix that? From other posts I've heard and stuff... It seems the hubs were sub-par even for that manufacturer. That kind of pisses me off a little (ok, a good deal), but the solution?
I say billet, but I'd bet that anony and the crew will come up with something better. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 04:28 pm: |
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Just for your information, belt drives do not have the stretch people think. The stiffness of the new Goodyear belts on 2006 Buells is extremely high, very close to that of a chain. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 06:05 pm: |
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What? Haven't you ever played with a rubber band?
Sorry. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 07:30 pm: |
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I was thinking of the final drive actually, and I was assuming that different length belts could be made for different gear ratios.
I'm assuming too that the (high?) cost involved in small runs of belt and alternate size pulley production must have some bearing, but I can't help but think a gear ratio series of kits complete with alternate pulleys wouldn't be that far fetched would it?
The Harley and Buell production range should be designed to allow varied pulleys and belts so as interchangeability between models would permit for alternate gear ratio options between models. I'm sure where pulley manufacture is concerned, the aftermarket vendors would quickly pick up on the market if only the belts were available.
Just a thought from an asshat 
INTERCHANGEABILITY ......the longest word I've ever written on BadWeB
Rocket |
Henrik
| | Posted on Friday, March 24, 2006 - 09:41 pm: |
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Too tired to really think it through, but the interchangeable belt/sprocket kits sound like an interesting idea. Two questions:
1) could these kits be made to cover enough gearing range with small enough steps for racing use?
2) could this range in these small steps still be accomplished while maintaining the idler wheel and correct belt tension?
Cool idea Rocket. If possible, and if used successfully on track, it could be a nice boost for belt use on bikes.
Henrik |
Crusty
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 05:08 am: |
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What? Haven't you ever played with a rubber band?
Have you ever tried to stretch a rubber band that had kevlar cords running through it? |
Bueller999
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 08:42 pm: |
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You have an adjustable axle on these swing arms for chain adjustment, couldn't you use it for belt tension if the pulley sizes were changed? |
Henrik
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 09:27 pm: |
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Adjustable axle; achieving correct belt tension would be the challenge. I was thinking - or hoping more like it - that the kit wouldn't require axle adjustment.
Henrik |
Bigblock
| | Posted on Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 09:34 pm: |
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The XBRR does have an adjustable swingarm which should mean you would have a little leeway wrt the belt length for each pulley combo. Perhaps a set number of belt lengths and different combos w/ sprockets for some wheelbase adjustment as well...
(?)
Of course, you get all this adjustability in a much simpler way with a chain. One chain. Pick your length. Readily available sprocket selection. Cheaper than belt pulleys, too. |
Sokota
| | Posted on Sunday, March 26, 2006 - 09:06 am: |
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Make the tension pulley adjustable , can a belt hold up to 150 hp in race conditions ? |
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