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     Davegess |
You all need to relax about these test time. It would be wonderful if they were turning the fasted laps but the reality is they have less money, less practice time and less total development time. There are very new bikes. The way you run a test like this is start with a baseline, run as hard as you can and then change something you think will make you faster like, shorten the swingarm 2 mm. The run hard again. If it works you are faster if not you are slower. Finding out was does not help is as useful as finding out what does work. If you have endless amounts of money yo can have multiple bikes all set up just a bit differently and discover things faster. I don't think EBR has endless money; some other do. If you can afford two bikes per rider you setup bike A as your baseline and bike is B has the first change you want to try. You hammer bike A to get a baseline time and come back in. B is warmed up and ready you go hammer that while the crew turns A into C with yet another change. Repeat. It is very possible to learn many things that will make you faster but never have all of them on the same bike so you times don't come down but you learn, I can brake harder with X, I can accelerate better with Y, i can turn faster with W. when you get a chance to put them altogether you are faster. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb1125r |
it says in the web page that the ebr 1190rs is 389lbs dry, the bmw s1000rr is also 389 dry | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb1125r |
here is a suggestion to be fair to all. there are 12 races, manufacturers are yamaha suzuki ktm ebr kawasaki bmw 6 brands each get 2 races in season. the teams would have to use the manufacturer engine. this woudl show who is the best racer at each event. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| 99buellx1 |
That would be spec class racing, and that is available in the XR1200 series. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Vagelis46 |
So since the 1190 has no electronics, there are 2 basic conclusions : 1. The 1190 is doing really well , to be so close at the top. The platform looks good/ 2. It will be very hard to actually beat the top bikes that are running advanced electronics. I do not know much about AMA, but in WSBK the electronic package makes a big difference. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bob_thompson |
There is one "fix" here. As in DSB the cc's really did not matter as they based their fairness on H/P/ and weight but added weight to the 1125's. I believe they should impose a weight limit but then stick to it providing a limit on H.P. and never mind the cc's and not impose adding weight to larger cc bikes. H.P. to weight ratio is the most fair IMHO. And as we know H.P. is computed on torque AND rpm's so no advantage there to the inlines that rev. to 18,000 rpm's. Then its all up to the riders. I would think NASCAR would advise AMA on that as its now part of that organization and thats what they do. NASCAR is really competitive now-a-days. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
AMA provided a quote from Danny yesterday.
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| Blake |
Best times from the two days. Danny and Jake didn't run the final two test intervals. Looks like Jordan Suzuki is on rails at Homestead! Best Lap Times Of Test:
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| Bads1 |
That kinda sums up bit Blake. Maybe electronics are in the 1190 future. Maybe not this year but maybe a Bazzaz unit will be in play?? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
That is who Jordan is using this year for the first time. Seems to be working well for them Dana | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Jordan was using Bazzaz last year also. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
I am mistaken. I thought I read a press release stating them beginning to use them. "I was wrong" something some on this board can not say. HA | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
They might of had some announcement I don't know. I do know the Bazzaz unit was on Bens and Rogers bike last year though. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Svh |
I looked at it again after your other post and you were correct. It was a press release saying they were using them this year once again. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb1125r |
let me get this clear guys. ou are sayign the suzuki and yamaha teams are using electronics and the ebr bikes are not! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Sam, I've gotten to know a couple of the guys over at Jordans camp. Rode with them even couple bike nites. Got to see the bikes and ask some questions. My bike has even been looked over by one of them. Great guys and local. Most of you may not know but Jordans race team headquarters is about 1/2 mile from EBR's Headquarters. Yes thats right also in East Troy. They are also known as Gemeni motorsports. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Court |
Gemini . . . as in "Gemini TWINS". Interesting background. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9er |
Blake, thanks for posting up those times. I think those are stellar times given the lack of TC and quick shift on the EBR. Attack kawi's bike had so much electronics that all the rider had to do was point it in the right direction. EBR put their technology in the bike itself not electronic add on's. Let the boys get the bike dialed in and you'll see the positions and lap times you want to see. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
XB, by "electronics" we mean high end software and hardware to do things like traction control, tire life management, fuel management, wheelie control, etc. They can be as "simple" as the factory stuff on the BMW, through something as sophisticated as something that uses GPS, has custom programming for every turn of the track and the specific tires and conditions. The 1190's being raced do not have either kind of traction control at the current time. From a "technology tipping point" standpoint, I would say we are very close. the very best electronic systems can probably match the very best riders under the best circumstances, and make fewer mistakes the rest of the time. But they are insanely expensive, like $100,000 and up. The worst systems are getting decent for the street, but would get in the way of a really good rider (like Danny, Geoff, or Shawn). Sooner or later, the technology will probably win, and you would no more think of riding without traction control than you would think of riding without front brakes. Racing is almost there already... (Message edited by reepicheep on March 22, 2012) (Message edited by reepicheep on March 22, 2012) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Thanks Court I knew the spelling was wrong just Lazy to fix.lol | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb1125r |
thanks Reep, that was very educational | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb1125r |
in this case then to be fair no one should use this kind of electronics, or the one that use electronics should add 5 lbs more to the bike. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
XB, Even though Electronics are beneficial to racing and winning Hayes last year won without running them. This year hes running them. I have to believe he'd do better. He actually didn't win the championship last year very Convincingly. Blake actually won more races but tied in podiums. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
I see where you are coming from XB. I've thought the same thing. The conclusion I have come to is along the following lines... I want racing to be first and foremost fun. So lots of different types of bikes in close races, so engineering tweaks, pit team tweaks, or rider tweaks all have the chance to matter. It's racing, and I want to see a race! Secondly, I want racing to make street bikes better. I want EBR blowing up perfectly good motorcycles on the track so I can't blow them up on the street. Thats where I kinda like the electronics. Traction control (pretty good traction control in fact) is a reality on high end street bikes now (BMW, Ducati, and even Kawasaki). So I like the idea of it playing a role in racing. But where it's a $100,000 system, that has to be custom programmed for a specific corner at a specific track running a specific tire at a specific temperature? pfffft. That's just racing robots (which I'd be OK with as well, but it should be a different class, and it should involve projectile weapons  ) To the degree racing just becomes about who can sit there and set the most $100 bills on fire, that's no fun. And to the degree tech can't trickle down to the average user (custom blueprinted motors, unobtainable materials, technology that can't scale to the street), that's no fun either. Right now, its unknown if the best riders do best with or without a traction control system. I think it's close, and riders are going back and forth trying with and without them. But that's now. I expect that over the next few years, you will have to have it to compete, and I hope that as it gets more necessary to compete it also gets more affordable to buy. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Hootowl |
Price cap this year in DSB and next year in superbike. Everything related to the system, including tuning software, hardware, cables, sensors, and tools, is covered by the cap. OEM parts however are not included. This could mean that street bikes will be fitted with more sophisticated electronics in order to reduce the number of parts they have to replace when racing. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Reep, Actually team Yosh Suzuki's electronics are 40 grand. Said and done with software and paying two Geek guru's to maintain 4 bikes between two riders its costing them 300 grand a year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Reepicheep |
That's a chunk of coin to keep a rear wheel from sliding. I wonder what would happen if I built a short rang GPS jammer and brought it to Mid Ohio? How advanced are the AMA Superbike level electronics? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bads1 |
Bill, yeah lots of money but it just isn't traction control. It wheelie control,entire engine management,brake's.... pretty much everything. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Xb9er |
they should outlaw all these electronics because it takes the racer out of the race....to a point. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Imonabuss |
IMHO the teams should be forced to run stock traction control. That would actually make the factories improve the production stuff. Now they just sell something cheap and crude to the customers, and then pretend it's what the racers are using. But I don't write the rules. |
