| Author | Message | ||
     Thespive |
How exactly did it come about that Erik was able to outsource engine work when they are a subsidiary of a company that builds engines? Is Buell truly stand alone from HD, or does H-D wield an amount of influence and had to be convinced. And why not feed the specs to H-D for HD to build the engine? Were they trying to prevent another V-Rod debocle? Is there a back story here of how the new engine came to fruition? Don't get me wrong, the new engine seems fantastic (and if the rumors are true and there are air-cooled versions of this engine, look out!), and I am happy of the buell/Rotax alliance, but I am just curious and have been meaning to ask, but wanted the dust to settle a bit. --Sean | ||
| Court |
Next question . . . . . .  HD is set up and tooled up to do a certain type of engine. This model needed something different. | ||
| Thespive |
Thanks for the quick response (eventhough is sounds like the company line), and I sure do miss our conversations on the phone, maybe you can fill me in sometime. Or maybe I will just read about it when I am helping to edit your book. I am going to keep digging until I find a real answer, though. You know that right?  This engine is obviously at the heart of Buell's future, so I think I'll keep enjoying the hell out of my CityX and buy in when the engine, or versions of it, make it in to other products. Okay, one more question that you will probably not answer - Why the heck is it called Helitron? Thanks Court! --Sean | ||
| Thespive |
Thanks for the call Court, good to chat with you again. ;) --Sean | ||
| Anonymous |
Mount Helicon is a mountain in the region of Thespiai in Boeotia, Greece (Kerenyi, 1951, page 172), with an elevation of 1,749 meters (5,735 ft). It is located just off the Gulf of Corinth. The mountain was made famous in Greek mythology because two springs sacred to the Muses were located here: the Aganippe and the Hippocrene, both of which bear "horse" (hippos) in their toponym. This was related to the myth that the Hippocrene spring was created when the winged horse Pegasus aimed his hoof at a rock, striking it with such force that the spring burst from the spot. | ||
| Ridrx |
Thus far it appears to be a rather fitting name...well done BMC. | ||
| Thespive |
Anony, I no longer hate the name... Thank you. --Sean | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Were they trying to prevent another V-Rod debocle? What V-Rod debacle? I'm unaware that one ever existed. | ||
| Thespive |
Then you must be new to BadWeb! --Sean | ||
| Slaughter |
Debacle, WHAT debacle? There's no V-Rod debacle if you re-define spending upwards of $20M to develop/tool and produce the first bike and they have yet to sell, what 3500 worldwide? | ||
| Mikej |
(Message edited by mikej on July 10, 2007) | ||
| Naustin |
The mountain was made famous in Greek mythology because two springs sacred to the Muses were located here: the Aganippe and the Hippocrene, both of which bear "horse" (hippos) in their toponym. This was related to the myth that the Hippocrene spring was created when the winged horse Pegasus aimed his hoof at a rock, striking it with such force that the spring burst from the spot. Now that is COOL. Copy-Paste that into my personal notebook! Nick | ||
| Buellshyter |
Interesting but I wonder why there is no name for the bike. | ||
| Naustin |
I hadn't thought of that... But then again, the XBRR didn't have one either. Perhaps Buell is emphasizing their racing intent and implying that only pure street models get names while bikes intened for racing don't? Or maybe they're just to exhausted from designing and building the bike to go though a 6 month marketing process to designate an acceptable name... LOL. Or maybe the name is yet to be announced? (Message edited by naustin on July 10, 2007) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Judging by the logos on the bikes themselves, and the splash at the beginning of the little vidlet, and the name of the minisite...1125r *is* the name. I like it. Purposeful, not trying to be cutesy or anything like that...although I do like the Harrier (as in jump jet) nickname that's floating around badweb in other threads. Might make a good "unoffical" name... | ||
| 07xb12scg |
Interesting but I wonder why there is no name for the bike. To make the 1125R as Jap-like as possible... I'M KIDDING! Now it's just too fun... It is sort of odd that they didn't give it a name, but the tubers really didn't have names did they? Most of the Jap bikes don't have names, but some of the things coming out of Europe are starting to get named - Shiver, MP3, etc. Maybe the trend of names is coming back around. IMO 1125R sounds more serious and performance minded than Firebolt, but that's just my personal opinion. | ||
| Thespive |
I am talking about H-D taking the V-Rod motor from Buell and making it big, heavy, and shiney. --Sean | ||
| José_quiñones |
V-ROD HITS 50,000 LANDMARK A stunning VRSCSE Screamin’ Eagle V-Rod recently made an important piece of history at Harley-Davidson’s Kansas City plant. The cool two-tone Electric Orange machine was the 50,000th performance cruiser to roll out of the Kansas City factory since production of the V-Rod started in 2001. The 50,000th V-Rod was produced through a joint effort between the VRSC production team and the Motor Company’s Custom Vehicle Operations (CVO) arm which specialises in producing exceptional, limited-edition Harley-Davidson custom motorcycles. The landmark machine was immediately shipped to its new owner. During the last four years the VRSC V-Rod has won over 30 major awards from the design industry and international motorcycle press and has attracted a range of high-profile owners including seven-time Formula 1 world champion Michael Schumacher and Real Madrid star David Beckham. Also produced on the same line at Kansas City is the latest member of the VRSC family, the VRSCR Street Rod. A combination of muscular style and agile performance, the Street Rod is decidedly more aggressive with its upright riding position, inverted front forks, 40-degree lean angle, 1130cc Revolution V-Twin engine and tuned suspension. ENDS. To download this press release and supporting pictures please visit www.h-dmediaeurope.com (press and pr section). | ||
| José_quiñones |
The rest is HERE | ||
| Thespive |
If I was going to buy a Harley again (I am not in the foreseeable future), I would get a Vrod, love the sound, look and l love riding it. --Sean | ||
| Mikej |
Thank you Jose, I thought that number sounded low. I'll go chew on my other shoe now. | ||
| Buellshyter |
Yea, the V-Rod isn't the flop some make it out to be. I see plenty of them in my area. | ||
| Jlnance |
How exactly did it come about that Erik was able to outsource engine work when they are a subsidiary of a company that builds engines? It's not as unusual as you might think. Large companies organize themselves in divisions. Part of the reason for this is to keep the finances of each division separate so they can make sure everyone is pulling their weight. When the divisions do work for each other, they charge each other. At the end of the day, the divisions that don't turn a profit get eliminated. To make this work, companies are reluctant to force their divisions to do business with each other. If they force a business relationship, it removes the competitive pressure which would foster improvements. | ||
| Thespive |
I didn't say it was unusual and I do know how large companies work in generalities, my question was specific to this project and this company. Thanks though, --Sean | ||
| Slaughter |
Yep - Jose has the CORRECT numbers on V-Rod production. I was victim myself of what I bitch about others doing: repeating info I had heard without checking the data. Since I'm not a fan of the bike, it didn't matter much BUT I am probably an example in this case of HOW and WHY urban legends start and continue. Sorry about that - and thanks Jose for the numbers AND the sources! | ||
| Blake |
BMC is a subsidiary of HDI, not HDMC, which is the motor builder. No name... "To make the 1125R as Jap-like as possible..."? You mean like the "Ninja", and "Fireblade"? "ohwell" I'm crusading for a name for the bike. I heard a rumor that the "R" is in honor of "Rocketman".  | ||
| Tintin74 |
Back to the original question, BMW also uses the Rotax engines (F650 single and F800 twins), while they have in-house flat twins and 4-in-line. Many smaller italian brands use or used Japanese engines. Suzuki twins for bikes or Yamaha singles for small scooters. Aprilia of course used rotax singles and the V60 twin. Being French I also would like to mention the Voxan brand which is a total fiasco... They saw it big and developed their own engine (100HP 1000cc V-Twin as french law restricts HP to 106 max.). I would have loved to see H.D. buy them back to put the engine in a Buell. Just search the web for their Charade, Cafe Racer, Black Magic and Scrambler, they did some cool things. Not as innovative as a Buell but very "exotic" and almost affordable. | ||
| Dave |
It is sort of odd that they didn't give it a name, but the tubers really didn't have names did they? S1 Lightning S2 Thunderbolt S3 Thunderbolt X1 Lightning M2 Cyclone ????? DAve | ||
| Ma1 |
HD is getting ready to build a new engine factory in the Milwaukee suburbs. Why? Because their current facilities, Capitol Drive and Kansas City, are at Max capacity. Thus HD does not have the capacity or physical plant to produce the Helicon engine at this time. Morover, you are talking about tooling for a start up project with a possible production goal of maybe 2-4000 a year for several years, with no garuntee of sales success for a radical new product. Rotax, on the other hand, has excess capacity, thanks to the downturn in Watercraft sales, and Aprillas move to take their engine program in house. So they were more than happy to take on this project AT THE REQUEST OF HD. Who do you think paid for all this? So Rotax/HD/Buell develops this new platform, with Rotax producing the 1st generation engine. THis minimizes HDs risk, and perhaps increases salability to squids who won't look at anything with HD on it. (Few of whom even realize that Buell is an HD subsidiary.) Should the bike then prove successful, in 3 or 4 years, when HDs new facility is up and running, HD can then take the program in house with a 2nd generation design, as Aprilla has done. BTW, why has no one anywhere I've seen even acknowledged HDs role in giving Buell everything they've asked for, once they proved they could make a salable product? | ||
| Crusty |
BTW, why has no one anywhere I've seen even acknowledged HDs role in giving Buell everything they've asked for, once they proved they could make a salable product? For the same reasons that no one ever acknowledges how much good AMF did for Harley. |
