| Author | Message | ||
     Whitey |
Been a Buelligan since my first ride on one in 96. Had the pleasure of meeting Erik on two occasions 2001, in Daytona when he was telephoned by a member of BRAG and told a Limey wanted to meet him. We conversed for more than 20 minutes, the second occasion, I gate crashed a dealer do by Warrs HD at Brands Hatch. MY ultimate moment was seeing the King on my Bike and the kind words about my custom S3. Also attached is my four Loves, their Tags show my commitment to the best motorcycle in the world IMHO, problems or not, they were and are great motorcycles. My heart felt thoughts go out to Erik, family and employees at E Troy. Again I had the pleasure of visiting the unit to see a cottage industry in full effect. Once again HD have ripped the heart out of a product, where they obviously cannot see $$$$$$ rolling in. I also see they believe in censorship in a Country I believed was founded on free speach....LOL    | ||
| Skifastbadly |
This sucks for the employees. I've been on both sides of this type of decision. Business is business. The inevitability of this is clear, in hindsight. The bikes have soul, no doubt. I love my Ulysses. But Buell had three strikes against it: 1) Quality. I have had a lot of problems with my Uly, including rear bearings, the voltage regulator, the exhaust actuator, the "77" connector, leaking front fork seals, the fan, the rocker gaskets, and a two month episode where the bike was in the shop while we argued over who would pay for the headers coming off the bike. I've written about that earlier here. And currently, I've got some strange electrical gremlin causing the bike to skip and the check engine light to go on. This bike only has 23K miles on it. If it were just me, I'd write it off to extremely bad luck, but these bikes are known for many of these issues. The electrical stuff, especially. 2) A distribution network (that would be the HD shops) which vary in their attitude from mildly enthusiastic to downright hostile. Fairly common knowledge. And this is HD's fault. They should never have tolerated it. Can you imagine what would happen of HD Corporate got word that one of their stores wasn't really trying very hard to push the HD brand? They would have been cut off immediately. Yet, HD let this go on at the Buell shops. Total mismanagement. 3) Marketing. From hardly any to "Hey, we crushed a Blast. Glad you bought one for your wife now?" Just stupid. Any one of these by itself might have been enough to put Buell out of business but the three of them together was a perfect storm. I happened to be in a HD shop yesterday that carries Buells. I was there to pick up a Pirelli Scorpion Sync front for my Uly. I got into an interesting discussion with the parts guy. He said "We sold four Buells this year. We have all this inventory (They had a Uly, a Lightning, a couple of CRs, and a Blast) that just sits here. We don't sell enough parts to keep them in stock. That's why we had to order a tire for you, we only sell about 2500 in Buell parts a year, there's no use keeping them in stock." It's a shame but as stated that's business. The above I already posted to ADV. The following, I'm limiting to this group. Ten years ago, I was put in a position where I had to kill a product under somewhat similar circumstances. It was a manufacturing software product called SmartCAM. This software had a fanatical following. I worked for a company called SDRC which had purchased another company which owned the rights to SmartCAM. I closed it down to focus our resources on our main product. The customer base and reseller base went batshit, as they knew I would. But they didn't pay my salary, SDRC did, and we needed the resources. Here's the thing. Years later, the SmartCAM product remained wildly popular. A friend of mine looked at the situation, and resurrected the brand. It's now a very profitable, if smaller, company. The customers can still use, get support for, and buy more SmartCAM, which is being continuously developed. There could very well be a parallel here. | ||
| Zac4mac |
Frank came up today. Picked up a White/Blue 1125R and an XB12Scg for less than Loretta cost me. It's been WELL worth it to have had Loretta since 2007. Next week, she'll have 25 k miles and I'll be rotating the engine when I get back from East Troy. Hope my tires hold out, 4k and looking very fat. As Hunter Thompson said, "When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro". Picked up a T-shirt in Telluride that said that... Z | ||
| Slinky |
In June me and my dad planned/scheduled a tour of the Buell factory for Oct 16. (hindsight being 20/20...) So I called on thursday, but no one answered. So on friday we went down anyway, not knowing what to expect. Well after some waiting and talking to Donna, she hooked us up with a tour. One of the engineers, Gus took us through for about 2 hours. The line wasn't running but for these people to take the time to do this the day after all this went down speaks wonders. Everyone involved is in my prayers, and ANYTHING I can do to help I will. Slinky  | ||
| Court |
I have spoken to a number of Elves in the last couple days, several this evening. One thing needs to be noted. Harley-Davidson is going light years above and beyond what is necessary to help the workers. Tons of services, they got great severance and they are getting LOTS of help. I was pleased to hear this and knowing Flick I am not the least bit surprised. He hasn't gotten a lot of press in this but my heart goes out to him as well. He's been tremendously committed to the Buell way of doing things. He's got to be as shaken as Erik. | ||
| 20buellteam |
Eulysses has the best crystal ball here. It's driven by the mighty short term $. I too have (after 30 yrs), personally been involved in hostile takeovers, Equity ownership, employee ownership, public, private and out of country ownership, I've been on the verge of going under- you can just about name it. The H-D guys did not say Buell was for sale in 2009 for tax benefit reasons among probably other bean counting reasons. Erik Buell and his innovations are H-D property like it or not. I signed away my right to claim personal ownership of my engineering money maker ideas (and I have had to repeat it with each new owner) the second day I accepted my engineering position. Don't you think Eric and his team did the same? Mark my words Buell's innovations have real value(recent racing success is testament to this), and H-D will cash in when the time is right. | ||
| Chadhargis |
At first I thought it might be a vendetta on the part of someone at HD, but then I stopped and thought about corporate politics. A company as large as HD has a LOT of corporate red tape. I'm betting it takes a meeting of 6 people to get a roll of toilet paper put in the bathroom. Because of this, you would have had to have a lot of people agree to do this. Someone would have had to put together a business case to spend the type of money they are spending to shelve Buell. That had to have been a damn strong business case to get the votes needed to do what they did. My thought is that there are plans for Buell. I think those plans are very hush, hush, and what made Erik so upset is having his team sent packing just to save HD a few bucks. Erik is a smart man, and I know there are things he's not saying as well he shouldn't. He's a man of his word. What the future holds, I don't know. But if it was just a money thing, HD would have sold off Buell. The mumbo jumbo about access to Harley dealers and being engrained, yadda, yadda, yadda is all for people stupid enough to believe that. They could have sold the name, patents, factory, and marketing rights to Buell and nothing else. It's done every day. The new owner would have had to establish a dealer network, and if they wanted to continue selling the XB line, get a contract with HD to supply the engines (more money for HD). Something is in the works. Buell isn't dead. I have a feeling we'll see SOMETHING. When? I don't know. What? I don't know. But none of this makes sense to me as a business man. You don't shut down a company that isn't failing. If you need money, you don't squash an asset, you sell it. HD still sees value in Buell, or they wouldn't have kept them. The more I think about it, the more I think it's a tax move or a very big marketing gamble. I'm betting EVERY moto mag will have Buell on the cover next month. Keep them down a bit, then reopen, and you'll get more press. Ok, I'm probably dreaming on this one....but just thinking out loud. | ||
| Jaimec |
Something like the "New Coke" fiasco of decades back? | ||
| F_skinner |
The more I think about this and the decisions of HD over the last two years it reminds of another point in HDs history. It reminds me of the AMF take over, Poor decisions by people that did not understand the motorcycle industry and instead of managing a company they were managing stock prices. I am writing a letter to Flick, not to bash HD but to thank him for his support. I think he was the only HD upper management that I ever met and the fact that he showed up at three Buell events that I was at says a lot. I wonder how he is taking this? I bet he is as sad as we are. After all, he rides a XB. I am sure he rides other bikes but he knows what it is about. I remember one year at Sturgis when the CEO of Harley showed up in a limo dressed in a suit. I think he missed the point. LOL Flick should be running the show. | ||
| Hughlysses |
+1 on Flick. He seems like he "gets it". | ||
| Court |
>>>Flick should be running the show. That's an accurate statement. He's smart, honest and his values are strong. I have not spoken to him yet. I'd wager he was as crushed as Erik was. Flick is good people. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
question for Court: Was the new Buell marketing and ad campaign with B.O.B. all done by Harley Davidson? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Something is in the works. Buell isn't dead. I have a feeling we'll see SOMETHING. Yea, sport bikes produced by HD. | ||
| Court |
>>>Was the new Buell marketing and ad campaign with B.O.B. all done by Harley Davidson? 100% As were the goofy shirts, the gloves that lasted 3 weeks and the tank bags that shed the zipper. Buell, last Thursday, was thrilled to be informed that that crap will no longer be stuffed up their ass with the "take it an shut up" attitude. There were a number of component that were just downright embarrassing that were thrust on Buell my 25 year old marketing folks. That won't happen again. Harley-Davidson will not produce sportbikes. | ||
| Elvis |
Harley-Davidson will not produce sportbikes. I hope the Harley brass are as sure of that as you are. If so, they should be willing to sell the asset for a reasonable price. My biggest fear is that they think they may be able to use it at some point but have no current plans. So they'll lock everything away in a safe. And 10 years from now everybody will be asking: "What ever happened to all that great Buell technology?" | ||
| Nxtr |
My prediction is that Yamaha will own HDI by this time next year... I could be wrong, but then again we're in a never before economic crisis no one saw coming... JMHO... V/R, Nick | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Elvis said "And 10 years from now everybody will be asking: "What ever happened to all that great Buell technology?" I agree Elvis. Probably true, but reading these threads many of Erik's patents being used on todays bikes are fairly old things he created and I will be waiting for the "new" ideas he will come up with if the BMC rises up again. I'll bet he is already thinking, planning and working on new/better technology and should be free from HD to pursue them. And he probably has some already. Let HD use his old stuff all they want. By the time they evolve on any bike they bring out, even in the short future, it will be somewhat outdated by then. The future is near at hand. It'll just take some logistical doing and some good investors. Bob | ||
| Missin44 |
My prediction is that Yamaha will own HDI by this time next year... What basis do you have to say that? I've seen zero to support any such thing. | ||
| Court |
Babies with guns. Harley-Davidson "having" the technology does nothing for them but bog them down. What Buell has done is the result of a culture and a way of doing business. Harley-Davidson, as much as they hate it and further hate to admit it, can't break out of the "way we've always done it" chains that bind them. Case in point is the XR1200 . . not a daunting project to be sure but some of you recall the 3 year period when they announced "here we come" until the bike appeared on the market. I'd like to tell you that was do to crappy marketing. Fact is it was due to a plethora of engineering problems with the transmission and the inability, due to internal politics and territorial battles, to resolve them. Not all were resolved but the bike was considered "good enough". Good thing . . it's one of the few bright spots in their current market. . . $10,000 Sportster are a tough sell and are going to get tougher. You could walk the Elves out the door of 2719 Buell Drive . . . bring in 90 HD line personnel and NEVER be able to build a Buell. The future is near at hand. The key is not repeating past mistakes. There is no shortage of willing investors. I had two calls last Thursday by the time the sun had set. One was a fellow with $1.5B who was ready to transfer the funds the following day . . . The key is to see what can be done and then doing the right thing. I'm going to be a bit silent for a couple days. I've been tasked. In addition, I've been contacted by a number of Elves with needs and am going to devote some time to helping them. Thank you to all of you for your friendship, trust, confidence and support. You can't possibly imagine how much it means. You are the ones who realize that the part of Buell that is powerful is not a motorcycle but rather a mindset, a culture, a way of thinking . . there are no patents, legal constraints or impediments that can bridle that. My favorite quote of the week . .
If you need to entertain yourself . . . go take another close look at the financial results that HD announced last Thursday. What Erik Buell does, it occurs to me, is the least of their problems. At the current "burn rate" Harley-Davidson will be ashes before I put the next set of tires on the truck. Buell was a penny in a Harley-Davidson created $100,000,000 poor financial strategy. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . my personal thanks to the Elves who sent the note to me . . .
I loved it. I have a habit of being tenacious and winning. Eager to see where all this ends up. | ||
| Brumbear |
Lemonade baby lemonade | ||
| Guell |
Im with Court on this, now that the pain and anger is fading. I only see good things of this. This is not the end | ||
| Nxtr |
"My prediction is that Yamaha will own HDI by this time next year... What basis do you have to say that? I've seen zero to support any such thing." It's JMHO, and me making a prediction, based on what I am seeing, nothing more nothing less… HDI, is getting killed in this economic slowdown. At the current rate the only thing they'll be introducing new next year is their annual Christmas tree ornament. After the public outcry on how the government bailed out the banks and Big 3, only to have Chrysler sold off to the Italians. Do you really feel that Uncle O is going to save HDI? I’m going to go out on a limb here and say, NOT… HDI say’s it’s trying to trim itself down at the same time planning to introduce HD products in India. I am sure the business models flow well and highlight the fact that in India, despite the less than lucrative annual household income, there is the potential to tap into their ever increasing motorcycles sales market. It’s just that someone may want to explain that those motorcycle sales are more like 80cc’s not 80ci’s. Again this is all JMHO. I really don’t care if Aermacchi resurrected itself and had Erik and the Elves cranking out sport bikes, I would buy one… But logical thinking says Yamaha, and until we can get a better read on where all this is going I will continue to enjoy my 08 1125R (even though I am down waiting on the clutch spew fix) until Erik and the Elves bring out something new, that’ll increase the perma grin I get every time I ride my 1125R... V/R, Nick (Message edited by nxtr on October 18, 2009) | ||
| F_skinner |
I've been contacted by a number of Elves with needs and am going to devote some time to helping them. Please do, they (the Elves) are what count. As you well know if you need anything from us we are right here. Go get'em Court. | ||
| Oddball |
Dealer I was in today was a quiet place. Parts counter was where all the action was. The firm price stand HD likes is starting to crack in places. I've seen many models reduced a few K. The financial arm is definitely in need, I've witnessed someone make deal with them that never would have flown a year or two ago. XR is a neat bike. If I can't get an XB it's my only other choice left. I wonder if DMG can be talked into letting XBs run in that xr1200 racing class? I think many here would enjoy watching them battle. Ok, more like sadistic pleasure as XBs mop the floor with XRs. | ||
| A10tankkill |
NXtr, Harley's financial arm did get into the government bail out action. They still end up eating all the bad loans and show them on the books, but they have the government as a backdrop to give them the ability to keep making loans. I forget now how much they borrowed, but it was quite a bit. Just like in the housing market, the people who were buying the $15,000 - $30,000 Harleys couldn't afford them, but the Harley lending arm did the same as the mortgage companies and gave a wink and nod approval. | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Court, I thing you missed a digit there... HOG(NYSE) has a BILLION dollar problem. | ||
| Joojoo |
Hey from Toronto! Good news. Erik Buell will continue to build motorcycles, and we will hear about these wonderful creations quicker than we think. He has no choice. Let me explain. When I saw his face - I saw a man who was sad because he was scared for the future of his team. Not a man who was sad about not being able to build Buell motorcycles anymore. This has nothing to do with building the hardware. The great bikes from Buell are just the side effect of the healthy team that he loves, and helped to lead and create. As far as designing & building bikes go - of course he will!!! He has no choice. Creative artists have no choice. You see - if he doesn't go back to his passion, he will, like most passionate people would, go insane. A person that has to create music, WILL CREATE MUSIC. I think you get my point. I cant wait to see what this phenomenal artist of physics and metal and geometry does next!! Ride safe! | ||
| Pragmatic |
"My prediction is that Yamaha will own HDI by this time next year... What basis do you have to say that? I've seen zero to support any such thing." If any motorcycle company were to buy HD it would be Yamaha. They've always tried to beat Honda in volume. In the late sixties thru mid seventies their ramp up of production in this pursuit was one of the reasons there was such a bike glut and low prices in the early 80's. I remember people buying 2 year old bikes brand new for approximately 1/2 off. The low dollar will help them but the economic condition of Japan will hurt them. | ||
| Hex |
Thanks Court, I couldn't agree more with your optimism. The worst of all news would have been that EB had died. Beyond that, life is negotiable! Phoenix MotoCo. here we come! HD will be bankrupt with in a year. Sale to follow... |
