| Author | Message | ||
     Court |
Roger: I do not consider your explanation of your opinion, observations and wishes a "rant". A "rant" is the communication equivalent of a child's temper tantrum, based on emotion, not fact. Your thoughts are well considered and communicated. Frankly, the type of things I can build a case around. You and I agree on virtually every point. I am confident that several of the things (and I can discuss this when I get more time...meeting in 20 minutes) you suggest are already the subject of committed initiatives. Thank you | ||
| Al_Lighton |
I'm on the "satisfied" list. The dealer support has been OK, with mostly positive but a couple minor negative experiences, but I tend to do all my own work. And my Buells have been very reliable. I had more issues with my GPz than I've ever had with my Buells, and I was into the top end of all my high school/college bikes, something I've never had to do with either Buell. I sent the A/F article to Blake. After he posts it, I'll send it those that requested it if it isn't as readable here. I suspect you'll be able to get it from here just fine though. Brad, I can't remember specifically what I asked about on the rear mount, it's been a while. I think it was the descripton of the failure mode, which you'd indicated was failed spotwelds on the straps. I wanted to know so that I could design that failure mode out of the bracket that I was designing for Donn Griffin's race header/muffler project. I've got the prototype mount I designed on my S1W now, and 5 preproduction units that need to be mounted on test bikes. It's Donn's project, I'm waiting for instructions from him on what to do next. Anyone have any home contact info for Donn? I know he's left Qwest, but all I had was his work phone/email addresses. Al | ||
| Snail |
Court, your methodology is flawed if you use the number of disatisfied customers in a ratio with total Buells sold. Thats not fair, make the ratio between the happy/sad of the respondents, to get a more accurate picture. For the record, my complaints and disatisfaction is with the machine, not the dealerships. I have used two dealerships, Doyle of Eugene, and Modesto, and have had good treatment and service at both. Paul | ||
| Brianh |
Court, UNSATISFIED! Until I bought a ZX12 that is. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I have two Buell dealers within 30 miles or so. The one that actually carries more bikes then just the blast will never see me again. They flat out lied on several occasions about if they had received my recall shock in stock. Claimed it was right there on the shelf when they had not even started the paper work. The second (blast only) dealer tries harder, but managed to bend my front rotor when mounting a tire and would not own up to it. This is after mounting two consecutive tires 5"+ slashes down the sidewall (and somehow not noticing), the second slashed tire being the wrong dunlop. Three major defects in a single transaction, one of which cost me close to $100. I still order parts through them, but they ain't touching my Cyclone unless I personally interview the mechanic that will be working on it ahead of time. So I, like others here, do my own work. Like others here, I actually prefer it that way, so it is not a huge deal. It makes the whole Buell ownership experience rewarding and economical, and gives me a very high ratio of "available to ride" time, every bit as good as my previous UJM. But the factory could help us out here. I had to buy my front muffler mount "goodwill upgrade" because I can't trust any local dealer to do it correctly. Heck, they did not even know it existed until I badgered them into hunting it up. I paid $100 for it just to be able to escape from the shop with a part I need to keep from shearing another exhaust stud. There oughta be a way we can get and install the goodwill'd parts directly without requiring us to subject our bikes to dealers (even if the transaction still goes through the dealer). That being said, I am a very satisfied Buell owner right now. I have a Cyclone with 11k miles on it that has been pretty reliable except for a few stupid design decisions (primary chain tensioner, front muffler mount, rocker box gaskets, speedo sensor) that I paid for out of pocket, but were not a big deal. It had one major defect, the leaking shock, which Buell stepped up and paid a fortune to fix at no cost to me. I don't blame Buell for this, mistakes happen, and as an engineer I battle entropy every day myself. You don't win by a miracle, you win by blood, sweat, and dogged persistence. Buell is now winning that battle. Overall, Buell corporate has been great to me. The bike excells in most areas (looks, handling, acceleration, character) and is mediocre in one area (reliability). For me, it has been an exceptionally positive net gain... and I dream of the day I can afford an XB9S. Buell continues to REALLY push my buttons. | ||
| Ccryder |
Court: Put me in the satisfied group (especially with this X-1). Granted my 99' was a real trouble (this has all been discussed years ago) prone unit, my Dealer and Buell did their best to keep it on the road. My X-1, with 30,000+ miles (in 2 years)is raring and ready to go at the press of a button. Time4Work Neil S. | ||
| Jeffh |
My Buell experience: I still love the bike; 37,000 miles+ since July '97, with no major issues. The bottom end is all original; heads were swapped for ported/polished Tilley heads about 5 years ago. I have had some of the "typical" problems (sidestand switch et al). My dealership experience - has not been good . I even worked at a dealer for a few years. Sadly, I have NO desire to even bother with them for service or parts anymore. Outside of one mechanic who left the dealership, I would never consider them for service on my bike anyway. I think it is pathetic that I can't go to my local shop and have basic parts available. I have gone the Modesto route for parts. They are 3,000 miles away from me, yet provide inifinitely better service than ANY shop I have been into in the Philadelphia PA/Central New Jersey area. I believe Buell NEEDS dedicated showrooms/dealers AWAY from HD and the "attitude". I would be willing to travel an hour+/- and give my business to a shop that at least pretends they care about the customer AND the marque that they have chosen. | ||
| Snail |
Blake, Y2 is O.K., a couple years ago and he would have been leading a charge. I'll bet some day the two of us (Y2 and I) will meet and have a good laugh. Glad you appreciated the 'drunk snoring' line. Doubt that I'm going to make Thunderhill track day, as I recover from this broken leg I have found myself seriously behind in my work. Hauling the boat tomorow for bottom paint and routine maint., working on the crab traps, trying to get some timber logged...etc. I couldn't get all my work done if I was twins. Paul | ||
| Brianh |
Court, I'm afraid to say that your calculation is incredibly flawed. Get out there and ask Buell owners what they think of their bikes. Case in point. I went to York Open House 2 weeks ago. After Battletrax everyone went back to "Greesed Lightning's" house for a barbecue. There were about 7 Buell owners there. Each one of them proceeded to do nothing but complain about their motorcycle and the experiences they've had with everyone from their dealer to the Nallin brothers. It was a complete bitch fest. I was actually entertaining the idea of picking up an old S1 if the price was right, before I attended that gathering. Brought back all the memories. Everytime I make conversation with a Buell owner I ask the question, "Have you had any significant problems?" 9-10 guys roll their eyes at me as if to state, "Are you kidding?" That doesn't mean they don't love their bike. And that doesn't mean they're disatisfied. But it certainly shows me the level of quality that Buell has seen fit to sell to the public. And for me, it's unacceptable. I once sat around a breakfast table with YOU and listened to the story of how the 99 X1 was designed, untested, and then distributed. Given your inside knowledge of certain things at Buell, how in the world can you possibly make this argument? I contend that you can't. For whatever reason you will always place the positive spin on Buell. For your friends or your love of the bike. Somehow I think that pure honesty will always take a back seat to those factors. Based on your knowledge of the 99 X1's release, truthfully, how many customers COULD be 100% sastisfied with that motorcycle? Start a petition on this board. See how many are satisfied. And for crying out loud people! Just answer "Satisfied" or "Unsatisfied"! Whether it's you're only bike or not is inconsequential! It either fills your needs or it doesn't. Be truthful, not loyal in your reply. | ||
| Jrh |
Sorry,but count me as an unsatisfied owner.My Y2000 M2,bought new by me, smoked like a 2 stroke by 350 miles,(out of round cylinders).I bought a new 2001 R1 and let the Buell sit for almost 2 years unfixxed.Since i sold the R1 i've fixxed the Buell and have about 2000 miles on it.If i could sell it, i would,without hesitation. And by the way,Snail,iv'e never heard a busa at 11,000 rpm,but the sound my R1 made at open throttle made my Force exhaust Buell sound and seem just as you described. I was determined to try to never make another negative post,but i think this poll is too important to hold our opinions back on. | ||
| Josh |
Since I've got 3 Buells can I get 3 satisfied votes?  62,600 miles total. Josh 98 S1WL 99 S3 (aka ShadowFax) 00 P3 (aka Buell Blues Blast) | ||
| Chibueller |
Court, Put me in the unsatisfied group. I once loved them but like a woman who cheats on you, one has to let them go. Further, I don't think you can just tally up how many unsatified respondents you get and divide that # by the # of units sold. That's bad analysis. A truer picture would be if you tallied up all respondents who answer either satified or unsatisfied. Additionally, you should note that your survey was done on these web sites because I'm sure that'll be a little different than if you were to mail a survey or phone survey every owner. | ||
| Sarodude |
Buell Dissatisfaction: Man, I had a good one. My 01 Blast (bought new) chewed up its entire top end after less than 500 miles. I was following the pussy-footed break-in when this happened. NOTHING usable left in the top end. Now, I'd mentioned to the dealer once about a nocking noise that our OTHER Blast didn't make. After the failure I tried mentioning this noise to the dealer that was closest to where the bike died. I mentioned this noise to the BadWeb folks. Everyone told me that it was NORMAL - that these are noisy bikes. Nobody ever gave one bit of thought to the fact that I kept mentioning that our OTHER Blast was DEAD FREAKIN' QUIET. In fact, the servicing dealer laughed at me and said, "Of course it's noisy, you had a bent valve." I let him have it. So, the servicing dealer takes over one month to 'fix' the top end. They probably did a good job on it - but they ignored what I'd told them about the noise. Less than 50 miles and it was back WITH A VENGEANCE. I PRAYED that the bike WOULD explode before I reached home I was so pissed. Had the purchase dealer come and pick up the bike. I personally convinced Buell CS to send the pruchase dealer a new motor - which they accepted WITHOUT talking to any of the techs about what the noise was. They just new I was one pissed puppy and tried to make me happy. They really did try. Buell CS held up their end. However, the dealership where we bought the bikes from had people with no attention to detail and no interest in working on the Blast. Every time it came back there was something else wrong with it. I wound up doing 4 break-ins in like 3500 miles of ownership. One time someone at the dealer swiped my bikes mirrors and put on trashed up mirrors! This was out of hand. At the end of '01 I saw the straw that broke my back. It was another isolator bolt issue. The previous isolator issue was a lack of torque - or lack of attention to detail. This time it broke. Not sure why. Not sure I cared. I called the dealer, described my problem, and I simply STATED in as calm a manner as I could that they would have a NEW Blast for me sometime in the next few weeks. I received NO argument. Buell CS REALLY did try extra hard to keep me on board. In fact, there was really only 1 factory defect that initiated this whole fiasco. Everything else was dealer induced - or dealer ignored - or a dealer mechanic response to the fact that I rode a Blast and not a 'real' bike and wouldn't know the difference between an exhaust port and a hole in my ass. I got my brand new '02 Blast about a week later. I've had 2 issues which would have been covered under warranty - leaky valve guide seals and failed rocker box gaskets. I elected to address both issues in my non 'Factory Certified' garage and hands without regard to the warranty. Best decision made. I think Buell builds super cool bikes. I'm not biased towards them. There's lotsa bikes I'd love to have. However, the greatest Buell dissuasion (for me) has GOT to be the ridiculous delear 'service' that I encountered. I still excitedly sit on the Firebolt. I still hope one day to have an S1 in my stable. I Still think these are great bikes. All this from a guy that had enough of a bad experience to have a bike - allegedly the most reliable bike Buell has put out - bought back. Chill out, people. Figure out where the problem lies. Don't let the dealer fog up Buell CS's vision of your problem. GET INVOLVED. STAY REASONABLE. Emotion is OK if tempered with diplomacy. When all is said and done, hopefully you can still go out and enjoy your ride... -Saro | ||
| Buelliedan |
Satisfied, Buells crash very well!!  | ||
| Grndskpr |
Court one other thing, over the summer i enjoyed the battle trax event but due to my lack of ability, i lost the front end on my s3, found it later on the ground in front of me, no real problems, no real issues, but i decided to order a new fairing stay, that was about 4 months ago, now i talk to april in P&A and she says due in in august, gives me a date, and i even mentioned it to you on another part of the board, guess what still no stay, no call no nothing, is it my job to call the dealer chicago harley?? or should they call me, another thing to think about, now some one ask me about buell parts, what am i supose to say, order part for the wifes honda, get a call when there in and whats in, and if there on back order they call me and let me know when they thing there going to be in, and then when there in again i ask what am i supose to due???i really like buell but the dealer network is making it hard to justify it sorry ROger still waiting for my faring stay | ||
| Court |
Good points from a variety of learned folks with widely diverse experiences. By the way, no argument on that hypothetical methodology. For real world use, it'd stand up about as well as restricting the "Who beleives in God?" poll to those who have survived lightning strikes. One thing that confounds me is the affinity in perpetuity of "former dissaffeted owners". I'm a bit humored, while at the same time a bit confused, reading about former owners gathering for BBQ's. Frankly, the moment I parted company with my Chevrolet Vega (arguably the worst designed vehicle of all time) I never looked back, nor held BBQ's with co-victims. Dealers and the structure of the dealer network seems to be, again, bubbling to the top. I am regrettably aware of some very poor business practices that occur with alarming frequency. Slick and sly is one thing, lying is another. I've personally become aware of patently illegal and deceptive practices against both Buell and Buell customers. Those of you who read Battle2Win in the early days will recall my remarks (not unrelated perhaps to the LAST issue of B2W I wrote for in which I said "Buell suffers from a dealer dichotomy dilemia in that the good ones tend to be great and the bad one's suck". Selling Buells is not a get rich quick ticket for a dealer. Good business practice, however, IS. Like Jeff, I do business with dealers thousands of miles away and haven't set foot in the one 3 blocks away in 4 years. While this discourse is active and we have some infrequent visitors with intimate knowledge, let's toss this into the mix..... Given that Buell dealers, at this point, MUST be Harley-Davidson dealers. And, given the nature of the "dealers are independent businesses" portion of the HD dealer contract, how do you (realistic thoughts here....) begin to move the dealer component in a direction that benefits Buell's long term health? Court | ||
| Grndskpr |
Oh yea court if you do the mecanic thing count me in, i would love to be trained at the factory, and be as enthusiastic as some of the people i have meet, i mean April was wonderfull and so was some of the others(i would really rather not mention names since i have yet to ask them if i can) later Roger | ||
| Court |
>>>>> still waiting for my faring stay. Interesting. Last year, when I opined about Buell parts delivery I took a sharp shot on the chops from Wisconsin and was admonished that "All Buell parts, with the exception of painted body parts, are shipped from the factory within ________(I think it was 24 hours) of receipt of the order" Call the dealer. Tell them to call their SPOC rep and get the "Pick number". My bet is that an order has never been placed. In most cases I've dealt with the weak link turned out to be at the dealership. Court | ||
| Justjoe |
Count me as unsatisfied. I recently sold my 99 X1. Why? It had become no longer fun to ride. Every time I rode, I would get off the bike and look for what had broken, was leaking, etc. Too many times I found things. Luckily, I had what most consider minor problems, but I also did not want to wait until the big problems occurred. I sold it while I could still get some amount of money for it. A little about me and my Buell history. I got into Buells because I was riding my DynaWideGlide around with a bunch of guys riding more sport oriented bikes. While I loved my FXDWG, it wasn't suited to the riding I was doing. I sold it and bought my 98 S3. The dealership where I bought it just happens to be owened by my best friend's father. The S3 of course had rocker box leaks, broke the exhaust mount on my aftermarket exaust, had the race air cleaner rattle off, had the isolators go, tranny overfilled by the dealer (which I contend was not their fault because the SERVICE MANUAL had the wrong quantity listed), etc. My dealer did everything they could to help me, but they are in PA and I am in CT now, so it was not convienient and the local CT dealers are terrible. I was about to get rid of it and buy a 97 TLR when the "Goodwill voucher" for the recalls came out. Convinced that Buell had addressed the recall problems on the new model, I traded my S3 and the voucher for a 99 X1 Race Stripe. The bike was not even broken in when the volatage regulator bracket sheared off. Of course it had a rocker box leak, exhaust hanger break, burning oil, and problems with the fuell injection. No, I'm not a mechanic (mechanical engineer actually), but I did do some simple work and took good care of my bike, including pre-flighting and long warm up times. It got it's services on time and had the oil changed more often becuase I did not put a lot of miles on it but changed all the fluids every season as well as at service intervals. It still broke. I won't say I will never purchase a Buell again, but they have a long way to go to get me to consider it again, even with the super deal I can get at my friend's dealership. I don't care that Buell doesn't have the highest HP bike (although I would like to see them at least be in the running). I liked the styling of my bike and I loved the v-twin engine, but I could not stand the poor reliability and shoddy workmanship (you should have seen the fit of my "custom" Buell seat on the X1). I think I'm one of those customers that Court believes will be too expensive for Buell to win back. JustJoe | ||
| Josh |
Roger, If you're dealing with Chicago HD, good luck. Yes they offer 20%off in price but the customer service is marked down much lower. Call and get the name of the person you're talking to. Then always ask for that person when you call back. Then call back every few days. I've used Chi HD a few times and it's pretty hit and miss on customer service. Buell CS should be able to tell you when they shipped it and who received it at Chi HD. Chi HD should be able to tell you "Well, uhm, we uhm, ordered it with some stuff..." Note also that HD is reported to have changed their shipping strategy. Now shipment to a dealer will wait until there is a large order. This is so far unsubstantiated rumor. Josh | ||
| Grndskpr |
you missed my point, i should call the dealer for a part i paid for???guess what would happen if you did that in any other industry what would happen, i should call the dealer ask about a part i ordered for paid for and have not recived, sounds like a recipt for a lost customer, and guess what, they have, now do i go and file a claim with the state atourmey for mail fraud, sounds cut and dry dosnt it, so hear goes i work in the green industry, if a sales man dosnt get me what i want, i go else to another sales man, i do not have that option with buell, i still have to go to the dealer, so i am in a pinch, how to fix the problem, i am really going to have to think about that, especially since the have to be a harley dealer has been mentioned thinking in illinois ROger | ||
| Josh |
>(which I contend was not their fault because the SERVICE MANUAL had the wrong quantity listed) They've never serviced an EVO sporty? Besides that, what quantity? You fill to the bottom of the clutch basket. Since you don't get a "dry" tranny when you just drain the fluid you can't just dump in the amount specified. Kind of like pulling up to a gas pump after hitting reserve and adding 5.25gal of gas. Josh | ||
| Mikej |
Roger, Go to the dealer in person with your receipt in hand and request a refund, or proof that the part was in fact ordered. If you get the refund then shop elsewhere and document the time from order to receipt of part, then go back to the original dealer and speak with the owners. You may not want to go to all this effort, in which case just go get a refund and be done with them. By the way, there is no restocking charge if there is no part to restock. ps, I ordered a new dash plate for the '95 S2. It arrived in a week. I'll see how long it now takes to receive the sticker to put on it. (I decided to replace the dash instead of stuffing something into the hole made by a previous owner.) | ||
| Justjoe |
"They've never serviced an EVO sporty? Besides that, what quantity? You fill to the bottom of the clutch basket. Since you don't get a "dry" tranny when you just drain the fluid you can't just dump in the amount specified. Kind of like pulling up to a gas pump after hitting reserve and adding 5.25gal of gas. " Service manual had 1 full quart I believe, and correct amount was 28 oz. I think it's even listed in the Knowledge Vault here and it is definately on the X1 files. And I think you're wrong about the servicing the sporty thing. As an engineer, when I write instructions for something I've designed, I want the mechanic servicing that item to follow those instructions (that's why I wrote them after all). Even if it looks a lot like the previous generation design, I may have made some change that drove those new instructions. So I Blame Buell for the error in their manual. Please, I think the Buell Techs should absolutely follow the manuals, and not rely on previous sporty experience to fix Buells. It's the differneces between Buells and EVO sporty's that can really mess things up. JustJoe | ||
| Chibueller |
Roger, I've been dealing with Chicago HD for years. Last year I ordered my dad a windshield for Christmas. I was told 1 week and I called 2 times to confirm that things were in motion. Never once did they call me to say that it had arrived. I had to do that. My guess is that they tell you it'll be there in a week and that conversation serves as your notice. | ||
| Dan |
I have a friend who bought a '98 S3 and is looking for some modifications,visual and mechanical.I didn't have much luck in finding any info so far so i thought i ask the experts on this board. Second one is a X1 rider who is looking for a turbocharger, is it possible without converting to carb. | ||
| Daves |
Court, I'm a happy Bueller but I did a survey a while back on SACBORG about the poor service that seems to run rampant. I have all the responses in a file if you'd like to see them I'd gladly share them with you. I did forward them on to my DM and he supposedly sent them on up the food chain. I feel that the low level of customer treatment is a HUGE problem at the dealership level, one that needs to be corrected NOW if Buell is to prosper. Ride to the edge! Dave HD/Buell Cycle Center 4022 Sergeant Rd Waterloo Ia 50701 1-800-342-7539 ext 14 | ||
| Grndskpr |
Thanks guys, but i guess i am not really worried about the part, now that winter is here kinda, i will do what everone has said, i guess i just dont understand how they get away with it, well i know how, its just that when someone ask why we hate buell or why are we so negative or whats the problem, blah blah blah, maybe there needs to be a way to show buell, hey wake up, if your dealers suck, and they dont care how do you expect me to buy the thing, i mean really, i like the bike, ride it as much as i can, take prety good care of it, but if i can not get parts or its such a pain that its not worth it, why get the bike, i mean really, Chi is a good example, his buell sucks, buys a beemer, same owner as the hd shop, and its across the street, why is there service so much different, it just gets to be ununderstandable(not sure if thats a word), i mean really it across the street, and they do acording to Chi an much better job, so how can this be if the same owner has both dealers, its simple, BMW puts a higher standard on there dealers, and makes theme take care of the customer, it has to be unless there is another explination, if so please let me know: I think it was put best by a freind of mine, in the past HD has had to open there doors, and people would come in and give them money for a bike that was due in months sight unseen, now these same dealers that sell Buell, do the same thing and guess what, it doesnt work, why, beacuse Buell is not HD and never will be, How do you save the company, make it a long term company, not really sure, people now adays are different, they want what they want, some want a life style some want speed some want comfort and others who knows again i need time too think, ponder and come up with some long draw out way to fix it which in the end will be ingnored, my fear is that on day, buell will be the letters for just another harley aka fxdst whatever, or the b u e l l lightnig, and then slowly go away, seems ashame but would not suprise me, i will still think about it but really what good will it do sorry ROger | ||
| Libnosis |
ditto what Dan said | ||
| Road_Thing |
Satisfied times three. I have/had 3 tube frame Buells, and I am/was satisfied with all three. I do my own maintenance and (up to a point) repair. The bikes have been reliable, fun and fast enough for me. r-t |
