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Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 05:38 am: | 
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The difference is Pete, in between slinging shit there's a few other things.
Friendship, respect, humour, the simple act of conversation. I think I can count three times in the past year or three when Court managed anyone one of these in my direction, but I'd quickly lose count of the quips, sarcasm and condescending remarks he's offered instead.
Oh the horror!
Rocket |
Kuuud
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:13 am: |
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"I think that at some point in the next 20 years H-D is gonna hit a very rough patch and if Buell is alive only because they can get extra cash from Harley then they will be the first thing to die".
Totally true statement Dave. The average age of a new HD buyer has increased by 10 years in the last decade to 48 years old (my age!). Their customers are literally dying off!
The VRSC (in the US at least) hasn't brought in as many new and 'other brand' riders as I'm sure they would like. Notice all the press attention seems to focus on the increased # of women riders! It's the only significant area of growth. Over-production is a distinct possibility.
Ahhh, for the heady days of the 90's when I bought a new HD (or two) ever year rode them for a season or so, then sold them for a $2000 profit! Now I can walk into a dealership and see 100+ new bike on the floor! ...and you still have some dealers charging significantly more than MSRP!!!
The down turn (down fall?) will come. All those retired rich guys and foreign car dealers who became HD dealers will move on. Hopefully the true enthusiast (Buell) dealers will survive. The spirit of Buell and it's customers says it will as long as it isn't pulled down with the sinking ship.
Bret |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:49 am: |
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"The VRSC (in the US at least) hasn't brought in as many new and 'other brand' riders as I'm sure they would like. Notice all the press attention seems to focus on the increased # of women riders!"
And guess what, from what I see, the old guard is so resistant to change from the v-twins, the V-Rod is being marketed as a "chick's bike." I think HD probably has to see this demographic and is one reason they are with Buell. But you know the main reason, they look at Buell as an intro bike and that Buell owners will eventually move UP to an HD, ain't that a HOOT.... |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 09:29 am: |
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Those dealers who dropped Buell or treated Buell owners as crap will be the first to go. |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 09:48 am: |
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Would you believe there are more folks moving from FLH and Softtails to Buell than from Buell to HD?
who'd have thunk . . . |
Kuuud
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:04 am: |
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Damn, I hate being in the majority! My Uly had me pretty much convinced to get rid of my FLH !
Bret |
Curtyd
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:14 am: |
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A lot is riding on a success on the racetrack, I am sure, AND if it translates to the showroom, and The BUELLS start flying off the floors...WELL...
... HD will probably jump back into superbike with a street-based V-4 model and maybe even hang some turn signals, headlight and license plate on one of those flattracker 750's.
I could have my 300lb on/off roader AND a 1340cc 400lb torque-touring monster. Come to PAPA....
BUT, Honey, pleeezzz, you just have to understand why I bought TWO new bikes! |
Peter
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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quote:but I'd quickly lose count of the quips, sarcasm and condescending remarks he's offered instead.
Mate, that's a perfect case, of the pot calling the kettle black, if ever I've heard one  |
Midknyte
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 02:51 pm: |
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I don't have the money for one, but have to admit, I've sat on this year's incarnation of the VRODs.
I don't dislike them (as much... anymore...). |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 05:33 pm: |
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The negative personal stuff is not something we need to see online in public, is it?
Geez Rocket, obviously Peter loves you. Ain't that enough? Like he always says, over a beer in a pub, it ain't even anything.
I love you too. So buck up, would ya?
Thanks Jon, I agree, no need to lace the discussion with anything other than naturally aspirated scenarios. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 05:34 pm: |
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If "i" remember correctly(CRS you know)
Mert Lawwill NATIONAL #12(did make #1) came up with the "SLIPPER CLUTCH" for the
KRTT's ... So this is OLD TECH. and with
the NEW TECHNOLIGY,WHAT THE "BUELLschitte" is happening ???
In BUELLing
LaFayette |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 07:11 pm: |
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I openly criticized Buell for failing to get the XBRR of JW to the finish over a failed slipper clutch or part there of. That's it. Nothing of a personal nature. That's not pot calling anything. It's just an observation of mine.
Some anonymous nice person then decides that he wants to chuck a personal insult or two my way. No big deal. I understand. Next up, and not surprisingly, the real Mr Know it all and personal friend to the pope president and popular front, decides to back the anonymous nice person up. Then squeaky clean Pete wants to make an arsehole out of me too. What a scream.
I did offer to crawl back under a rock but not when the great pretenders come out to play at my expense.
If we want to talk openly about the XBRR failing to finish the 200, is this to include the comments of those who dare to offer criticism of Buell or not?
Try this. Am I to believe that STM couldn't provide or manufacture a slipper clutch? Am I to believe that Titan couldn't make a slipper clutch for the XBRR? How about Sigma and so on and so forth?
Rocket |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 08:32 pm: |
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IMO McWilliams had the best XBRR ...
IMO he was the best team rider, BUT anyone of the four had the ability to get the job done !!!
Dick O'Brian are you watching ??? |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:25 pm: |
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The four bikes in the race were remarkably equal. The strongest on the dyno did not go to McWilliams, just the luck of the draw. The failures, which are still being diagnosed in detail (the bikes just got back from Daytona last night), are not related to having or not having a slipper clutch, and appear to be relatively simple to correct -- Daytona was also the first time they appeared.
And Rocket, do you have any recollection of how long your beloved Ducati raced 8-valves before they were anything but a joke? You might ask Alan Cathcart, who owned one of the first ones, about how competitive they were. |
Jon
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:48 pm: |
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Anony,
I hope the folks at Buell realize that the rank and file Buellers here appreciate what Buell did and what the nature of this journey is that Buell has embarked upon. Sometimes complainers are the most vocal and can give the wrong impression of a group by the out of proportion sqwaking.
We are very appreciative of the technical transparency that has been offered. It gives us a real look at what the issues are....but again, that's the unique personality of Buell. |
Buellistic
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
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Primary Chain 3/4 inch cold on the tight spot, period !!! |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 10:55 pm: |
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I remember in the old kz,cb,gs era bikes failing spectacularly with oil everywhere
and the factory claiming "it was an electrical fault". The japanese of that era would
never admit to a mechanical problem. No matter how obvious the problem was.
I'm glad Buell is up front with us. |
Ortegakid
| | Posted on Thursday, March 16, 2006 - 11:18 pm: |
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And I also applaud Anony,refreshing at it's best, and also remember p.o.s. ducks first attempts!(and I had a 916 race bike at one time, so don't flame me!) |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:05 am: |
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Awe so I ragged on the slipper clutch. Isn't that what you blamed the other day? So now all of a sudden I gotta ask Cathcart about 8 valves Duc's. Would this be in anyway meant as a challenge for me to prove my worthiness as a biker or summat?
Listen mate, what makes you or Court think I give a shit about Ducati's past or present racing history? I care that Ducati continue to go racing, and on a big scale. I'm excited about the prospect of seeing how well an MV goes in WSB if it ever happens. I'd like to see Buell do well too somewhere down the line, but this low key effort that started with a big bang at the 200 is really not what us stiff British upper lippers are made for.
I see Dave put up some nice words for you last night, and I can see how that might work for you, but to be honest dude I think it's always a bit of a cop out where Buell is concerned.
Let's take Foggy for example. Well he ain't exactly setting the world on fire in WSB, and no one yet has taken delivery of one of the 150 street bikes that are sat in a warehouse in Malaysia, but the guy's going racing for the fourth season in WSB. Where is Buell?
What about WCM. Pete Clifford's on the Moto GP grid every other weekend with his prototype machinery, all paid for pretty much out of his own pocket. Ok he's a back fielder but his latest prodigy James Elison is now on the same bike as Edwards and Rossi for this season. Where is Buell?
How about TVR. A small British car building company with a turnover probably less than Buells annual. Not only have they one of the fastest one make race series in the world but a mere handful of years ago they entered World Sportscar racing with their own V12 engined and hand built car. The most powerful car on the grid. They won some races. Entered Le Mans (again) but DNF'd. Still to this day TVR manufacture a huge portion of their cars components in house themselves. All upholstery, instrument clusters, switch gear, door handles, chassis, steering racks, wiring looms and their own engines. You do know they're looking to break into the bike market don't you? Where are Buell?
See a pattern here? Just what exactly does Buell spend its money on? 50 $30000 club race bikes? An off road bike that's not really an off road bike? Well that's going to secure Buell a bright future I'm sure, but as a one time Buell fan and a current Buell owner, it's not the future I see myself rejoicing in. Frankly I think you're more committed to the corporate cash cow than you dare admit and that's why you go racing on the cheap, if at all. Things sure are different on a Buell.
As for the Otto Valvole Desmo you speak of, you mislead us with your Cathcart quote. The real story was the reluctance of Fabio Taglioni to embrace new technology, he being the godfather of desmodromic Ducati's. Taglioni wanted to pursue the two valve Pantah motor for yet more performance after Cagiva took over Ducati in 1985, but the Castiglioni brothers wanted a more modern engine so they turned to Massimo Bordi for the four valve project. Bordi was an F1 fan so it was to Cosworth he turned to help him design his cylinder head. The fuel injection was designed originally for the Ferrari F40 and the new motor sat on modified Pantah crankcases with wider spaced cylinder studs, its dimensions shared with the 750F1 at 88 x 61.5mm giving 748cc thus allowing the prototype motor to run in the World Endurance Championship.
The motor was placed in a modified 750F1 frame and entered into the Bol d'Or 24hr race at Paul Ricard on September 18th 1986.It was ridden by Marco Lucchinelli, Juan Garriga and Virgino Ferrari, after fifteen hours it was in 7th place before it retired with a broken con-rod bolt.
By now Taglioni had the two valve out to 851cc and 90hp so Bordi did likewise with the four valve. 115hp was seen on the test bench and that sealed the motors future.
By early 1987 the reliability had improved to the point where it was decided to race it in the Battle of the Twins at Daytona in March. Producing 115rwhp at 11500rpm Marco Lucchinelli easily won the race. He was timed at 165.44mph and for a twin in 1987 that was really something.
I make that about 18 months of development, and that four valve motor lasted through to 2000 when it made way for the second generation Testastressa. So what was it you wanted me to ask Cathcart?
Let me give you some sage advice. Quit putting others down in an effort to better yourself and leave the bull shit to your mate with the big trousers.
Rocket |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 06:05 am: |
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>>>>>We are very appreciative of the technical transparency that has been offered.
Really kinda cool. I have no idea where one would even set out to ask such a "hey, what happened to the bike?" question of any of the other competitors at Daytona.
My guess is that it'd be impossible to find someone, if you did, I'd look for a "no comment".
The, to quote Road Thing, classiest move at Daytona was when Erik left the post-race riders dinner to hang out and speak, candidly, with Buell owners. At that time, there was only very limited information available, yet he didn't hide from anybody.
Cool beans.
I suspect that, based on bits and pieces of info yesterday, that the BUELL RACE TEAM is here to stay. Harley-Davidson appears quite thrilled with being back where they belong. . . on the race track.
Now....back to work convincing my wife that we need to go to Barber! |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:45 am: |
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I don't know why Buell, Anon and the entire race team is trying so hard. All they have to do is hire Rocket and he will lead them to glory.
Jeez, it is SO EASY to sit on your ass and have an opinion.
Actually doing something, is of course, another matter.
Hats off to Anon for giving us an insight into the effort that is unique and fascinating. We appreciate it and I have learned a ton about racing.
Can't imagine the Jap factories chatting with their customer like this! |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 10:46 am: |
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PS-see you at CA Speedway! |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 11:39 am: |
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Some will be content to talk while other will pickup the gauntlet and ACT.
Actions speak louder than words.
Court - come race with me! |
Crusty
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 12:18 pm: |
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Now....back to work convincing my wife that we need to go to Barber!
Court, I have the same problem. I think pointing out the really neat sculptures along the track is helping. Plus my wife rides and has expressed an interest in seeing a race at Barber in the past. The bad news is that we'd have to take the car because I used up too much vacation time going to Daytona. We shall see... |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
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"Where is Buell?"
Selling street bikes, developing new street bikes, developing and providing ready to roll competitive racing machines for a mere $31K, making a profit, and helping folks campaign Buell race bikes in all manner of classes including AMA Formula Xtreme. Did I mention that they are making a profit?
Where is Ducati, Foggy, and WCM? One is having trouble with the profit thing, the others are back marker racing enthusiasts who are unconcerned with profit.
You sound exceedingly harsh and come across as caustic and hateful. I know you don't mean it that way, but your words sound that way. Respect where it is due. One race does not a racing effort make. Truth be told, I expect that Buell really pushed the envelope to get to Daytona this year. Which is the point wrt the Duc 8-valves.
Good grief. Be happy. |
Rocketman
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 03:40 pm: |
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Harsh and hateful not. Criticism, facts and truth is what I've posted.
Again, I simply expressed an opinion that seems unfavourable with some, and I got flamed for doing so. What's this board to be if it can't be honest amongst itself? What's the point in being here if one can't offer subjective opinions, good or bad? See those red stars up there. I didn't put a single one of them there, and I've never had eight in one post before either. That ought to tell you something about some of the other persons opinions here.
Bruce, anyone can find glory if they have enough resources. That's why Honda have been so successful over the years. That's why Yamaha poached Rossi from Honda. It's the reason Ferrari paid the highest sum ever to secure Schumacher. That's the point of my comments.
Apparently, "the BUELL RACE TEAM is here to stay. Harley-Davidson appears quite thrilled with being back where they belong. . . on the race track". So where are the resources that befit such a wealthy, make that the worlds wealthiest, motorcycle company? Invested in 50 $30,000 club racers? Give me the funds that HD \ Buell should have and I'll give you a slipper clutch that can handle the torque and a Buell that will win the 200. Easy beans for a bloke of my talents and connections.
You guys do know that Mr Honda was at the 50th anniversary of Honda at the Island don't you? He met and spoke with many fans of Honda and road racing. I'm not sure he attended any barbecues or similar but he did more than just sit in the executive box playing Mr Chairman. Can we please stop making out that Mr Buell is some kind of celebrity hero who has an unusual habit of talking to his minion's. He's just a normal bloke who eats beef burgers and Dorito's isn't he? Or does he really sit in an ivory tower?
And man am I happy. The world is my oyster this year. Trust me.
Now can we please carry on with this rather fascinating debate. Who knows, my comments might inspire Buell enough to invest more than the price of 1 Honda FX bike when they go racing at the 200 next year. Then you can all kiss my arse when they win  Meanwhile boys and girls, take it easy. They're only motorcycles.
Rocket |
Spike
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 04:11 pm: |
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quote:Bruce, anyone can find glory if they have enough resources.
I think that's the part that bothers me about the factory race teams. They spend exponentially more than everyone else and flaunt their big wins. If Buell can compete with them at a fraction of the budget they'll have a glory greater than anything you can buy.
quote:Meanwhile boys and girls, take it easy. They're only motorcycles.
Now that's what I'm talking about. Can you move that into a separate post so I can rate it 5 stars? |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 04:21 pm: |
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As this rages on..and on...and on it becomes more and more obvious that winter
needs to be over........ soon.
While obviously we all have emotional attachments to our motorcycles, some
saddle time will do us all some good in the perspective department. |
Captpete
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 04:39 pm: |
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And man am I happy. The world is my oyster this year. Trust me.
Yeah, man... That's what havin' a Buell to ride again will do for ya. |
Brucelee
| | Posted on Friday, March 17, 2006 - 04:41 pm: |
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"Then you can all kiss my arse when they win"
The essential Rocket! |
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