| Author | Message | ||
     Wyckedflesh |
Don, sometimes you get so vehemently set in defending our XB's you over look the small stuff. For instance, if you did an honest cost comaprison between what it takes to race an XB VS Sv650 you might be suprised to find that it will cost less over all for the Sv650 in order to have 2 bikes that may attack the tracks differently, but still cross the finish line in the same time frame. | ||
| M1combat |
Well... I can only say that the finer points of exactly what IS little probably differs between the two of us. I don't mean to just blindly defend the XB. I just see it as an exceptionally capable chassis with an engine that just needs a few thousand dollars run through it. It's the same story with an SV though. It's a perfectly capable motorcycle that just needs a few thousand dollars worth of money bolted into it. I really can't see why the occasional person comes around who just doesn't seem to be able to convey their grasp of what an XB is capable of being. It's more than an SV I assure you. To me, buying a bike is the first step in building a bike. Why would I start out with an inferior frame and geometry? Don't get me wrong... I'm not saying that the SV is anywhere close to a pile of junk. I'm sure they are good motorcycles, but IMO don't have what it takes to compare favorably to an XB in very many areas. The areas where the SV does compare favorably just aren't the areas that are important to me. | ||
| Court |
>>>>There is a lowering kit you can buy for the bike I forget who sells it but I have seen it available. Call Tim at WestTek | ||
| Reepicheep |
Having logged a decent amount of seat time on SV's (several) and XB's (several) I would never trade my XB motor for an SV motor. Not even the XB9. I also don't see why I would bolt an extra 7 pounds of unsprung rotating mass on my *STREETBIKE* because somebody somewhere on the track managed to overheat a single rotor perimiter setup. I'm a big fan of the SV-650 (don't care much for the SV1000 though). A close friend owns one because I told him to go buy it, I basically sold the bike for the dealer. Another friend did NOT buy it (after I sold it for the dealer as well) and has since indicated he wished he did. He got a ZR-7 instead, which is a great all around bike as well, but is perhaps *too* all around. I was helping a buddy fix his SV (while my Buell was sitting there needing nothing and working perfectly  ). It was sitting right there in my garage, 10 feet from my 9sx. I looked piece by piece over the bike, and did not see *any* part I would want to move from the SV to the XB. The SV-650 is great bang for the buck though, and a bike I highly recommend if you can't afford an XB, or don't know if you are going to be serious about the sport of motorcycling, or if you expect to wreck the bike often (i.e. track use). I would much rather see somebody on an SV-650 then any of the 600 cc inline fours. | ||
| Eeeeek |
M1Combat: The proof is in the results. First, I never said put a GSXR front end on an XB, I just said it was cheap to put one on an SV and that gives you a solid front end and better brakes. Why, oh why does Bell have a special 8 piston coliper for their race bikes? Because they needed more stopping power. I could go on and on; but, I'll get right to the point. For $5,000, I have an SV that's highly competetive in middleweight twins and Formula IV. To get the same competetiveness out of an XB, I'd need to spend more money. I've more than casually looked into it. Sure, there are upgrades available for the XB. There are fewer companies making them, so they are more expensive and less available. I'm not some ignorant jackass just spouting ••••. I've researched this and I'm giving you the results I've found. Can the XB be made into a better race bike? Yes, I think so. Can it be done for anything less than double the price of a well set up SV? No, I don't think so. I would do better to buy a bike for half the price that is as competetive and put difference into track days and race schools. Vik | ||
| Firstbuell |
Jeesh, I just HAVE to weigh in on this one..... First off, if you don't race, just stop posting against what Vik is so calmly stating, aka, the basic $$ truth. We all love Buells [especially FMJ & the Vallejo dealership], but a prepped SV makes tons more sense for a beginning racer to learn which end's up. Vik said it all quite well, especially the part about money spent on track days vs. exotic XB pieces. As a long-time proddy competitor, I can vouch for the usefulness of being out on the track astride a reliable, competitive machine, rather than broken down in the pits with an exotic one-off. Anybody remember: the Harley/Aermacchi RR250 vs Yamaha TD250; Buell's own RW750 vs. Yamaha TZ750; Ducati 750SS vs Suzuki/Kaw 1000? If you've raced, you get it..... | ||
| Eeeeek |
Wow, good to hear from you again, Curt. I still remember the first time I went on a ride with you and you left me for dust on your M2. I think you surprized more than a couple of people. FMJ: Did you hear what Shawn said about outbraking 250's with the new front end? He was giggling! I think after they get the sputtering problem figured out, he has areal shot at a podium on that XB. I'll let you guys do all the deveopment work before I decide if I want to fly the Buell banner again.  M1: Where have you seen this quote before: "Changes I'd like to see the factory make: Probably build it for 8.5K RPM's, maybe a 6 speed tranny..." And I don't think you can you determine if I'm just in a hurry and critique my riding style as I don't think you've ever seen me ride either the street or the track. When I'm evaluating students on the track, I watch them ride before I tell them what they're doing wrong. Vik | ||
| M1combat |
"Changes I'd like to see the factory make: Probably build it for 8.5K RPM's, maybe a 6 speed tranny..." It's in my profile. That would be for an over drive though. Street use. So far, the only good reason to go with an SV instead of an XB is price and a seemingly mis-informed idea that the SV is a more viable combination of reliability and ease of maintenance on a race track. Maybe... but the XB is still easier to ride IMO. I suppose it's just different strokes, but to me it seems that when going racing, one should always start out with the best chassis they can afford. XB's aren't THAT much more expensive than SV's... | ||
| Bigj |
Vik: Quit muddying the waters with the truth  | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Vik, When you going to be up in the north woods again? I'd love to buy you a beer or three. Brad | ||
| Eeeeek |
Brad, I should be up in MN in late July. M1, I'm going to try my best to not sound condescending here. These are facts as I see it. Sv's are common as muck. Consequently, lots of people have tried lots of things with them. By choosing an SV, I can leverage the benefit of scores of racers that came before me. I can buy an SV and have a massive knowledge vault of settings that work, parts that work, etc. You can not underemphasize how valuable that is. I'm watching a well funded team, sponsored and supported by one of the truly good Buell dealers, work on building an XB into a bike to compete with SV's. They are largely on their own, pioneering new ground. They ditched that front end you are so fond of to get better braking and control and that worked for them. They have spent countless hours on the dyno trying to tune the engine for the best reliable performance. They found out very quickly that the starter could no longer handle the engine. In their first showing, they got beat by more than a couple of SV's. This was with a hired gun rider who has won multiple classes, inclduing 650 twins and open production. They are still in the development process and trying to track down some FI issues. They are hardly a low budget, easy effort and they aren't done yet. I think they have a chance of building a winning bike and if they do, I may follow the path they blazed. The point I'm making is that I am not misinformed and your perception is not grounded in reality. Vik | ||
| Buellsnblondes |
Eeeeek- Well said! I'm faced with a tough choice since giving up street riding. I have a low mileage 03 XB9R that I thought about selling to purchase a well prepped SV to run in CCS Lightweight classes. After thinking about it for a while, I've opted to prep my XB for the track. From a cost perspective, the initial setup for an SV and XB are about the same as long as engine mods aren't made. Suspension goodies (Penske shock revalved and sprung correctly, fork springs and a fork massage job) will run about $1600. The biggest difference is the chain conversion which will probably run between $800 and $1500. I haven't decided if I want to do the conversion yet, after all, this is only club racing and I'm just out to have a good time. As of this posting, the bike will compete June 5th with just the race ecm and exhaust, and the stock suspension setup with the proper race sag, which took the stock suspension adjustments to their limits for this 215lb rider. The bike dyno'd at 80.6 hp after 5100 mile, torque is at 67lbs. The hp number is a bit better than what most of the local SV's are putting out, and there really is no comparision torque wise. I'll be on Pirrelli Super Corsa's, with no steering damper. The other suspension mods will have to wait until late June due to finances, as I also run an EX 500 in the Ultralight class, and have done well with it in the Lightweight classes with a whopping 50 hp and 31 lbs torque. Of course, it's suspension has all the goodies and I can hang with the SV's into and out of corners, just don't have the motor for them down the straights. Advice in this area- I'd say that it's important to define what it is you hope to accomplish, ie.. future AMA star, or occasional club racer, and go from there. The SV's are great bikes and there are tons of go fast parts for them, but ultimately a rider has to make it all work...and that equates to seat time and determination!!!!! Regards, Ed | ||
| Rocketman |
How the hell anyone can compare an XB to an SV I'll never know. What you're actually talking about is adapting a motorcycle to fit your needs. Because you've got two motorcycles in your sights doesn't make for a legitimate comparison. Put simply an XB is a zillion miles different from an SV no matter how you dress up the equation to suit your needs. As if you need anymore proof just look at them both. One's a mass produced very capable and functional motorcycle but the other is something much much more. Rocket | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Rocket, I'm touched... I'll be riding my XB at the track! | ||
| Buelliedan |
Everything is perspective. Racing cost a buttload of money if you are footing the bill. An SV is much cheaper to race than an XB without a doubt. But to many the cost is not an issue if you truly love Buells. Hell, there are many guys racing Ducatti 749s. Definately a lot more expensive than an XB. So what is importnat to you? | ||
| Choptop |
So far, the only good reason to go with an SV instead of an XB is price and a seemingly mis-informed idea that the SV is a more viable combination of reliability and ease of maintenance on a race track. baaaaaaaaaa ahahahahahahahahaaaa !!!!! *deep breath* baaahahahahaaaa.... oh thats a good one. Thanks, I havent laughed that hard in a long time. wow. } | ||
| Rex |
American Sport Bike Night Ride Schedule - 2005 12th Annual Blue Butt Rally 8/13/05 See the following website for additional information: http://www.bknv2.com/bluebuttflyer.htm This will be an overnighter and its put on by the Blue Nights, a classy group for a good cause. American Sport Bike Customer Appreciation BBQ 8/29/05 A long way to go for a hotdog, but the ride down there will be a hoot and the company will be worth every mile. This will be an overnighter. Escalon Peach Milk Shake Run Yosemite Option 6/16-17/05 Cholesterol never tasted so good! Ride on out and have the best milk shake you ever slurped. Burgers and fries too. Well bolt on out, eat up, and then head home whenever the mood hits. The Option ride is to go on to Yosemite and stay one night, returning the next day. More info coming regarding accommodation options. Rider Radio Field Trip Hey Woz, what happens when I push this button? This is a destination ride to see the humble beginnings of Rider Radio. We expect bigger things in the future!! A studio tour and then a lunch ride at an eatery to be announced. The studio is located in San Francisco. Various Coffee Rides Various Dates Parking lot fellowship, exhaust fumes, and caffeine! These events require little planning and yield a big return. Be sure to make as many of these as you can, or suggest a location in your geographic area and well descend like a thick swarm of flies!! E-mail your ideas in to the American Sport Bike Night Webmaster for posting. Then put it together. Vente Lattes Rule!! o May 26th, 7:00 PM Rex is hosting o Clayton Station Starbucks o 1536 Kirker Pass Road A o Clayton CA, 94517 o June 16th, 7:00 PM Jack is hosting o Starbucks o 398 Hartz Avenue o Danville CA, 94526 o July 28th, 7:00 PM Woz is hosting o Starbucks o 8400 Edgewater Drive o Oakland CA, 94621 o August 25th, 7:00 PM Jon is hosting o Castro Village Starbucks o 20663 Rustic Drive o Castro Valley CA, 94546 o September 15th, 7:00 PM Rex is hosting o Willow Pass Square Starbucks o 2118 Willow Pass Rd, Suite 100A o Concord, CA 94520 Friction Zone Recommended Ride #1 Katys Corner Destination Ride San Ramon Friction Zone Recommended Ride #2 The Sand Dollar Restaurant Destination Ride Stinson Beach Friction Zone Recommended Ride #3 Main Street Bistro Destination Ride Hollister International Motorcycle Show The last American Sport Bike Night ride. Sometime in November, well get together for breakfast and then go to the show in San Mateo. Date to be announced. | ||
| M1combat |
You're welcome... Care to explain why that was so funny? I've got 14K miles on my XB and I beat the dog snot out of it. I've had a trans output shaft fail. That's it. It was replaced under warranty. Oh, and the staples that hold the seat together came apart, I got that replaced under warranty as well. On the off chance that you didn't understand my statement... I didn't say that the XB is either more reliable OR easier to fix. I indicated that it may be a blend of those two characteristics that IMO is more favorable than the SV blend. | ||
| Choptop |
well, I'm assuming... and correct me if I'm wrong... that you have not set up, or raced either bike... so prolly wouldnt REALLY know which one is a more viable track bike, to set up, maintain or count on from a reliability stand point. well you did say.... seemingly mis-informed idea that the SV is a more viable combination of reliability and ease of maintenance on a race track. seeing as there is little no data on the XB as a track/race bike... and TONS on the SV... its kinda funny... you assume one is mis-informed by favoring the SV. | ||
| Choptop |
as for front ends.... Those that are much better at racing than I... favor putting a GSXR front end on their bike. I've yet to see anyone put an XB front end on. maybe you know something they all dont? as to making an XB competitive with a Mille, 998.... you GOT to be kidding. Dont get me wrong, the XB is a great little bike, but... damn.... I'd suggest getting out on the track with these bikes, pushing them HARD, racing them... before ya make statements like that. | ||
| Choptop |
twisty road - on the track..... two different things. yer assuming that one doesnt read a bunch of sites all the time, and choose to chime in on topics. Not poking at anyone, just adding a little bit of direct knowledge to the discussion  | ||
| Davegess |
Picking a race bike; I don't think it can be a comparason game like we are playing. First the only reason the two bikes are compared is because they race in the same class. That has nothing, absolutly nothing to do with which is a better motorcycle just how the organizers think each bike will do on the track, how competitive would they be with each other in an AS RACED configuration. Second which one you pick to race would depend on your budget, your tastes, what you do or do not want to do to a bike. Picking one over the other would not be a slight to either bike. Third if you don't think the XB would be the most cost effective way to be competitive in the class than don't buy it. Those who disagreee should buy one and try it. EITHER WAY IT SAYS NOTHING ABOUT HOW WELL THE BIKE GOES ABOUT THE JOB IT WAS DESIGNED FOR. Taking any street bike to the race track is a lot like trying to make a silk purse out of a pigs ear. It will cost money and never be as good as a bike that started life as a race bike. | ||
| Eeeeek |
Dave, I agree with every one of your statements. Vik | ||
| Choptop |
Stand up and say all ya like... but be ready for someone to refute it. particularly when you start saying things like... An XB can be made comptetive with a Mille or 998 The XB front end is better than a Gixxer front end paraphrasing of course. Nothing wrong with that taking up an opposing side of an opinion, its called debate.. it makes life lively. | ||
| Choptop |
point taken. I'll go back to racing my Mille and Gixxer, working up an XB race bike, and try to leave the sarcasm out of my comments. carry on. (Message edited by Choptop on May 18, 2005) (Message edited by Choptop on May 18, 2005) | ||
| Superdave |
I don't get this whole argument thing. They're just opinions. Opinions aren't fact, or truth, they're only opinions. Opinions can't even be truly debated. So what's the point? There isn't a day that goes by that someone doesn't have something negative to say about my scooter. The common "opinion" being, "That sure is an ugly motorcycle". My response is usually "What's your point?" I don't ride what I ride so others will like it, or respect it. I ride it 'cause my butt likes it, my emotions like it, my soul likes it. No opinion can take that away from me. Oops...I'm off track. So maybe I'm stupid, but I just don't get it. | ||
| Mikej |
Don't worry about it Superdave, some folks just got tangled up in the discussion is all. They'll get it sorted out soon enough though.  |
