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Honu
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 10:41 am: | 
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To heck with all this engine/motor arguments, legel not legal stuff. I just want to see the bikes dropping off the high banking into the infield and the Buells outhandle the others thru the curves!!!  |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:17 am: |
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Kenb: Not to worry. . . trust me, I've seem plenty of Buell enthusiasm over the years...and NEVER anything remotely approaching this.
I've tendered >75 e-mails this morning and spoken to folks in 3 countries...once again confirming "you meet the nicest people on a Buell". . . hey...wait?....that's not ours!
The technical, legal and qualification issues are, at this point, yesterdays news. What I will be focusing on is (I checked with B.R.A.G. and they have no plans for Daytona) that all the Buell fans are suitably entertained and have a memorable time.
A V-Twin...any V-Twin....even the rastiest one is nothing short of a thrill to see at Daytona. Why'd Erik Buell pick this venue....ohhhh...I'd say about 37 reasons, but one of them is that ANYTHING that happens at Daytona starts as spectacular and just gets better from there.
I predict (quote me if you'd like) the LARGEST BUELL CROWD IN HISTORY at Daytona 2006.
We're Back.
Glitch - call the stadiuum operator |
Grndskpr
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:21 am: |
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I think the AMA completely opened the rules up for air-cooled twins beyond the reasonable and prudent to try to bring in new competition.
Agree
I would assume (depending on Buell's success) they will restrict the rules in the future (ie specify which part(s) need to be bone stock) and somehow the new cases will need to appear on street bikes.
Like they did with the VROD in pro stock, added weight to make things more equal
They may have even seen what the Vrod did for drag racing and got a bit smart and decided to introduce a host of new fans, which as most know = cash
but I don't think I would try to pass a watercooled I-4 off as a "modified" aircooled v-twin.
No, but it brings up an interesting question, what is unlimited mods mean, or at what point in time does the AMA say nah thats beyond the scope of the rule
For example, if you took a fueling kit, and added a third cylinder(if they made them for sportsters)
Or
If you opened up the v to 60 degs or the list goes on and on
Where do you think the line is drawn????
R |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:24 am: |
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Just as an FYI, there are 3 dates a year that you can buy race kit parts over the counter for the yamaha, just about everything legal you could want(it was kinda cool to look over the parts list avaliable)
Again, not ment to be mean, but it is avaliable
Not sure about Honda however
Thanks for the FYI, I didn't know that about Yamaha (good on 'em) but the reason I said Honda, is because you can't with a Honda, and Erion Honda is the ones crying fowl.
I don't get it, Buell just produced a 150hp bike and is making a commitment to race in an AMA sanctioned class and still people are ragging on Buell.
It's always been this way.
Buell stirs emotions like no other brand, with both haters and lovers.
No other brand can compare with the passion Buell stirs up, no matter what side of the fence you're standing on.
Cool ain't it! |
Rex
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:33 am: |
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The basic engine looks pretty similar, transmission area, layout of the cylinders, etc. That layout of the motor could be made one of these days for the street.
what were the rules for flattracking when Harley made the 750 flat track motor. I don't believe it was street legal.
like court said, I am sure if erik put this together , he reviewed the rules, and designed the bike to take full advantage of the rules.
there are a lot of the 600's in the race, with a lot of technology and rider skill. Personally I hope the Vtwin is successful....I know it will sound good, I hope it is reliable, I hope that they can do tire changes quickly, and I would love to see them win!
what will come out in the press after the event if buell wins? would be interesting to see.
Maybe this is a start for buell, like ducati had when paul smart took the ducati Vtwin to Imola and won that race. that one kick started Ducati into what it is today.
I sure wish I could be at Daytona this year. I will be tied up with work and cannot get loose to be there. Otherwise I would be there, sitting beside court and dave! Whoohooooooooo. Put a cushion in the chair beside you with my name on it. REX |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:36 am: |
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What we need at Daytona is a block of seats reserved so we can enjoy this together....and make a good showing for TV. Anybody know how to do this or anybody with connections at the track? |
Josh_
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 11:43 am: |
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>or at what point in time does the AMA say nah thats beyond the scope of the rule
When it's more than just Erion whining.
Didn't the ProStock rules change mis-season more than once against the VROD to balance things out?
>paul smart took the ducati Vtwin to Imola
Great excuse to post the 2006 PaulSmart1000LE. Gotta love a shock on only one side of a swing arm
 |
Cataract2
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 12:52 pm: |
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What I will be focusing on is (I checked with B.R.A.G. and they have no plans for Daytona) that all the Buell fans are suitably entertained and have a memorable time.
This is really annoying. Buell just released a race bike and BRAG doesn't have any offerings like they did last year for the Daytona 200. Man.... |
Rex
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:40 pm: |
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Brag...sure makes you wonder. No Daytona Brag, when one of the newest buell race bikes of all time has just be released.
Laguna, no details.
buell factory tours.
Sure missing what the buell community is looking for?
It does make you wonder if it is going away, or if they want Brag to follow the local hog activities?
Looks to me that all of the buell folks would like to have meetings at the tracks around the country.
I can understand that maybe over the past several years, there have been some accidents, some fatal on BRAG event rides, and maybe they are trying to get away from sponsoring those again? I don't know.
I can understand that. You can then have just destinations. letting everyone get there on their own, but still sponsoring a tent or a gathering place at the racing events. what better people to show up and support the buell race bike than buell enthusiasts.
Maybe we will hear more later this year, as to the direction of Brag? REX |
Jlnance
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 01:55 pm: |
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Nance, beg to differ, modification in an alteration of something already existing, not a replacement.
I actually wrote that comment for you Rubberdown. Given your profession, I thought you would be impressed with my ability to read new things into the rules.  |
Chainsaw
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:02 pm: |
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There are pics of the XBRR during Wind Tunnel Testing on Buell.com, and I've got a question:
When wind tunnel testing, why are the wheels stationary? Wouldn't tires and wheels spinning at 100mph disturb some airflow around the bike? How come no dyno in the tunnel? Inquiring minds want to know.  |
Rubberdown
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 02:21 pm: |
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JNance, you gotta come to Daytona with us. Won't be the same without you man! |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 03:06 pm: |
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Roger,
The issue of what exactly passes for "unlimited modifications" certainly isn't black and white. My view is that some semblance of the original engine must remain and that its general architecture equal that of its street motor progenitor (two-valve, pushrod, common crank-pin, air-cooled, 45o, V-Twin. Buell is pushing the limit for sure, but their motorcycle is going racing baybee! WOOOHOOO!
Admittedly, I am curious to learn whether or not Mr. Hollingsworth's abrupt departure from the helm at AMA Pro Racing was related to the Buell XBRR FX issue. If it turns out that he was fired for pushing a pro-Japan Inc anti-Buell agenda, I'd sure like to know. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 03:17 pm: |
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Or if he was canned for pushing a pro-Buell Anti-Japan agenda... |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 03:33 pm: |
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>>>>Buell is pushing the limit for sure
Name 3 racers who's success can be attributed to being carefully conservative.
Based on the >100 e-mails I got today and the folks I've spoken to in 3 countries, this is going to be THE DAYTONA TO REMEMBER.
My advise, talking to VegasBueller this morning....start making great friends with your neighbors. The last time I got involved in one of these....well, we didn't have enough food.
WE'RE BACK! |
Tripper
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 03:44 pm: |
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I thought the Fuell I received yesterday had an invitation to attend Daytona Hopspitality tent?
Good interview with Steve Anderson also. |
Jeffb
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:28 pm: |
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What day/time is the race? AMA and DIS do not list individual race times.
Jeff |
Josh_
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:46 pm: |
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So who all is going to Daytona? Advice on room / race ticket availability? Buell seating section? party invites? secret handshake?
Can I wear my "Yamaha Racing" hat?  |
Madduck
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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Chainsaw,
Wind tunnel testing has never been an exact science. Everything done in there is relative. You get what you think is a good design and then blow smoke at it. Tweak on it some and then test again. Amazing things happen to wonderful designs when tested. The wheels need to be spun from below which involves essentially a sucking fan below the bike at either end which distorts the smoke flow, disturbing any evaluation.
Basic designs can be improved greatly in the wind tunnel but transferring to real world is a separate art. Spinning wheels, quartering winds, humidity, exhaust gas exiting and shape changes due to interactions with road surface disturb even "optimal" designs. One of the advantages of the ztl brake is that the wheel "hides" the rotor from the wind. Watch the "old hands" preping to run down the "salt" and you will get a real idea of what needs to be done to increase speed. |
Jima4media
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 05:56 pm: |
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Jeff,
The Daytona 200 is on Saturday, March 11th. Last year it was on 2PM Eastern live on Speed Channel. Could be a different time this year.
Jim |
M2nc
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:01 pm: |
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Buell seating section? party invites? secret handshake?
Yeah, is there going to be a place us Buellers can sit and watch the race?
C3's contingent is growing. We have four definite and three more maybes. |
Paint_shaker
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 06:29 pm: |
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Awesome bike Mr. Buell, can't wait to see/ hear it run!!
My 2 cents; I seriously doubt Mr. Buell and Co. would invest the time and $$$ to introduce an "illegal" race bike.
I hope to see all those going in Daytona! |
Vegasbueller
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 07:34 pm: |
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Josh: Keep watching for the BBQ postings! We'll be hosting one Friday and Saturday that you will not want to miss! |
Glitch
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 07:59 pm: |
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Watch the "old hands" preping to run down the "salt" and you will get a real idea of what needs to be done to increase speed.
An XBRR on the salt!
When do ya'll think this could happen? |
99buellx1
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 08:16 pm: |
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Minneapolis and Chicago IMS
Will this bike be there?
please, please, please! |
Joe58
| | Posted on Thursday, January 26, 2006 - 10:03 pm: |
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This should be a time of celebration with the introduction of the XBRR. Instead some people are criticizing Buell for using this engine platform; and whether it's fair or legal. The bike was designed within the rules of the participating sanctioning bodies. I don't recall the Harley teams
complaining that they have a 750cc ohv 2 valve per cyl. to compete against 1000cc dohc 4 valve per cyl. engines. Granted it's a race motor but it's a 34 year old race motor with only a few redesigns. In the 1996 XR 750 parts book there are a bunch of parts that date from the 1950s and one from 1937. The production based motors that they race against are more cutting edge. The late VR1000 was designed with the latest technologies and had assistance from Porsche and Roush racing. And as much as we wished and/or made nefarious deals with nether world monarchs; the bike never showed up in the winner's circle or the showrooms. It was speculated by some that the Pro Stock VRod would need more of a displacement advantage to even qualify. Well NHRA had to add weight to the machines to keep competition close. For 2005 we had the H.D. team and several Buell teams to cheer for. These bikes have even less in common with their street cousins than the XBRR. Yet it is just as satisfying when one of them gets the win lights.
If there is a disparity with the bikes leave it to the authorities to make the adjustments. Let's not trailer the bike before it gets a chance to turn a wheel in anger.
Unfortunately no matter what Erik does someone will be dissatisfied. So Erik as Ricky Nelson once said "You can't please everyone so might as well please yourself". Erik was the additional colors added to the traditional blue and white a tribute to your hometown team. How about one for the thumb. Joe Greene is still on staff. GO STEELERS.
I myself am looking forward to cheering Anthony on whether 825 is on a XBR or XBRR. |
Sportsman
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 01:14 am: |
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I haven't been around for awhile But..
IT'S ABOUT F'N TIME!
In 03 I bitched and said a 9r was too far off the mark for anybody but rich guys to race. I whined for a XB1350RR for how long and heard 'Oh it would be way too expensive to retool to do that. I pleaded for at least a street legal 1350 chain drive and was laughed at. As fast as the sportbike market moves, a 3 year lag ending with accolaides could only be pulled off by Harley. I never met the guy, but I'm sure Eric feels like he finally got over a Bad case of corporate constipation. 50 sold in a couple of days... huh. It's a shame 40 of them are probably going to end up in bubble wrap for some rich guys grandson to enter a vintage race in 20 years. I'm sure to the bottom of my heart that was not Eric's original intention but I've got to give my most respect for finally getting it done. Best of luck to whoever gets to really ride one.
Yes I'm an old sourpuss.. but watching the best get beaten in the boardroom instead of the racetrack made me this way. Now, whoever get the honor, GO KICK SOME HONDA AS*. |
Court
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 07:35 am: |
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>>>>So who all is going to Daytona? Advice on room / race ticket availability? Buell seating section? party invites? secret handshake?
Today I have to actually work. But yesterday I received 107 e-mails about "the plan" for Daytona. It appears, as a result of our communal enthusiasm that at least 3 groups of folks have decided to travel in, in looks like Dave Gess and I will be doing a "remember to tell me" session Saturday night and it now looks like we'll be having some guests from Europe.
I'm tied up today and in "probability and statistics review" all day tomorrow. By Sunday, we'll have "THE DAYTONA 2006" plan in place.
WE'RE BACK !! |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 10:08 am: |
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"What day/time is the race? AMA and DIS do not list individual race times."
I was similarly frustrated, you cannot buy a block of tickets for the race weekend, cannot even pre-purchase tickets for the Superstock and Supersport races on Thursday. They are only selling advance tickets for Saturday (Superbike and FX/200) and the flat track races and the supercross race. It seems that AMA Pro Racing is doing their best to keep secret their schedule for Daytona this year. Found it via exhaustive google search at...
http://www.amadirectlink.com/daytonadirect/2006/schedule.asp#Monday,%20March%206
I couldn't find the schedule anywhere on any of the ama pro racing sites.
Sure would be nice to be able to purchase a comprehensive AMA Pro Racing race ticket package for Daytona.  |
Jscott
| | Posted on Friday, January 27, 2006 - 12:09 pm: |
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Looks like McWilliams may be off the list of potential Buell racers.
http://www.roadracingworld.com/news/article/?article=24899
Unless Daytona is a one-off. |
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XBRR Threads Consolidated Here! »